Rapture

[BigD]

Part 2:

"Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come except the departure come first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

There is abundant evidence for this rendering, as we shall now proceed to prove.

APOSTASIA AND APOSTASY

First, our English word apostasy, is not an exact equivalent of the Greek apostasia. The English word apostasy means rebellion, or revolt, against a faith once embraced, but the Greek apostasia means departure, nothing more.

Actually the Greek noun apostasia occurs only once more in the New Testament, namely in Acts 21:21, where Paul is informed of the report that he has taught "all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses."

We suggest that even here the word "depart" would be a closer synonym to the rendering "forsake" than would the word "apostatize." To forsake is not exactly to revolt or rebel against, and this is what our English word apostasy means. Furthermore, in this case we are told that it was reported that Paul urged these Jews to "forsake," or "depart from" Moses, and surely Paul did not urge them toany revolt against Moses or his writings. He merely pointed out that now, by grace,they were free from the Law, that the Law had been fulfilled for them by Christ.

In any case, the Record does not say that Paul had taught the Jews who lived among the Gentiles to "forsake" Moses. It says only that the Jews in Judaea had been "informed" that this was the case. This rumor was probably an exaggeration of what he actually had done in teaching that the Law had now been fulfilled by Christ and that believers are delivered from its curse (Gal. 3:13).

But while the noun apostasia occurs only twice in the New Testament, the root verb from which the noun is derived occurs 15 times, and its meaning is easy to determine. We refer to the verb aphisteemi. So that there may be no mistake, we present here a list of every New Testament use of this verb.

Luke 2:37: "departed not from the temple."

Luke 4:13: "the devil…departed from Him."

Luke 8:13: "in time of temptation fall away."

Luke 13:27: "Depart from Me, all ye workers of iniquity."

Acts 5:37: "drew away much people after him."

Acts 5:38: "refrain from these men."

Acts 12:10: "the angel departed from him."

Acts 15:38: "who departed from them from Pamphilia."

Acts 19:9: "he departed from them."

Acts 22:29: "they departed from him."

II Cor. 12:8:"I besought the Lord... that it might depart from me."

I Tim. 4: 1: "some shall depart from the faith."

I Tim. 6:5: "from such withdraw thyself."

II Tim. 2:19: "depart from iniquity."

Heb. 3:12: "in departing from the living God."

First, the reader should observe carefully that in 11 out of these 15 occurrences the verb in question is rendered depart, departed, or departing, while in the other four close synonyms are used.

Further, only three out of the 15 are concerned with departure from the truth. And in all three it is clearly stated that the departure is "from the faith" (I Tim. 4:1), "from the living God" (Heb. 3:12), and from that which was "for a while believed"

(Luke 8:13), leaving the meaning of the verb aphisteemi itself simply depart -- nothing more -- in all 15 occurrences.

In Luke 4:13 we read that the devil “departed' from Christ. In Acts 12:10 an angel "departs" from Peter. In Acts 15:38 we read that a man had "departed" from Paul and Barnabas. In II Cor. 12:8 we read of Paul's thrice-repeated prayer that a thorn might "depart," or be removed, from his flesh. And so with all the others. Indeed, in two of the 15 cases above the very opposite of apostasy or departure from the truth is involved. In I Tim. 6:5 Timothy is told to depart ("withdraw thyself") from men who are "destitute of the truth," while in II Tim. 2:19 all who "name the name of Christ" are exhorted to "depart from iniquity." Surely these were not instructions to apostatize.

Thus, bear it well in mind, aphisteemi, the root verb of the Greek apostasia, means to depart -- nothing more. Later on we will discuss the particular "departure" referred to in II Thes. 2:3, but first the rendering "a falling away," as compared with "the departure," must be further discussed.

