Matt: 7:21-23

[MalkyEL]

cris wrote:
I've listened to Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, and some of the others who were mentioned and have to disagree about them preaching another gospel. No one is perfect (yet) and we all make mistakes.  I've read a couple of J. Meyer's books and they were a blessing to me.  I've also read some of Hinn's books-------------they blessed me, too.  I don't consider any of these books to be bad fruit.  They preached the Word of God.

nana:
When Paul said that satan comes masquerading as an angel of light, he was talking about those who would have an element of truth wrapped around deception.

When people like Hinn, Meyers, and the Crouches teach a taste of truth, that is the hook to get you to listen, to believe the lie.  satan has always spoken the truth with a twist [Eve].  This is the corrupt tree that Jesus is talking about in Matt 7:15-20.

If Hinn, Meyer, and the Crouches do not believe that Jesus is God Almighty, we are warned in God's Word to get away from them.  Jesus said - if you are not for Me, you are against Me.  You cannot believe a lie about Jesus - no matter what words come out of your mouth - you are preaching another gospel and do not have the truth.  It is contaminated and unholy.

shalom, nana

[gary cook]

The LORD SAID ?if they preach JESUS CHRIST and THE CROSS THEY ARE FRIEND .It does not mean they are BORN OF GOD .But we MUST BE VERY CAREFUL with our WORDS .THEY CAN GIVE US and others LIFE OR DEATH . THANK GOD ?HE LOOKS AT US AS KIDS or we would be in trouble a lot .AT least I would .I could havemade my name MR mistakes ,as  have made a lot .Hopefully ,I am starting to catch on ?

[nChrist]

Sister Nana,

I think that I might have a channel on my television with some of these pastors and ministries. I stay so busy with my own Bible studies and the forum that I really don't know much about them.

I am curious, as others might be, do you have a site you could share for this kind of information? What someone teaches, specifically about Jesus, would be KEY, CRITICAL information about that ministry. If they deny Jesus Christ as being Almighty God, they would be nothing but false teachers working against the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. Not only would they be false teachers, they would be committing blasphemy.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 6:10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

[cris]

I am curious, as others might be, do you have a site you could share for this kind of information? What someone teaches, specifically about Jesus, would be KEY, CRITICAL information about that ministry.

Hi BEP,

I'm partially experimenting with the quote thing.  We'll see how it works out.  Anyway Paul and Jan Crouch started Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) about 30 years ago.  It's 24/7 programming.  Obviously, some programs are better than others.  I started watching TBN over 20 years ago but have not watched it recently.  I used to love to watch "Praise the Lord" at 10 PM every night.  Jan and Paul always hosted but over the years things change.  Someone else hosts now and it varies as to who does.  I learned so much during those years and I NEVER EVER heard any of them say Jesus Christ was not God.  I wouldn't have watched TBN if they had.  At times, TBN kept me sane and focused on Jesus Christ.  I can't even begin to name all of the programs.  I think you could just type in TBN in your search window and get to their website from there.  TBN is on the DishSatellite Ch. 260 and on various cables.  Some of the names are Jack Hayford, Rod Parsley, Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Juniata Bynum, Dwight Thompson, Dottie Rambo, Mike Perky, Dr. Cherry, Myles Monroe, T.D. Jakes and many, many more.  Most of the people are pentecostal.  Jan and Paul both come from families who were missionaries and pentecostal.  Granted, Ken Copeland  has a daily program. He's a prosperity preacher.  I don't watch him because I don't believe in that teaching.  Yes, Paul and Jan believe in the gifts of the spirit, tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy, etc.

BEP-------a long time ago God told me to extract the good and let go of what wasn't.  Everyone disagrees with what someone else says on occasion.  I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

You will have to judge for yourself.  On Sunday (most of the day) they record and broadcast sermons from all over the U.S.  These are Baptist as well as Pentecostal and probably other denominations.

A word of warning, if you've never seen Jan Crouch, please don't let the pink hair turn you off.  There have been many negative comments about Jan's make-up and pink hair over the years but she has the heart of Jesus. She grows on people. She has just recently been cured of colon/lung cancer and gives God the glory for it.  BEP, she's about 68 years old and Paul is around 70.

cris

[MalkyEL]

Glad to be of help.  The first 3 links are specific to Benny Hinn, the next two to Joyce Meyer, and the last two links have many articles exposing false teachers, false teachings, and false prophecies [including the Crouches who promote this stuff on TBN like a flood of deception].

http://www.afcministry.com/Benny_Hinn.htm

http://www.myfortress.org/BennyHinn.html

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/benny_hinn.htm

http://www.myfortress.org/JoyceMeyer.html

http://www.pfo.org/preacher.htm

http://www.cephasministry.com/evangelists_2.html

http://www.seekgod.ca/index.htm

1 Tim 6:3 If anyone teaches otherwise, and does not consent to wholesome words (those of our Lord Jesus Christ), and to the doctrine according to godliness,
4 he is proud, knowing nothing. He is sick concerning doubts and arguments, from which comes envy, strife, evil speakings, evil suspicions,
5 meddling, of men whose minds have been corrupted and deprived of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness. Withdraw from such.

