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Shammu
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« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2004, 10:57:17 AM »

The first description of the Promised Land is made in Genesis 15:18-21, as “this land, from the river of Egypt, to the great river, the Euphrates—the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgagotcha2es and Jebusites.”  It is a piece of property that God often referred to as the “land of Canaan,” and its dimensions are best depicted in Num 34:1-12
Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “Command the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When you come into the land of Canaan, this is the land that shall fall to you as an inheritance-the land of Canaan to its boundaries.  Your southern border shall be from the Wilderness of Zin along the border of Edom; then your southern border shall extend eastward to the end of the Salt Sea; your border shall turn from the southern side of the Ascent of Akrabbim, continue to Zin, and be on the south of Kadesh Barnea; then it shall go on to Hazar Addar, and continue to Azmon; the border shall turn from Azmon to the Brook of Egypt, and it shall end at the Sea.  As for the western border, you shall have the Great Sea for a border; this shall be your western border.  And this shall be your northern border: From the Great Sea you shall mark out your border line to Mount Hor; from Mount Hor you shall mark out your border to the entrance of Hamath; then the direction of the border shall be toward Zedad; the border shall proceed to Ziphron, and it shall end at Hazar Enan. This shall be your northern border.  You shall mark out your eastern border from Hazar Enan to Shepham; the border shall go down from Shepham to Riblah on the east side of Ain; the border shall go down and reach to the eastern side of the Sea of Chinnereth; the border shall go down along the Jordan, and it shall end at the Salt Sea. This shall be your land with its surrounding boundaries.’”

Today’s Israel is a land that borders the Mediterranean Sea from Egypt to Lebanon; encompassing 20,770 square kilometers, of which 440 square kilometers are water, an area slightly smaller than the State of New Jersey.  Its borders run a length of 1,017 km, including Egypt-266 km, Gaza Strip-51 km, Jordan-238 km, Lebanon-79 km, Syria-76 km, and the West Bank-307 km.  Its lowest point is the Dead Sea, 408 meters below sea level; and its highest point is Har Meron, 1,208 meters above sea level.  It presently has between six and seven million residents.

The Promised Land was again avowed to the descendants of Jacob (Israelis), not to the descendants of Esau (Palestinians).  Even though Esau was Isaac’s firstborn son, God selected Jacob as the son through whom the covenant blessings and promises would come.

Romans 9:10-13And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."  As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
 
Jeremiah 31:31-34; Zechariah 13:1; Isaiah 59:20, 21 and Ezekiel 39:25-29 depicts the final coming of the Messiah to earth to set up His kingdom in the Promised Land with His chosen people Israel.  Although today’s “replacement theology” would deny Jews as God’s chosen people, to be substituted by Christians, the New Testament does not support this position.  The New Testament recognizes three classes—Jews, Gentiles and Christians (Jewish and Gentile).  The day is coming when the nation Israel will repent by recognizing Jesus Christ as its Messiah Romans 12:25-27.  In that day God’s covenant blessings and promises to Abraham will be totally fulfilled.
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« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2004, 12:40:14 PM »

Quote
Let me ask this way do the scriptures tell us wither or not they ever had all the land promised?

Reba, you said you wanted to discuss this, however you refuse to answer a simple question I have asked twice now.  You keep ignoring it by asking questions of your own.   This is a reasonable question.   Smiley

In hopes of moving along, I will answer yours out of turn... Cool

Scripturally, Israel did indeed become a nation as God promised them and blessed the world through messiah.  Whether or not they ever owned every inch that God promised is not entirely clear to me.  One thing is certain....if they never did, they certainly will eventually, unless Gods word is faulty.  If they did, that does not release God from His eternal covenant and promise to them.   It will be as God said and promised.  

NOW.....

Do you or do you not believe that what Ezekiel foretold about Israel's desolation is refering to what took place in 70 AD?

Yes or No?
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« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2004, 01:16:42 PM »

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Do you or do you not believe that what Ezekiel foretold about Israel's desolation is refering to what took place in 70 AD?

Yes or No?

Ezekiel 36:18,19 are prophetic, but the cross references(Ezek. 36:18 are ch. 16:36,38; 23:37 and Ezek. 36:19 are ch. 7:3; 18:30; 39:24) are an explanation from Ezekiel after being called by God, why their in captivity/exile. The Babylonians attacked Judah three times over a 20 year period and took captives.
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« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2004, 02:34:24 PM »

Has this ever happend?


