Am I Going to Heaven ?

[Brother Love]

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance; against such there is no law" (Gal. 5:22,23).

The "fruit of the Spirit" is that combination of graces
evidenced in the lives of believers who "walk in the Spirit."

Let us never make the mistake of supposing that "the
Spirit," in Gal. 5:22,23, refers to "the spirit of man which is
in him" (I Cor. 2:11). It refers rather to the Holy Spirit, the
Spirit of God, who indwells believers. The spiritual virtues
listed above do not spring from any goodness in us, but from
the Spirit of God dwelling within.

Next, we should observe that these graces are not the
product of human effort. The passage above declares that
they are fruit, and fruit is the natural product of life and
growth. Indeed, "the fruit of the Spirit" is here contrasted
with "the works of the flesh" (Vers. 19-21), and these are all
bad!

Finally, it is a remarkable fact that the graces which the
Holy Spirit produces in yielded believers are certainly not
those which the world admires.

The world admires self-confidence, self-respect, self-made
men, intellectual prowess, personal magnetism, authority,
etc., while the Spirit produces "love, joy, peace, longsuffer-
ing, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance."
But consider the difference. A man may have self-
confidence, intellectual acumen, political or other power—
and he may still be very difficult to live with, but not so
with the virtues which the Spirit produces. Of those who
possess these graces the Apostle says: "Against such there
is no law."

Oh Brother Thank You and Amen!

Brother Love

[ollie]

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance; against such there is no law" (Gal. 5:22,23).

The "fruit of the Spirit" is that combination of graces
evidenced in the lives of believers who "walk in the Spirit."

Let us never make the mistake of supposing that "the
Spirit," in Gal. 5:22,23, refers to "the spirit of man which is
in him" (I Cor. 2:11). It refers rather to the Holy Spirit, the
Spirit of God, who indwells believers. The spiritual virtues
listed above do not spring from any goodness in us, but from
the Spirit of God dwelling within.

How does a believer obtain this indwelling? One hears the word and believes. When does the Holy Spirit come to dwell within one? How does one know it is in him?

Next, we should observe that these graces are not the
product of human effort. The passage above declares that
they are fruit, and fruit is the natural product of life and
growth. Indeed, "the fruit of the Spirit" is here contrasted
with "the works of the flesh" (Vers. 19-21), and these are all
bad!

If the fruit of the spirit is because of the indwelling Holy Spirit working in one, then is the work of the flesh because of another kind of spirit working in one? Does one have any control of himself in Christ at all? Does any one have control of himself working in evil at all?

Why does one hear the good news of Jesus Christ and decide to accept Him and live accordingly? What is controling this choice decision? The Holy Spirit? Does one receive the Spirit before believing and it is the Spirit that causes belief and the life in Christ? Is there scripture for such a happening?

Can one not walk in the Spirit by just giving himself to God's word and being obedient to God?  Being God's and living accordingly is then walking in the Spirit?

[Petro]

Ollie,

Good questions..  the Bible answers all of them.

 posted by Ollie
How does a believer obtain this indwelling? One hears the word and believes.

Not exactly, One hears the word and obeys.

If you go to Genesis 12, Abram was 75 years old when God appeared mto him, the first time, and told to depart to a place He would show him, here is the account;

1  ..............Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee:
2  And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3  And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4  So Abram departed,

God, made no promises, no covenant, nothing but I will make you agreat nation, and bless you, and all the families of the earth shall be blessed in in you.   And all the scriptures say, is Abram departed.

Heb 11, says this;

8  By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9  By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10  For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

He obeyed God, not having yet believed Him, I believe it was simply trust, which Abram placed on the words of God.

The scriptures don't tell us, he believed God, until God appeared to him  again at Gen 15:1-6 ; verse 6  "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

Acts 5
29  Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30  The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31  Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32  And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.  The Him is this verse refers to God the Father, from the previous verses.

This is a fuflfillment, of Deut 18:18-19, at the end of 19  .........I will require it of him.

When does the Holy Spirit come to dwell within one?

From what Peter and the other Apostles at Acts 5, above tell us, it occurs when one obeys God,

What is it that must be obeyed??

Paul made it clear at Acts 17:30, that God commands every man everywhere to repent and to believe in Jesus, whom He raised from the dead and, has appointed to be the Judge of the living and the dead.

How does one know it is in him?

It is a personal, witness, which no man receives accept he whomsoever the Son will reveal.