THE AUTHORIZED VERSION AND ITS PREDECESSORS >(SNIP)<

WHAT DEPARTURE? No "falling away" or "apostasy" had been previously mentioned in either epistle, but in the whole of I Thessalonians and also of II Thessalonians up to this point, the Apostle's very theme had been the rapture of the members of the Body of Christ. Thus here in II Thes. 2:3 he must be referring to "the departure" of the Church to be with Christ. This falls naturally into place with the whole context, for why should Paul exhort these believers not to be "shaken" or "troubled," merely because the apostasy must precede the Tribulation? This would be no comfort. Further, how could they recognize "the" apostasy, much less "a" falling away when

CONCLUSION

1. The word apostasia and its root verb aphisteemi, do not, used by themselves, mean “apostasy" and “apostatize." They mean “departure" and “depart," nothing more.

2. II Thes. 2:3 states in the Greek, that the day of the Lord will not come “except the departure come first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

3. The term “the departure," with the definite article, denotes previous reference.

4. Paul had written to the Thessalonians in his previous letter about the departure of the members of Christ's Body from this earth (I Thes. 4:16,17) and had even disassociated this from the prophesied “day of the Lord" with the use of the word, “But" in I Thes. 5:1. He had also referred to this “departure" in the phrase ”our gathering together unto Him," in II Thes. 2:1. Indeed, this was the basis for his appeal to the Thessalonians not to be “shaken" or “troubled" by those who would lead them to believe that “the day of the Lord" had already begun. Also, he had “told" them about “these things" while he was yet with them (II Thes. 2:5).

5. “The man of sin" must also be manifested before the “day of the Lord" can come (II Thes. 2:3,4)52 and he cannot be manifested until “the departure" takes place “first."

6. Thus, in addition to many clear proofs that the rapture of the Body will precede the Tribulation we also have a passage which “explicitly affirms" this.

“WHEREFORE COMFORT ONE ANOTHER…” (I Thes. 4:18).

“BE NOT SOON SHAKEN IN MIND, OR… TROUBLED…” (II Thes. 2:2).

“LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU BY ANY MEANS…” (II Thes. 2:3).

Evangelist said:
FWIW BigD, don't go overboard trying to separate and render meaningless the interlocking roles (and words spoken) played by ALL the characters of the bible.  Such compartmentalization means simply that the Word is then NOT rightly divided....but is chopped up into separate rooms that certainly DON'T fit together..."a building fitly framed."

BigD:
If you mean by "compartmentalize" that I make a distinction bewtween the promises and the innstructions in righteousness,  that God gave to Moses for the children of Israel, through the Law, and the promises and instructions in righteousness to members of the Body of Christ that God gave to Paul through the preaching of "the gospel of the GRACE of God, and the revelation of "the MYSTERY, then I am guilty. That is what I call "rightly dividing the word of truth."

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Much and Love The Lord!

[BigD]

Bronzesnake said:
I'm done here.

BigD:
I WILL MISS YOU MY FIREND

Can't believe that you are comparing my KJV with the Bible with that of the NWT version. Just wondering if you are using something different or that was that just a "straw dummy."

God Bless my friend.

Enjoy the book, and I hope you will e-mail me your comments on it. Would really like to know.

Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[BigD]

Jemidon2004

If your saying that God set the nation of Israel aside way back in the OT times, that would put the Jew and Gentile on equal footing way back then. There wouldn't be a distinction or "middle wall of partition" between them. The Gentiles were "set aside" back in Genesis 11, at the Tower of Bable.

It my deduction above is true, then I must ask: Why did God send Jesus "to the lost sheep of the house (nation) of Isreal?" There were only Jews and proselytes present at Pentecost (Acts 2:10) when God sent the Holy Ghost?

Further, in the OT times, for a Gentile to serve the true and living God, that Gentile had to become a Jew and place themselves under the Laws of Moses. Why would that be if God had set the nation of Israel aside.

Also, when Christ came to earth to start His earthly ministry, Why would he instruct His disciples to go only "to the lost sheep of the house (nation) of Israel? Were those "set aside" Jews better the the "set aside" Gentiles?

