Unforgivable sin

[Bronzesnake]

Can a person be forgiven once they find themselves in Hell? If not, then isn't the sin of not accepting Jesus before they went to Hell an unpardonable sin? or is there more than one "unpardonable sin" depending on the "context"?

Bronzesnake

[BigD]

Bronzesnake quote

Can a person be forgiven once they find themselves in Hell? If not, then isn't the sin of not accepting Jesus before they went to Hell an unpardonable sin? or is there more than one "unpardonable sin" depending on the "context"

BigD
I agree, once a person finds themselves in hell it is too late to be forgiven. It isn't that they could not have been forgiven prior to death had they accepted Jesus.

Like I explained to you earlier Bronze. Before I became saved, according to you, I had committed the "unpardonable sin." So if my unbelief was "unpardonable," then there is no way that I can ever be pardoned, even if I became a believer.

In the context of Matthew 12:32 there is only one unpardonable sin that will not, and cannot be forgiven in "...this world" (age) (the age that Jesus was living), and "...the world (age) to come" (the age that the kingdom is established upon the earth).

Verse 31 says: "...ALL manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

The Pharisees committed the "unpardonable sin" that never can be forgiven when they accused Jesus of healing the man with a devil by the power of Beelzebut, the chief of the devils." THAT MY FRIEND IS THE "UNPARDONABLE SIN" OF MATTHEW 12:22-32." That's the sin that the Pharisees will NEVER, under any circumstances, be forgiven. If you, and any other, cannot see that, then I highly recommend that you all go back to school and take a reading comprehension course.

Like I have said. One to day cannot commit a sin that "cannot" be forgiven. There is a big difference between "cannot" and "will not."

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[Bronzesnake]

BigD quote...

 

Like I explained to you earlier Bronze. Before I became saved, according to you, I had committed the "unpardonable sin." So if my unbelief was "unpardonable," then there is no way that I can ever be pardoned, even if I became a believer

.

 That's not what I was saying at all my friend. I am saying, once you die, if you haven't accepted Jesus, it's too late to be forgiven. It's then an unpardonable sin. Unbelief becomes unpardonable the moment you die. You agree that there is only one unpardonable sin, so unless you can figure out a way for the sin I have described to be forgiven, then that's the one.

Bronzesnake

[nChrist]

BigD,

I just got reminded again why don't discuss things with you, and I won't be making the same mistake again. On your next statement of obvious false doctrine, I will simply post the bold truth and leave you talking with yourself.

There is nothing left of your argument but your own vanity. You know it and so does everyone else.

The Apostle Paul was a blasphemer. So, by your false doctrine that denies the CROSS, the Apostle Paul is unforgiven and in hell for eternity. The discussion is now beyond ridiculous, so I am going to leave you to argue with yourself.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

ALL sins are forgiven when a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

THE ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN IS REJECTION OF JESUS CHRIST UNTO PHYSICAL DEATH.

I'm thinking about buying you a rock so you won't be alone when you argue for your own vanity alone. Do you have a color preference?

You have the last word, and I'm fairly sure it will be more false doctrine.  Go back to the basics, and maybe you will understand it one day.

Moderator

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

[BigD]

Luckdogger asked:

A question is there a unforgivable sin and if so what is it or they.

sherkandogre responded

Technically there is.  Matthew 12:32 is the unforgivable sin.  "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."
My view isnt the most stable on this subject but im leaning to not apply to Christians.

BigD
All the responses that I have made go back to the 1st post on this thread and sherk's reply. My first response was to the subject of the "unforgivable sin"/"unpardonable sin" from the book "Basic Bible Doctrines" by Donald Webb. He address the entire subject in question from the context of Matthew 12:22-32. I am in total agreement with what he has written on those passages of Scripture, and am defending what he has written.

To the best of my knowledge I have NEVER said, or implied, that there is a sin that COULD NOT be forgiven. I am well aware of the fact that if one does not accept Jesus as their saviour, then that one WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN for rejecting the "free gift" of God's grace, and will be condemned to hell.

The only sin that WILL NOT be forgiven, when commited,  under any circumstances, to my knowledge, is found in Matthew 12:32 "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it SHALL be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, it SHALL NOT be forgiven him. meither in this world (age), meither in the word (age) to come." Can anyone show me Scripture that refutes Matthew 12:32. It is also my believe that this sin cannot be committed in this dispensation of grace.

The world (age) that Jesus lived in is the period in which John the Baptist, Jesus and the 12 preached "the gospel of the kingdom." With Isreal's rejection of their King and His Kingdom, the "gospel of the kingdom" has been interrupted and replaced by "the gospel of the grace of God." The world (age) to come is the period after the Chruch, the Body of Christ, is raptured, and "the gospel of the kingdom" will again be preached to all the world before the end come. The Chruch today, the Body of Christ, is not looking forward to a kingdom to be established here upon the earth.