Jhn 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18  I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

And;

Lk 10
21  ............I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him. (Mat 11:27, Lk 10:22)  (Please note this verse; ".......whomsoever ther Son will reveal Him.", is speaking of the Father; the Son reveals the Father)


Verse 21, is speaking of grown men, that have to become as babes, that is to say, they must simply believe as children believe, what is told to them of things they know nothing about neither understand, they simply accept it as fact.
(this doen't mean babes are born without sin, it is simply speaking of natural charisteristic trait, all babes possess, before they begin to excersize the natural tendencies of of guile in lieing and sinning.

Conclusion;

Unless God the Father is revealed by the Son to a sinner, how can that sinner, obey the Father, or even hear His word spoken to him, by the Son.?

God Bless,
Petro

[ollie]

Quote from Petro,

"Ollie,"

"Good questions..  the Bible answers all of them.

"Not exactly, One hears the word and obeys."


Acts 5:28.  Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
 29.  Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
 30.  The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
 31.  Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
 32.  And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Romans 6:17.  But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
 18.  Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


Romans 10:15.  And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
 16.  [/b]But they have not all obeyed the gospel.[/b] For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
 17.  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


 Galatians 3:1.  O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
 2.  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
 3.  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


 2 Thessalonians 1:7.  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
 8.  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


Hebrews 5:9.  And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


1 Peter 3:1.  Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the
wives;


1 Peter 4:17.  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?



 



Thanks, for your thoughts and the scriptures.

I hope others will post some thoughts on my questions also.


Blessed is the one that God calls,
Love in Christ,
Ollie

[Petro]

Your welcome Ollie,

Nows, I will try to show how, one comes to obey; it is not, brought about by anything other than revelation of Gods Word to the sinner, and it ultimately is simply agreeing with God, that his word of truth., and this is what draws the confession, which produces the Faith by the Grace and Mercy of God, that He might get the Glory.

I am not sure if I can put all the scriptures together (some you will recognize, just by the words, these I won't spend time on) for these questions, since sometimes, I have other questions myself, when asking similar Q's, to myself.

 posted by Ollie,
If the fruit of the spirit is because of the indwelling Holy Spirit working in one, then is the work of the flesh because of another kind of spirit working in one?

It could be, for instance deception, can be of such a magnitude, that it deceives the person who believes they are of God, to the point that they believe they are led by his spirit,  and the things they do, they are doing God a service (such as Paul) when he killed and persecuted Christians, in the name of God. And how about those of Mt 7:21-23.

The works of the flesh are manifested according to  Gal 5:19-21;
22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

The next verse, gives the impression,  one can live in the spirit, but not walk in it, this is why it exhorts, those the live in the Spirit to also, Walk in ther Spirit.

25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Does one have any control of himself in Christ at all?
 Does any one have control of himself working in evil at all?

The Spirit empowers the believer to live a life glorifying God,  Rom 7, thru 8:14, Paul makes the case for, the choice being of those who are children of God.
They can live in the flesh, or be led by the Spirit.

Why does one hear the good news of Jesus Christ and decide to accept Him and live accordingly?

God the Spirit working in the person, drawing them, to breakdown their resistance to the Gospel of Grace.

What is controling this choice decision?

God who knows the heart of man, and knows the disposition of man's heart, and whether that heart is inclined to trust what the word of God, has to say about the sinfullness of the person, whom the Spirit is working to convict of sin, it is a process, whereby, the Spirit draws out of that person a confession, wherein, the person agrees with God's word, that all the things revealed to him, by the Spirit of truth about himself are true, this is done by revelation to revelation during this process, (just like it began with Abram, who first trusted God at his word, before he believed), the end being saving faith in Gods own sacrifice of his Lamb.

Man's willingnes to trust the truth of Gods word, leads man, to obey the coimmand to repent, he cannot uintil, God thre Spirit reveals to him, the hopeless state in which he finds himself, this can only be revaled to him by the Spirit and only when this man, agrees with God he is a sinner bound for an eternity in hell (separation from God), only then when this man sees this will he obey god's command, willingly, and surrender, then same Spirit giving him, the Faith, thru the operation of Grace, to believe in Jesus, whom God raised from the dead for his propitiation.

Some may call, agreeing with God, that thery are sinners, as a work, but it is only out of sinful pride, they would dare state it, but if they remember the hour of their conversion, and we could see it, it would be a different story, evidenced by their tears of repentance. And I tell you if there were no tears, them I would re examine myself. Because it is one thing to say, Jesus died for  sinners, but altogether a different matter, to understand He died for ME.

This is why, I have always, argued against free will, man does not have it, and the ability to decide, isn't to believe as much as to agree with the Word of God and what it has to say about them.