Why did it take so long for us to learn what Paul says in Ephesians 2:11-13?

I would appreciate it if you would explain some of my questions to that I can better understand your view.

Being you don't like beggers, PLEASE do not consider this begging.

You posted:

Sorry man, i'm not one for beggers. However I did see you resort to the ddd...and i found it distasteful however I didn't comment on it because I didn't feel it was my place to comment on something as childish as that. But please, don't lower yourself to begging, it doesn't become you...you're too stubborn to do that. GB

BigD
We Dutchmen are better know to be "hard headed." As the old saying goes: "You will never hurt a dutchman by hitting him on the head."

By nature, I am not a begger. If fact, most people that know me consider me "real easy going." Also, I am not know for being a "quitter" or "one that backs down." Those charactoristics were probably developed from my life experiences.

Coming out of the "depression" (early 30's). and from a large poor family (11 of us), we had to strive (work) for everything we got. At time we even had to fight to keep what little we had.

As a youn man, I fought in the "Golden Gloves, and then, a few years later, I went into the Army. Served there for 23 years. Started out as a machine gunner during the Korean War and also served twice in Viet Nam. Two movies were made from action that I was actively participated in.

As a boxer and military man I learned that the best offense is the best defense. Also, I discovered that there are times when one must do things that are not desirable in order to accomplish one's goals, even if we do not like or normally do them. That is the reason I tried the "ddd." Do I like to "beg?" NO!!! However, I tried that in hopes of getting desired results.

Even the Apostle Paul said, words to the effect, that he would do almost eanything if only he could win just a few. He became what ever it took to do that.

Think of me what you will, but at least you know where I am coming from.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[Jemidon2004]

Maybe the results you desire, are right in front of you, then again maybe they are invisible to you. Such is God's way of dealings. I made the earlier statement on the DDD, because I did find it distasteful, however, I don't think any less of you. I've seen enough of your posts to kknow that you are pretty easygoing. As am I. However, resorting to a ddd for the sake of something you desire really surprised me. You are right, sometimes things are done to reach our desired goals...however if we don't wait for God, we'll end up screwing things up, which is why i'm stepping out of the discussion and only watching, because I have contributed what the Lord wishes me to contribute. i feel no point contributing to this thread anymore because, I have said what the Lord wanted me to say. I feel that in my spirit, so no, i will not answer your questions until the Lord prompts me to do so. God Bless

Joshua

[BigD]

Jemidon2004:
Sometimes I feel like the Ethiopian eunuch, in Acts 8, when Philip asked him if he understood what he was reading. His reply was: "How can I except some man should guide me?"

Guess there just isn't anyone around anymore to look to for guidance from Scripture.

As you wish.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[Bronzesnake]

Bronzesnake said:
I'm done here.

BigD:
I WILL MISS YOU MY FIREND

Can't believe that you are comparing my KJV with the Bible with that of the NWT version. Just wondering if you are using something different or that was that just a "straw dummy."

 Why am I not surprised that you completely misunderstood what I  was actually saying...Please my friend, read it again. I plainly said that the NWT was a sham - I also clearly stated that the KJV was virtually pure when compared to the earliest ancient biblical manuscripts.

 I was making a statement about people who blindly follow false doctrine, even when the scriptures are clearly opposed to it.

 Take care my brother...

 Bronzesnake

[BigD]

Bronze:
Oh, I understood your comments about the JW's alright. The reason I said what I did was because, if you will recall, after something I had posted that did come from my Bible and you disagreed with, your made the comment: "That came straight from BigD's Bible." As if I was using I were using a corrupt Bible.

Its no biggie.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[Marc]

Hey, people—check THIS out!

 


Assessing Current Events

When I sit back and take a good, hard look current events, I marvel that anyone could miss the signs of Jesus Christ's soon coming. We live in a world where the United States is considered socially backward because it takes issue with the idea of homosexual marriage.

It is a world in which a Catholic archbishop can cause headlines by referring to homosexuality as "epidemic."