Shalom, nana

[nChrist]

Brother Cris,

I really don't care much about denominational tags and names, nor would I want doctrinal differences to be a negative influence on fellowship between brothers and sisters in Christ.

The Statement of Faith that Christians Unite uses for free services to thousands of Christian web sites around the world is an excellent measurement of who I call Brothers and Sisters in Christ:
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Statement of Faith
« on: April 23, 2004, 05:03:39 AM »      

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Christians Unite offers many free services to Christian Webmasters.  Examples include Christian Counters, Christian Guest Books, dynamic Christian content that changes at least daily, web site and address listing, and much more. You might find it interesting to browse through the host of web sites who share the statement of faith or belief below.  Agreement with the statement of faith or belief below is required for all free services offered by Christians Unite. If you are looking for just about anything Christian, you will most likely find what you want in the Christians Unite listings.


Statement of Faith for Free Christians Unite Services


1.  We can only accept entries from web sites that glorify Jesus Christ. If your web site is of a Christian nature then this must be made obvious. If your site is Christian owned, then it must contain a statement of faith, testimony, or presentation of the Gospel. There can be no contradiction of the other terms of this agreement.

2.  You must believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, is God, was born of a virgin, was crucified as punishment for the sins of mankind severally, was resurrected on the third day, ascended into heaven, and is coming back soon to rule and reign for evermore.

3.  You must believe that the only way to eternal salvation is through personal belief that the blood of Jesus is all-sufficient for the penalty of sin and an acceptance of him into your life as Lord and Saviour.

4.  You must believe in salvation by grace alone, and that salvation is immediate and eternal upon acceptance of Jesus as a one-time sacrifice for your sins, and not obtained through any works, sacraments, traditions or merits of our own.

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These are Salvation issues. I enjoy it when Christians can have pleasant discussions about differences, but I don't enjoy wars between Christians who share the same Lord and Saviour, JESUS CHRIST, Almighty God, THE CREATOR.

The Statement of Faith above is really a basic description of the Gospel of the Grace of God, THE GOOD NEWS! No two Christians have 100% agreement in everything. Simply put, if they share the same Critical Salvation Issues, they are Brothers and Sisters in Christ. Maybe someone else has a better term than "Critical Salvation Issues", but that's what I'll call it for lack of a better term. These are the issues that every Christian should boldly proclaim as the unquestioned truth every day of their lives. I would also argue, debate, and boldly contend for these issues with a completely clear conscience.

I would not have the same strong feelings about contending over doctrinal differences that can spoil friendship and fellowship between brothers and sisters in Christ. So, I don't want to be sucked into a war over gifts, tongues, and other "Non Critical Salvation Issues". I'm hoping and praying that I said this clearly and correctly, especially in a way that God would want me to. Denominational tags, labels, and ETC. mean nothing if you are already resting in the Mighty Hands of Jesus Christ and are members of the church not made with human hands, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST! Man's labels and tags will be left behind, useless, and meaningless when we go HOME to spend eternity with Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour forever.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Titus 2:11-14  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

[MalkyEL]

cris wrote:
a long time ago God told me to extract the good and let go of what wasn't.  Everyone disagrees with what someone else says on occasion.  I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

nana:
Nowhere in the Bible are we taught that God expects us to dig through the garbage can to pick out Histruth.  Jesus said if the tree is corrupt, no good fruit can come of it.  He was referring to false teachers and false prophets.  All of the names you listed are one or the other are both.  We are called to withdraw [1 Tim 6:3-5]

I an across an interesting article awhile back about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

It seems the saying originated back in the Victorian days when baths were only done once a year    One tub full of water for the whole family.  Dad started, then mom, and on down the list of kids - baby was always last.  By the time the baby was "bathed", the water was so dirty that you couldn't tell what was baby and what was dirty water.  Hence the saying, don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

You cannot mix truth with deception, you cannot make the unholy, holy - you only contaminate the truth.

Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean [thing] out of an unclean? not one.