Speaking to the House of Israel God says...

Eze 36:25  Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27  And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Grace and Peace!
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« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2004, 03:10:14 PM »

Reba -

You asked if Israel ever had all the land that God promised them. I don't believe they did. Here are some scriptures in Judges:

Judges 1:21 But the sons of Benjamin did not drive out the Jebusites who lived in Jerusalem; so the Jebusites have lived with the sons of Benjamin in Jerusalem to this day.
 27 But Manasseh did not take possession of Beth-shean and its villages, or Taanach and its villages, or the inhabitants of Dor and its villages, or the inhabitants of Ibleam and its villages, or the inhabitants of Megiddo and its villages; so the Canaanites persisted in living in that land. 28 It came about when Israel became strong, that they put the Canaanites to forced labor, but they did not drive them out completely. 29 Ephraim did not drive out the Canaanites who were living in Gezer; so the Canaanites lived in Gezer among them. 30 Zebulun did not drive out the inhabitants of Kitron, or the inhabitants of Nahalol; so the Canaanites lived among them and became subject to forced labor. 31 Asher did not drive out the inhabitants of Acco, or the inhabitants of Sidon, or of Ahlab, or of Achzib, or of Helbah, or of Aphik, or of Rehob. 32 So the Asherites lived among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land; for they did not drive them out. 33 Naphtali did not drive out the inhabitants of Beth-shemesh, or the inhabitants of Beth-anath, but lived among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land; and the inhabitants of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath became forced labor for them. 34 Then the Amorites forced the sons of Dan into the hill country, for they did not allow them to come down to the valley; 35 yet the Amorites persisted in living in Mount Heres, in Aijalon and in Shaalbim; but when the power of the house of Joseph grew strong, they became forced labor. 36 The border of the Amorites ran from the ascent of Akrabbim, from Sela and upward.

Judges 2:20 So the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and He said, "Because this nation has transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers and has not listened to My voice, 21 I also will no longer drive out before them any of the nations which Joshua left when he died, 22 in order to test Israel by them, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk in it as their fathers did, or not." 23 So the LORD allowed those nations to remain, not driving them out quickly; and He did not give them into the hand of Joshua. "


2Tim -

You asked:
Quote
Did God ever bless all the families of the earth through Abram and the promise?

Yes, He did. And you are living proof:

Gal. 3 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."

Well, there's my 2 cents.

Take care,
Chesed

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'Sing & be glad, Daughter of Zion! For behold, I am coming & I will dwell in your midst, says the Lord. Many nations will join themselves to the Lord on that day & they will become a people unto Me; & I will dwell in your midst. Then you will know that the Lord sent me to you.'
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« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2004, 05:18:19 PM »

I think both Reba and Myself understand the answers to the questions we ask.  This is all posturing in order to make our points.

No since in beating around the bush here.... Cheesy

Her end point is that Israel being a nation today has nothing to do with prophecy (I believe)....

My end point is that it does...

I have no problem agreeing to disagree.   Smiley    Our happiness does not come from proving anything, it comes from the Lord.  And we can all agree on that.   Wink

Grace and Peace!
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Tim

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« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2004, 08:56:42 PM »

I think both Reba and Myself understand the answers to the questions we ask.  This is all posturing in order to make our points.

No since in beating around the bush here.... Cheesy

Her end point is that Israel being a nation today has nothing to do with prophecy (I believe)....

My end point is that it does...

I have no problem agreeing to disagree.   Smiley    Our happiness does not come from proving anything, it comes from the Lord.  And we can all agree on that.   Wink

Grace and Peace!

Amen Tim

 I have just a minute  (busy time for the cook)  I looked in and found the posts to be many i will have to respond after the cooking is done Tongue

I saw the well stated answer to my question... thank you ...it really helps me to understand your posts...  

Have a wonderfull day  giving thanks unto the LORD
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« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2004, 09:44:05 AM »

Quote
I looked in and found the posts to be many i will have to respond after the cooking is done


If the length of time its taking for you respond is any indication of how much cooking you are doing....I know who's house I want to visit on Thanksgiving is.    Grin

Second day and STILL cooking....my oh my....I almost smell the yummies from here  Cool
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« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2004, 10:42:44 AM »

coconutcream pie   no box mixes  Grin

cinnimin rolls from stratch ...

 corn bread stuffing....

rich nothing fancy mashed taters

and all the rest of the trimings

i find it sinfull to ask for the caleries to be removed but one can hope...