It is a world where people find no contradiction in demanding that everybody else conform to their narrow views because the view of the majority makes them feel like outsiders.

A world in which the prevailing legal view is that there is a "God-given right" for the God-haters to not be offended by the mention of "God" in public.

A Houston, Texas judge ruled that a Bible in a courthouse might give the impression Houston's Harris County has a preference for Christianity. A Bible in a courthouse! Is he kidding?

Up seems to be down and black seems to be white. For the first time in the history of mankind, the main topic of debate is over a question no previous generation would even entertain. The question baffling this generation is not "where did I come from?" or, "Is there an afterlife?" That doesn't seem to be as important as whether marriage should be between a man and a woman.

Meanwhile, the Earth itself seems to be in rebellion. The Asian mega-quake that changed geography caused the planet to vibrate like a tuning fork. It knocked the planet far enough off its axis to momentarily change time – and this may only be the beginning.

There are warnings of a sudden shift in the Earth's poles, a reversal of the Earth's magnetic fields and the fear of the onset of a new Ice Age.

Environmentalists warn that global warming will raise the world's sea levels, resulting the catastrophic flooding and loss of life. Many scientists warn that the shift of mass from the concentration of solid ice caps due to melting and being distributed in the oceans could further exacerbate the Earth's wobbling axis.

Meanwhile, the sun continues to convulse, sending out massive showers of debris into the solar system, while irradiating the Earth with unprecedented doses of solar radiation. It is, according to some prominent Russian scientists, the most active period of solar activity in 8,000 years.

The past year broke all the records in terms of natural disasters. This year began with earthquakes, floods, unseasonably cold weather in some places, unseasonably warm in others, and nobody seems to be able to explain what is going on.

The economy is at once both robust and growing and teetering on the edge of catastrophe. Economists warn that it would take just one push in the right direction at the right time for the whole house of cards to come collapsing around our ears.

Meanwhile, NASA just spent hundreds of millions to launch a spacecraft designed to impact with a comet in deep space to see if it is possible to deflect a killer asteroid. Does anyone else beside me feel like he is in a Stephen King movie?

The Bible prophets describes the last days as a period of ever-increasing wars and natural disasters. Jesus, Himself, predicted that there would be wars and rumors of wars, great earthquakes, plagues of deadly diseases, cataclysmic weather changes and famine just before His return. He likened all these things to birth pangs. He said that as the time approached, they would increase in both frequency and intensity.

He spoke of signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. He warned of the distress of nations, saying things would grow so frightening that men's hearts would fail them for fear, just in looking at what is coming.

But all these terrors are just the beginning of a period of catastrophe and death so profound that Jesus, Himself, said no time in history has ever been like it before – nor ever will be again.

Amidst all the fear and uncertainty, however, Jesus promised great hope. He said that, just before the beginning of the 7-year period, He would come again and receive to Himself all those who put their faith in Him and receive the gift of pardon He paid for with His own blood.

We see the shadows of predicted events that tell us the time known as the Tribulation Period is almost upon us. To those who understand the prophecy of the Bible that means time is extremely short. Do not put off receiving the gift of pardon that Jesus purchased for you and put your name on it. Don't get left behind. The consequences of that will be beyond anything you can imagine.

[BUTCHA]

i guess no double dares on that..
nuk nuk

[Jemidon2004]

Give it a few days...you may get one, you may not...what we see in the future is often what we read of in the past...the phrase "history repeats itself" fits good here...however I pray that it doesn't. God Bless

Joshua

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I would agree quickly that there are a host of events that appear to indicate either a preview of the end times of this age or the actual unfolding of Bible prophecy before our very eyes right now. Many would laugh and call anyone who had these thoughts as another dooms day lunatic. However, we don't have any date setters here, but we do have quite a few who study Bible prophecy. Very few Christians dismiss Bible prophecies as tales, and it is getting harder by the day to ignore all of the things that are happening in the world each day. The lost just laugh, but Christians are beginning to pay attention to Bible prophecies.