Eze 44:23 And they shall teach my people [the difference] between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

1Cr 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

shalom, nana

[gary cook]

Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Because we must be born again to have the LORD know us as HIS .You see the power to do these works are in the name of JESUS CHRIST .That is how they did them .They had FAITH in the name .NOT in the LORD .They never in there heart Gave HIM GLORY and honor .Nor did these things for HIM .They were self righteous .Every thing they did was for them .
Because you see ,everything we do must be out of LOVE .That is why I believe it to be a sad thing ,for the body not to walk in power.Because the kingdom of heaven ,is with in your heart . And with out us fasting and letting the holy spirit lead us ?we are not where we could be as a people born of GOD .
Mat 5:6  Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
I think this vs.can be taken 2 fold .Fasting and a normal desire ,which our spirit has .

[cris]

BEP,

I offer my apology if I offended in any way.  My intention was to describe as clearly as possible my experience.  I believe much of what people say is taken out of context, but that's just my opinion.  All I can say is that I just praise God for His protection over me, if all of these people mentioned are so ungodly.  

I did read some of the information posted.  I read much of it awhile back.  Luke 6:42 came to mind about taking the log out of your own eye before taking the speck out of your brother's eye.  It's just my opinion, but I think articles like that constitute slander and judgmentalism.

Sorry I was ignorant about labels, too. I won't mention them again.

cris




   

[MalkyEL]

cris wrote:
It's just my opinion, but I think articles like that constitute slander and judgmentalism.

nana:
I am curious as to how the words that are quoted from these people themselves about Jesus Christ and His redemptive work on the cross that are in conflict with Biblical Truth, constitutes slander and judgmentalism.

The Bible instructs and mandates us to bring those who are in opposition to it's truth in the open and expose them as enemies of the Gospel - which Paul did time after time.

[gary cook]

I try to be very careful in judging other ? It is so dangerous to misjudge a person ? But if they preach JESUS CHRIST and the cross they are friend ,maybe they are not born again Who can say ? I did not get to here over night and I still have a ways to go . But as I watch people ,I see changes .I see many growing in TRUTH in a short time . The LORD works in different ways .No certain way . I see some very wonderful changes at different sites .It is really a blessing as some sites with little or NO help from me grow in great love .I really love to see this .We are all in a growing process.I hope I am /

[cris]

cris wrote:
It's just my opinion, but I think articles like that constitute slander and judgmentalism.

nana:
I am curious as to how the words that are quoted from these people themselves about Jesus Christ and His redemptive work on the cross that are in conflict with Biblical Truth, constitutes slander and judgmentalism.

The Bible instructs and mandates us to bring those who are in opposition to it's truth in the open and expose them as enemies of the Gospel - which Paul did time after time.

I guess my only answer is that if one was there, and one heard these things, then one must do whatever God commands one to do.  I wasn't there, and I didn't hear these things.  If I repeat the negative statements written about others, not having heard it directly, the bible would call me a gossip.  

I won't be making any further comments on this subject.





 

[MalkyEL]

cris wrote:
If I repeat the negative statements written about others, not having heard it directly, the bible would call me a gossip.  

nana:
So then, Paul was a gossip.  He wrote about other people exposing false teachers to the churches at large and told them to read his letters to others.  So for 2000 years we are reading gossip, if we go by that definition  

[Reba]

cris wrote:
If I repeat the negative statements written about others, not having heard it directly, the bible would call me a gossip.  

nana:
So then, Paul was a gossip.  He wrote about other people exposing false teachers to the churches at large and told them to read his letters to others.  So for 2000 years we are reading gossip, if we go by that definition  

WOW all of history is just gossip!  
 Cris i dont like  the TBN crowd BUT Tbn has been in part a blessing to Mom who is 81 and cant get out. If the local church was doing their job she wouldn't 'need' the likes of TBN.... so  i will 'throw rocks' at everyone

John 7:24

24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
KJV
 We should not judge Jan via her "pink hair" but we should be aware of Pauls "pay off" to his accuser. And the mass of funds they have collected. The same as we would for the small town preacher .... if ya heard he was stepping out on his wife the truth would show up and he should be judged... the scripture lies out a plan for such things.... Sandy Patti  is a wonderfull singer she is an adultous... both statments are true.  I am a sinner saved by grace... I do not want my life plastered across the TV.....

[MalkyEL]

For the last 2000 years, the disciples, including Paul have had their lives exposed on the pages of Scripture.  "Somehow" they have held up just fine.  Integrity, righteousness, and holy living before God is what counts.

1 Tim 5:20 Those who sin, rebuke before all, so that the rest also may fear.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.