Unforgivable sin

[Bronzesnake]

BigD quote...

 

Most definately agree with you that those who reject the "free gift" of God's grace will be condemned to hell.

So, that is an unforgivable sin then???
or, can we be forgiven for rejecting the free gift of God's grace?

Bronzesnake

[cris]

Thought I'd add in my 2 cents.

It seems to me if we attribute a miracle to Satan's power, when it was Christ (Holy Spirit) in a follower who performed the miracle, it's unforgivable because it would be blaspheming the Holy Spirit.  Even if we ask to be forgiven, it won't be, because God said it is an unforgivable sin. We really need to be very careful about what we say.  People who aren't saved aren't asking God to save them (forgive them), so they are going to hell if they die in that unsaved state.  If they ask God to save them (forgive them) God will do that.  Being unsaved is not an unforgivable sin or else not one of us could ever be saved.  Jesus was talking about 1 sin that was unforgivable-----blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.  I've wondered if any of those who crucified Christ truly ever blasphemed the Holy Spirit because Jesus said, "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."  Is there a possibility one HAS TO KNOW what they're doing in order to blaspheme the Holy Spirit?  If this be the case, then it must be why it's unforgivable.  Then again, Jesus asked the Father to forgive them, but we don't know if the Father did.  We assume He did, but we really don't know.  Kind of strange that Jesus forgave sins Himself in His 3 year ministry, but on the cross He asked the Father to forgive their sins.  I've often wondered about that.

Bottom line, there's only one sin that won't be forgiven even if we ask, but that sin isn't the only sin that sends us to hell; dying unsaved sends us there also.  It was forgivable while it was yet day, had we only asked.

 

 

[BigD]

BEP:
At the time that Jesus spoke the words found in Matthew 12:22-32 , the Cross WAS NOT IN VIEW and THE PURPOSE OF THE CROSS WAS YET UNKNOWN. It is not proper to read future revelation into a past event. That is a NO NO!!! I am sure that you don't read the Laws of Moses into the Garden of Eden, so why to you read what was revealed to the Apostle Paul into an event that happened several years after the what Jesus spoke in the above passages?

Without going to Paul's writings, SHOW ME me the purpose of the Cross in Matthew 12. While you are at it, SHOW ME where Jesus or the 12 ever preached the purpose of the Cross. YOU CAN'T DO IT, because the purpose of the Cross was still a secret/mystery.

1Cor.2:7,8 "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world (before creation) unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they know it, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE CRUCIFIED THE LORD OF GLORY."

The "unpardonable sin" CANNOT be committed in this dispensation of grace. If it can, [b/PLEASE SHOW ME[/b] what sin it is.

I do agree with you when you said: "There is only one law violation or sin that will result in eternal condemnation: REJECTION OF JESUS CHRIST AS LORD AND SAVIOUR!" However, that is not the "unpardonable sin" mentioned in Matthew 12:22-32

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[BigD]

BigD quote...

Most definately agree with you that those who reject the "free gift" of God's grace will be condemned to hell.

Bronzesnake quote...

So, that is an unforgivable sin then???
or, can we be forgiven for rejecting the free gift of God's grace?

BigD
There several years that I had rejected the "free gift" of God's grace. That didn't make it an "unforgivable sin."  Because, the years that I had rejected the "free gift" were forgiven me the moment that I placed my faith and trust in the Cross work of Christ for my salvation.

The "unpardonable/unforgivable sin", in the context of Matthew 12:22-32, CANNOT be committed in this dispensation of grace. If it can, SHOW ME what sin it is?

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[BigD]

Cris:
You comments were worth much more then 2 cents. I agree with what you posted.

Keep up the good work.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[Bronzesnake]

BigD quote...

Most definately agree with you that those who reject the "free gift" of God's grace will be condemned to hell.

Bronzesnake quote...

So, that is an unforgivable sin then???
or, can we be forgiven for rejecting the free gift of God's grace?

BigD
There several years that I had rejected the "free gift" of God's grace. That didn't make it an "unforgivable sin."  Because, the years that I had rejected the "free gift" were forgiven me the moment that I placed my faith and trust in the Cross work of Christ for my salvation.