Regardless of Bible prophecy, every Christian should have a burning desire to witness to the lost and yield to JESUS for HIS use. If one wanted to dismiss the daily things happening in the world, it would still be time to witness and yield with every day GOD gives us. I would ask every Christian to feel an urgency in this matter, regardless of what you feel about Bible prophecy. If you have a burden on your heart for a lost family member, a friend, or people you don't even know, act on that burden. Pray each time before you do that God guides and directs your words and efforts. End times or not, JESUS has work for each of us to do every day.

My personal thoughts are that the end times are either near or upon us. It will be a great day of rejoicing when JESUS comes for us. In the meantime, we can KEEP LOOKING UP! and yield to HIS Will.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 19:14  Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

[Evangelist]

Couldn't help it...this is an ad I've been running based on a series from the paper.



Surprisingly    there's not too many that want to hear about it!

[nChrist]

Evangelist,

My Brother, stand fast and keep up the good fight. There will be many sweet Christians praying for your ministry.

We know what the Holy Bible says about itching ears and the refusal of many to endure sound doctrine. Brother, please remember there are still many who love the things of the LORD and HIS WORD. You are an instrument for HIS USE, and HIS WORK through you will never go to waste.

Brother, I simply pray that God will continue to use you to strengthen HIS children and show the lost a path to JESUS. Brother, your path will be difficult if you do HIS WILL.

Dear LORD, we ask for strength and guidance to do Your Will every day that you give us to serve You. LORD, only You can overcome our adversaries, and we know that You Will at Your appointed time. LORD, until then, we ask for courage, strength, and Your Grace to stand for You and keep standing with every day You give us in this short life. We ask these things in the precious name of JESUS, our Lord and Saviour forever.  Amen

Love In Christ,
Tom

Jude 1:3  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

[gary cook]

When I died ,I saw the city heading here .it was in some other spacve .As there were no stars .But too ,that was in 1976 ,but I look for it everyday .Thinking today ,may be the day .But I believe it must be close .And I plan on leaving ,when it gets here .Also I plan to spend the 7 years recieving my job to rule with HIm .Get my new name and new body .And my crown .And plan on seeing you [people there .meet my brothers and sisters from old .And do a lot of singing .I hope my body comes with some good voice sounds .As all I can do now ?is make a joyful noise .

[BigD]

It is my contention that in this dispensation of grace, there are no OT "end time" prophesies being fulfilled. However, I do believe that events happening in this dispensation are leading to the fulfillment of OT "ent time" prophesies.

Being this dispensation cannot be found in prophesy, there are no prophesies that are foretold for this period.

Paul in his second letter to Timothy does speak "last days" in chapter 3:1-9. This, I do not believe is referring to the "last days" of OT prophesies, but the last days of this dispensation of grace.

My basis for contending that is based upon 1Thess.5:1-9.

In 2Thess.2:2, it appears that Paul is writing to the Thessalonians because of a letter, or letters, had actually been forged to make it appear that he (Paul) believed that the Rapture would follow the Tribulation. But we know Paul is speaking of the rapture because in vers 1 he says: "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ; and by our gathering together unto Him" (the rapture) in verse 1.

Many believe, as I do, that Paul expected to be raptured in his lifetime. In verse 9 he says "the mystery of iniquity doth already work, but is under restrain (ver. 7).

Also, it is my contention that the restrainer is the Church, the Body of Christ. Presently the Holy Spirit dwells and operates in the bdy of all believers. Once the Chruch is raptured, The Holy Spirit will still remain in the earth to draw others during the Tribulation, but the Holy Spirits operation through the Church will no longer exist.

I am in complete agreement with BEP and Evangelist that we should be constantly laboring to win others. As Paul says in Ephesians 5:14 "Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15 See then that ye walk circumpectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is."

If one thinks that the bad things are happening today, and there are, they are minor when compared to what will happen during the Great Tribulation.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!