While a person is in unbelief, that one is commiting a sin that is forgivable up until the moment that one dies. In the context of Matthew 12:22-32, I do not believe that the "unpardonable sin" can be committed in this dispensation of grace.

I REST MY CASE!

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[BigD]

BEP says:

The Apostle Paul was a blasphemer. So, by your false doctrine that denies the CROSS, the Apostle Paul is unforgiven and in hell for eternity. The discussion is now beyond ridiculous, so I am going to leave you to argue with yourself.

BigD responds:
I have NEVER said that or implied that. It is your FALSE assumption.

Bep quote...

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

BigD responds:
I BELIEVE THAT.

BEP quote...

ALL sins are forgiven when a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

BigD responds:
I BELIEVE THAT.

BEP quote...

THE ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN IS REJECTION OF JESUS CHRIST UNTO PHYSICAL DEATH.

BigD responds:
I would say it little different. Rejecting Jesus is FORGIVABLE up to the moment of one's death.

BEP continues:[/b]
[quoteI'm thinking about buying you a rock so you won't be alone when you argue for your own vanity alone. Do you have a color preference? :D

BigD answers:
How thoughtful of you. Would you please make it a bright YELLOW. That color would be a great reminder as to where I got it. Would you like my mailing address?

Also, I would like for you to correct me for any false doctrine that I post.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[Jemidon2004]

We tried. We explained. You decided not to listen. yet, now you ask for correction. We tried giving that a bit ago. I'm not about to start beating a dead horse again. I've read time and time again someone answering your posts, yet you continue to dis-regard what we've said. i see no sense in continuing to try to correct when the person being corrected won't listen. That's just my thoughts on the subject and I'm sure there are others on this forum who share my sentiments. God Bless

Joshua

[BigD]

Joshua:
Would you be so kind as to explain to me what you think that I do believe that you believe is so wrong. Maybe the others will help you out. I do PROMISE that I will respond to ALL charges.

It would be very helpful that when I am shown my error, that it will be substanuated with Scripture taken in context.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[cris]

Boy, are these posts ever confusing.  It looks as if everyone is misunderstanding everyone.  A bit more thinking on the part of the posters response might be helpful.  Is everyone reading the posts word by word, sentence by sentence, thinking about it, and then responding?

I'm going to add one thing:  Blasphemy is a forgivable sin but blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not a forgivable sin.  *Hello*




   

[Jemidon2004]

I have already told you, i see no sense in continuing dialogue that is unprofitable. Quit asking me to "correct" you now, when you failed to see it at an earlier time. If you don't know what i'm talking about, think about it and think hard. You have been shown the Scripture in "context" if you call it by me, Bronzesnake, BEP to mention a few. So we've tried to explain our stance to you to no avail. It's clear to me that you simply will not see our view. You say you will take our view into consideration...however, that is not the case, for when we post our view...you contend with it's not in context or in one such case, it's 'reading something into something else". I'm not saying this to beat you down or anything like that, however, I am making a few observations that i've seen over and over again. You aren't the first and I doubt you'll be the last. Continue in your doctrine if you wish. I will agree to disagree with you and let you go on your merry way. God Bless.

Joshua

[Evangelist]

Sounds to me like everyone is right, just everyone arguing for their own definition.

Since Jesus is not standing in front of us, in the flesh, and casting out demons, it is not possible to blaspheme God by attributing His power and work to the devil.

Any person who rejects Jesus is a sinner, and if they die, they go to hell. That is a CONDITION of sin, not an act of blasphemy.

[Mrs.Chosen]

do we believe that GOD has left us or did He not send the Holy Spirit to dwell with us here on earth. Now either He is here or He's not. I say GODTHEFATHERJESUSHOLYSPIRIT are one. So if the Holy Spirit is here then GOd is here. Now is the water and tress GOD's work? Does it show His power? Oh yes.
Is a baby still a mirical from GOD. Oh yes, trust me they are.
Does GOD still work His miricals on earth now? Meet one!! (ME).
So don't the Atheist go around saying all day every day that GOD's work is not his work? Don't they say it's mother nature and science. Mirical after mirical they still say He is not.
Look up the meaning of blaspheme in the context and I will tell you it is done today. GOD is here on earth today by His Holy Spirit. And if I am in Spirit and I am used by GOD and someone says "she is of the devil when she did this or that"
Now keep in mind that GOD is working through me...
what will you call this?
Just a thought.
Please keep an open mind. I always want to learn something new about GOD. That means sometimes letting go of my opinions and what I though to be true.
Also I leave it up to The Holy Spirit to teach me truth and not a mans book. Reading is good but The Spirit of GOD is who gives us truth!