The "unpardonable/unforgivable sin", in the context of Matthew 12:22-32, CANNOT be committed in this dispensation of grace. If it can, SHOW ME what sin it is?

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 That's a very dodgy answer my friend.

 You were forgiven because you accepted His free gift before He returned.
 Tell me...what happens to all those who have not accepted the free gift once Jesus returns? are they forgiven?
Be careful here my friend, I can provide very specific scriptures to show exactly what happens to these people.

Remember your own words before you answer my friend...

"Most definately agree with you that those who reject the "free gift" of God's grace will be condemned to hell"

Bronzesnake

 

[nChrist]

Two Minutes With The Bible - THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS


Feb 12

THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS

By Cornelius R. Stam

Some three thousand years ago, and about one thousand years before Christ, the Psalmist said:

"If Thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with Thee..." (Psa. 130:3,4). The Psalmist did not explain, however, upon what basis a just and holy God could forgive a guilty sinner. This was to be proclaimed one thousand years later by the Apostle Paul, himself once "a blasphemer, and a persecutor and injurious"; the "chief" of sinners, but forgiven and saved by the infinite grace of God (Tim. 1:13-15).

Preaching Christ at Antioch, in the province of Pisidia,

Paul declared:

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that THROUGH THIS MAN IS PREACHED UNTO YOU THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS, AND BY HIM ALL THAT BELIEVE ARE JUSTIFIED FROM ALL THINGS, FROM WHICH YE COULD NOT BE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW OF
MOSES" (Acts 13:38,39).

But even this does not fully answer our question, for we must still ask: On what basis does God forgive sins through "this Man"? The answer is: on the basis of His payment for our sins on Calvary’s cross. Thus the Apostle wrote to the Romans, explaining how we may be...

"...justified freely by His [God’s] grace, THROUGH THE REDEMPTION THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS" (Rom. 3:24).

Now, thank God, through Christ’s finished work, there is not a sinner who needs to remain unforgiven, for:

"In [Christ] we have redemption, through His blood, THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS ACCORDING TO THE RICHES OF HIS GRACE" (Eph. 1:7).

________________________

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[BigD]

BEP quote:

Brother, the answers to your questions are already posted in overwhelming detail. A repeat shouldn't be necessary for something this basic. Just look at all the information already posted.

BigD
Sorry friend, I cannot find what I asked you in prior postings. Would you PLEASE point out which ones you think did? I don't think you will because you can't.

BEP

You are focused on a portion of Scripture prior to the CROSS. Look in the same general area for JESUS describing the impossibility of a rich man entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Take it out of context, and it would be impossible for rich people to be saved. Put it in context, and you will see that what is impossible without Jesus is POSSIBLE IN CHRIST.

BigD
It appears to me that the Pharisees committed the "unpardonable sin" prior to the Cross. Therefore the Cross had noting to do with it. If it did, EXPLAIN IT TO ME

I have checked out Matthew 19:23; Mark 10:23; and Luke 18:24, and I can't find where it says that "it would be impossible for rich people to be saved." That, my friend, is reading the verses in context.

BEP quote

Your argument only makes sense if THE CROSS NEVER HAPPENED. However, the CROSS DID HAPPEN, so you can choose to believe the promises of GOD or reject them. It's just as simple as that. I choose to believe the promises of Almighty God without doubt of any kind.

BigD
BEP, the promises to Israel prior to the Cross and the promises to the members of the Body of Christ are not the same. In Matthew 12, God is still dealing with Israel as His favorite people. Again, the Pharisees committed the "unpardonable sin" prior to the Cross. WHY do you read the Cross into it?

BEP quote

Brother, one of the most basic MUSTS for studying the Holy Bible is applying BEFORE THE CROSS vs. AFTER THE CROSS! If you realize the VAST differences and changes, you wouldn't be asking these questions. For a saved person, the BLOOD OF JESUS is either sufficient for the forgiveness of sins or not. Almighty God and the Holy Bible proclaim that the BLOOD OF JESUS is all sufficient for the forgiveness of sins. You can choose to believe or reject that absolute fact! I choose to believe it without any doubts at all.