I cook much better than i spell



Blessings
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« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2004, 12:28:22 PM »

coconutcream pie   no box mixes  Grin

cinnimin rolls from stratch ...

 corn bread stuffing....

rich nothing fancy mashed taters

and all the rest of the trimings

i find it sinfull to ask for the caleries to be removed but one can hope...

I cook much better than i spell

Blessings

As Mr BEP would say...."I gained weight from just reading the menu!"   Grin lol  

Sounds wonderful!
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Tim

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« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2004, 08:10:56 PM »

Reba -

You asked if Israel ever had all the land that God promised them. I don't believe they did. Here are some scriptures in Judges:

Judges 1:21 But the sons of Benjamin did not drive out the Jebusites who lived in Jerusalem; so the Jebusites have lived with the sons of Benjamin in Jerusalem to this day.
 27 But Manasseh did not take possession of Beth-shean and its villages, or Taanach and its villages, or the inhabitants of Dor and its villages, or the inhabitants of Ibleam and its villages, or the inhabitants of Megiddo and its villages; so the Canaanites persisted in living in that land. 28 It came about when Israel became strong, that they put the Canaanites to forced labor, but they did not drive them out completely. 29 Ephraim did not drive out the Canaanites who were living in Gezer; so the Canaanites lived in Gezer among them. 30 Zebulun did not drive out the inhabitants of Kitron, or the inhabitants of Nahalol; so the Canaanites lived among them and became subject to forced labor. 31 Asher did not drive out the inhabitants of Acco, or the inhabitants of Sidon, or of Ahlab, or of Achzib, or of Helbah, or of Aphik, or of Rehob. 32 So the Asherites lived among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land; for they did not drive them out. 33 Naphtali did not drive out the inhabitants of Beth-shemesh, or the inhabitants of Beth-anath, but lived among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land; and the inhabitants of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath became forced labor for them. 34 Then the Amorites forced the sons of Dan into the hill country, for they did not allow them to come down to the valley; 35 yet the Amorites persisted in living in Mount Heres, in Aijalon and in Shaalbim; but when the power of the house of Joseph grew strong, they became forced labor. 36 The border of the Amorites ran from the ascent of Akrabbim, from Sela and upward.

Judges 2:20 So the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and He said, "Because this nation has transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers and has not listened to My voice, 21 I also will no longer drive out before them any of the nations which Joshua left when he died, 22 in order to test Israel by them, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk in it as their fathers did, or not." 23 So the LORD allowed those nations to remain, not driving them out quickly; and He did not give them into the hand of Joshua. "


2Tim -

You asked:
Quote
Did God ever bless all the families of the earth through Abram and the promise?

Yes, He did. And you are living proof:

Gal. 3 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."

Well, there's my 2 cents.

Take care,
Chesed


Thanks Chesed your input is welcomed Tim knew this was a loaded question form past post. Not letting you know this would be unfare...   here is a scripture answer to my question...
Josh 21:43-45

43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
KJV
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Reba
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« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2004, 08:12:43 PM »

From what is foretold in Eze, can I assume we both agree that IT is refering to what took place in 70 AD?    I think we are on the same page here, but I want to be sure before I move ahead.

 Smiley

Did God ever bless all the families of the earth through Abram and the promise?

Sorry i missed this one .... Yup   the short answer is Jesus...
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Reba
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« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2004, 08:13:53 PM »

Quote
Let me ask this way do the scriptures tell us wither or not they ever had all the land promised?

Reba, you said you wanted to discuss this, however you refuse to answer a simple question I have asked twice now.  You keep ignoring it by asking questions of your own.   This is a reasonable question.   Smiley

In hopes of moving along, I will answer yours out of turn... Cool

Scripturally, Israel did indeed become a nation as God promised them and blessed the world through messiah.  Whether or not they ever owned every inch that God promised is not entirely clear to me.  One thing is certain....if they never did, they certainly will eventually, unless Gods word is faulty.  If they did, that does not release God from His eternal covenant and promise to them.   It will be as God said and promised.  

NOW.....

Do you or do you not believe that what Ezekiel foretold about Israel's desolation is refering to what took place in 70 AD?

Yes or No?

YES
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« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2004, 08:56:32 PM »

Hope you had a great thanksgiving....got any leftovers?   Cheesy
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Tim

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« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2004, 09:23:52 AM »

Thanks and yours? We are down to soup but soup.. guess i will make some biscuts.....
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