I love this board!!

[asaph]

Technically there is.  Matthew 12:32 is the unforgivable sin.  "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."
My view isnt the most stable on this subject but im leaning to not apply to Christians.

Does this verse imply that some sins that are not forgiven in this age will be forgiven in the age to come? We know that blaspemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this age nor the age to come but what about unconfessed sins of a lesser nature than the blasphemy one? Does 1 Tim 5:24 apply?
24Some men's sins are open beforehand, going on to judgment; and in some men they follow after.
We know that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. But what if we do not confess a sin and then die, at the judgement what will happen? Will it be forgiven in the age to come? After all, we have eternal life. So are some sins forgiven in the age to come? Will there be some sort of chastisement at that time or is every one joyful and recieve an overcomer's award? Will some be ashamed before Him at His coming, saved, yet so as by fire? Will all hear "well done thou good and faithful servant"? Is the age to come forever or is it the 1000 year reign of Christ?
These are all questions that I am pondering? May the Lord give each of us understanding.
asaph

[BigD]

Silver

BigD, you continue to hold on to Donald Webb’s commentary on this subject, particularly to the fact that he says when Jesus spoke of “this age,” He was only referring to the age in which He was living.  

How can Mr. Webb and you come to this conclusion?  What defines the ages in the Matthew 12:31-32 passage?

BigD
EXCELLENT QUESTION Silver.

"This age" that Jesus is referring to in Matthew 12:32 is the age AT THAT PRESENT TIME.

When Jesus was physically upon the earth, the earth was in the prophetic times, and in those times the Law was in effect. So we can say, They were living in the age (dispensation) of the Law. In those prophetic times, the children of Israel were promised a King and an everlasting kingdom. The everlasting kingdom we know is the mellenial reign of Christ. That is "the ages to come" of the same verse. Jesus came to fulfill all the OT promises to the fathers (Romans 15:8).

Are we (members of the body of Christ), living in the same "age" that Jesus lived in? Are we under the Law? Are we looking forward to the mellenial kingdom upon the earth? The answer to all of the above is NO!!!

We are living in an age in which Paul speaks of in Ephesians 3:2-5 "If ye have heard of the dispensation (age) of the grace of God which is given to me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made know unto me the mystery: (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made know unto the sons of men, as it is NOW revealed unto his holy apostles and prephets by the Spirit:"

We are living in the "age (dispensation) of grace," which is outside the age of the Law.

The Law IS NOT in effect. ""Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances (LAW) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." (Colossians 2:14).

We are not looking for an earthly kingdom but a heavenly home. "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1Thess.4:16-17).

"For our converssation (citizenship - NIV) is in heaven: from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ" (Phillipians 3:20).

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, and hous not made with hands, eternal in the heavens" (2Cor.5:1).

This age (dispensation) in which we now live cannot be found in the prophetic scriptures and is a "(parenthetical)" period within the age (dispensation) of the Law.

In the "kingdom age" wich "is to come," the Law will again be in effect. We will have 12 disciples sitting on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. Jesus is coming back as "the Righteous Judge." Judges need laws to judge by.

We, members of the Body of Christ, do not and will
not live in either of the two ages mentioned in Matthew 12:32.

PLEASE Silver, do not read future revelations to Paul into the Gospels. Paul wasn't even saved during the time period of the Gospels.

It is when we mix LAW that was given to the children of Israel as their instructions in righteousness, with GRACE that was given for the instructions in righteousness for members of the Body of Christ, the Chruch for today, is when we get the confusion that is so prevelant in the Chruches today. Mixing Law and Grace, as one gospel/doctrine, only leads to confusion and denominations. LAW and GRACE are two distinct and different doctrines that can be found in the Bible.

Hope the above is helpful.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

[Evangelist]

We, members of the Body of Christ, do not and will
not live in either of the two ages mentioned in Matthew 12:32.

BigD:

At the time Jesus was speaking, there were (and are) three "ages" or dispensations left to come.
1. The Dispensation of Grace, which we are currently in. It qualifies therefore as *an* "age to come".

2. The Millennial Reign, when Jesus is sitting on the throne in Jerusalem administering the law. It qualifies as *an* "age to come". In accordance with scripture, when Jesus returns to this earth to establish His reign and rule, there are those who accompany Him....who are they?  They are the saints, those who have been redeemed, previously taken up to heaven by Him at the rapture, and includes all OT saints also who predated Him in death, and were "captivity led free."  In case you've forgotten, at the rapture the born again believer is "converted" in accordance with:
1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Please note the bold part refers to both the physical and the spiritual.


3. The Final Age (eternity), following the GWTJ, when a new heaven and new earth are created. This qualifies as *an* age to come. It will be populated by all redeemed, including "the Church".