BigD
If you had taken your own advice, you would not have read AFTER THE CROSS]/b] into BEFORE THE CROSS.

BEP quote

If you don't choose to believe the promises of God, we will simply have to agree to disagree. I'll simply tell you to study your Bible and leave it at that.

.

BigD
I do believe ALL the promise that God has made. He will keep the promises He made with Israel and the different promises He made to members of the Body of Christ.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[BigD]

Bronzesnake:
PLEASE explain to me WHY my answer to you was dodgy.

You seem to keep saying that rejection of the "free gift" of God's grace is unforgivable. It that is true, then one that accepts that "free gift" some time later, it  has already been declared unforgivable and meaningless. I DON'T THINK SO!

Also keep in mind that we are discussing the "unpardonable sin" in the context of Matthew 12:22-32. What was the unpardonable sin that the Pharisees commited? Is it the same today? Doesn't verse 31 say: "Wherefore I say unto you. ALL manner of sin and blasphemy  shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghsost shall not be forgiven unto men."

You still don't like to anwwer my questions do you?

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[BigD]

BEP:
I am in full agreement with Pastor Stam's article on the FORGIVENESS OF SINS. However, I has nothing to do with the "unpardonable sin" of Matthew 12:22-32.

I have met and have gotten to know Pastor Stam way back in 1964. Have all of his writings. You should study them and learn how to "rightly divide" the Word of Truth.

Just wish you would understand the "unpardonable sin" of Matthew 12 in the context it was written.

Maybe the following article by Pastor Win Johnson will help you understand it in its proper context. It was take from a past issue of the Beraen Searchlight.

The Unpardonable Sin
By Pastor Win Johnson

"I'm afraid I've committed the unpardonable sin." This grim statement climaxed a telephone conversation the writer recently had with a lady in our city. Among other things she related how an accusing conscience tormented her "day and night" till she was almost at the point of mental derangement. Realizing that the Bible speaks about such a sin, and being unable to arrive at the knowledge of sins forgiven, this lady, like many others, concluded that she must have committed the "unpardonable sin," and consequently, would never be forgiven.

It was the writer's joy and privilege to point out the Scriptural, as well as dispensational solution, to her distressing problem.

Matthew 12:31,32 states: "Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world [age], neither in the world to come."

These words of warning came from the lips of the Son of God while He walked among men in His earthly ministry. They were addressed to the religious leaders of the nation Israel. Their blasphemy against Him even when He hung on the Cross was forgiven by the Father in answer to the prayer, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34).

But when at Pentecost, Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, announced the return of Messiah on the condition of Israel's national repentance, these leaders instigated a persecution that reached its climax in the stoning of Stephen, a godly man, "full of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 7:54-60). It was here that the "unpardonable sin" was committed by Israel's leaders. The Third Person of the Trinity had been blasphemed and His pleadings through the Apostles ignored. This sin will never be forgiven.

In this age it is blessedly true that "we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace" (Eph. 1:7). Though all sin is unpardoned till it is forgiven, it is not unpardonable. Christ died for all sin. The penalty has been paid and God now offers eternal life as a gift to be received by faith. Have you received this gift? Do you know the joy of sins forgiven? You can! "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved" (Acts 16:31 cf. I Cor. 15:1-4).

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[Mrs.Chosen]

Wow,
This is so unbelievable. The whole point of this conversation is
"is there a sin that you can commit that you will not be forgiven for".
The Answer to that is yes. The one sin is to reject Christ and die in that state of rejection.
The thing to understand here is that blaspheme has more than one meaning and it has to be understood what it is meaning in each context that it is in.
If you look the word blaspheme up in a Bible Dictionary you will find it has a few meanings. But when you study it in the context of Matt.12:31-32 the idea is this
"The Pharisees slander the Holy Spirit by knowledgeably attributing His work to the devil, thus commiting the unpardonable sin. The sin was not an act of impulse or ignorance, but the result of a continued and willful rejection of the truth concerning Jesus. It was a sin againts spiritual knowledge, for they has ample evidence of the truth from the words and deeds of Jesus. In deliberately choosing to insult the Spirit, they forfeited His ministry in their lives and will not be forgiven." New King James Study Bible (Thomas Nelson)

Now this act is actualy done by the Atheist today because Jesus has still been perfoming miricals and the evidance of GOD is His word. Jesus said He is the Word. Yet Atheist give credit to science and big bangs and so forth.(a form of blaspheme) Now can they beforgiven. Yes they can if they ask God and Accept Jesus and the plan of salvation. But if they shall die in that state, hell is their home.
So with all that said the whole thing is
DON'T BE CAUGHT DEAD WITHOUT JESUS!!

[Bronzesnake]

Wow,
This is so unbelievable. The whole point of this conversation is
"is there a sin that you can commit that you will not be forgiven for".
The Answer to that is yes. The one sin is to reject Christ and die in that state of rejection.
The thing to understand here is that blaspheme has more than one meaning and it has to be understood what it is meaning in each context that it is in.
If you look the word blaspheme up in a Bible Dictionary you will find it has a few meanings. But when you study it in the context of Matt.12:31-32 the idea is this
"The Pharisees slander the Holy Spirit by knowledgeably attributing His work to the devil, thus commiting the unpardonable sin. The sin was not an act of impulse or ignorance, but the result of a continued and willful rejection of the truth concerning Jesus. It was a sin againts spiritual knowledge, for they has ample evidence of the truth from the words and deeds of Jesus. In deliberately choosing to insult the Spirit, they forfeited His ministry in their lives and will not be forgiven." New King James Study Bible (Thomas Nelson)

Now this act is actualy done by the Atheist today because Jesus has still been perfoming miricals and the evidance of GOD is His word. Jesus said He is the Word. Yet Atheist give credit to science and big bangs and so forth.(a form of blaspheme) Now can they beforgiven. Yes they can if they ask God and Accept Jesus and the plan of salvation. But if they shall die in that state, hell is their home.
So with all that said the whole thing is
DON'T BE CAUGHT DEAD WITHOUT JESUS!!

Amen Lisa!
I've been trying to tell my friend BigD that exact same thing.
He either can't or won't listen to the simple truth...as you so aptly stated... "The Answer to that is yes. The one sin is to reject Christ and die in that state of rejection."

Let me make a prophetic prediction...

BigD will reject this Truth and say the following..."EXPLAIN IT TO ME" or "SHOW ME" however, he won't know it when he sees it or believe it when he hears it!   even after acknowledging the truth, when he said the following...

 "Most definately agree with you that those who reject the "free gift" of God's grace will be condemned to hell"

He's an enigma wraped inside a mystery!

By the way...welcome to C.U. Lisa!

Bronzesnake

[Jemidon2004]

ATTA GIRL!!! WHOOTA!!! I AM SO HAPPY YOU POSTED THAT!!! Man, i re-read over it...talk about blunt...I hope BigD see's this truth. You hit the nail right on the head. I'm glad you posted this evening. My name is Joshua and i'm 17...glad to meet you. And welcome to C.U.!!

*Jumps up and down and runs around*

Joshua

[Mrs.Chosen]

Well I do thank you guys.


And to everyone else I just pray that everyone is teachable
because we all (especialy me) learn something
new everyday!! Amen.

[BigD]

The "unpardonable sin," in the context of Matthew 12:22-32, once committed, can NEVER be for given under any circumstances. However if one never accepts the "free gift" of God's grace, that one will die and be condemned to eternal damnation never being forgiven of that. But, while that person is in unbelief, that sin is still pardonable/forgsivenable and can be forgiven. All one has to do is accept that "free gift" of God's grace.

One today cannot commit the "unpardonable sin" in the context of Matthew 12:22-32, for the reasons that Donald Webb has stated in his book, which I had posted earlier.

A sin that can be forgiven IS NOT unforgivable or unpardonable. This has been my contention all along.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!