The Holy Spirit? Does one receive the Spirit before believing and it is the Spirit that causes belief and the life in Christ? Is there scripture for such a happening?

Eph 1
12  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

One cannot believe unless it is given them to believe (Phil1:29), and it is by Faith, one believes to the saving of the soul so,  according to these scriptures, the process which began when the Spirit began to draw you towards Him, ends when you are given to the Son, by the Father, and are sealed by the same Spirit which began the work in you, and who will continue, the work of conforming you to the image of His dear Son. (Rom 9:27-30)

Can one not walk in the Spirit by just giving himself to God's word and being obedient to God?

You ask:
Can one not walk in the Spirit by just giving himself to God's word and being obedient to God?

Not sure what you are asking... Gal 5

16  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Being God's and living accordingly is then walking in the Spirit?

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Rom 8:14)

This then, is the work, which Christians produce,

Gal 6
3  For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
4  But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another
5  For every man shall bear his own burden.

Here is the conclusion;

It stands to reason, that if Gods word is the truth of truths, and everything else are lies, then one can conclude, that when all arguing and excuses have been overcome by the truth, the sinner, who has been drawen, little by little to it, will come to the end of his rope of excuses and arguments, coming to that fork in the road, where one road leads to eternal life and the other to eternal damnation, and if the sinner is honest with himself (because this is really the nut of the matter)  he will agree with the truth of Gods word, and confess he is a sinner in need of repentance, and confess he is a sinner, who cannot do anything about his situation, and at that moment of truth, he throws himself at the mercy of God, who does not reject a repent sinner.

Rom 11
6  But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7  By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8  By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

The motivating factor in all this is that sinner is fear, since this sinner sees, the Sovereign Creator God as able to not only kill the body, but after having done this,  able to cast the soul and the body into hell. (Mat 10:28, Lk 12:4-5)

Blessings,

Petro

[Petro]

And finally, allow me this last word;

Obedience is always guided by one's conscience.

And this is what scripture says;

Remember that the sealing of the Holy Spirit, is that Baptism spoken of by John the Baptist (Jhn 1:33)

And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.



1 Pet 3
18  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Here is the example scripture gives us..

21  The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

God Bless,

Petro

[Ambassador4Christ]

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? (Jer 17:9).

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" This statement contains more wisdom than the majority of mankind is willing to acknowledge. Man's wisdom says, "Know thyself," but God says no man can know what really lies within his heart.

History has proven that man, by nature, is depraved and every kind of wickedness dwells within his heart. Even when we think we are acting out of pure motives, many times we are not even aware of the lust that is within our heart, causing us to do what we are doing so as to obtain a hidden goal. If we were to print a word picture of man, I'm sure we would picture his good-nes. Yet, when God painted a word picture of man He showed anything but goodness. Notice what God says about man in Romans 1:24-32. We do not want to even read of these activities, much less acknowledge that these qualities lurk within our own hearts.

It is because of man's fallen nature, which was received from Adam, that we have these wicked characteristics within us, just waiting for an opportunity to express themselves. It is only the power of the New Nature, which we receive at the moment of salvation, that enables us to suppress these activities, as long as we walk in newness of life.

Paul says that our old nature was crucified with Christ (Romans 6:6) and then speaks of our need to "reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:11) We are to recognize that our old nature no longer has any authority over us so that we are free to "present our bodies a living sacrifice unto God" (Romans 12:1). This means to die to our selfish old self, allowing the Holy Spirit to motivate and direct our activities.

[Brother Love]

Scripture Reading:  11 Timothy 1:4


Our text for today makes it quite clear why Timothy was left in Ephesus: "That thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine." There was in Ephesus, as there will be in any Christ honoring church, efforts to promote false doctrine; to entice believers away from the truth.  With such there is to be no tolerance, but rather bold, outright confrontation.  Timothy was not to reason with the false teachers, nor was he to seek to establish a 'dialogue."  He was to charge them, that is, he was to give an authoritative commandment that the promotion of false doctrine must stop.

Many complain that such an approach to the ministry is narrow minded, and to that charge, faithful ministers of the Gospel must plead guilty. There is only "one faith" (Eph. 4:5).  If it is narrow minded to believe that God has spoken; if it is narrow minded to believe that God has given a distinctive message for the Dispensation of Grace; if it  is narrow minded to emphasize that we are expected to know what that message is; then let us all be narrow minded.

The reason many are unsettled regarding doctrine is that they do not understand where in the Bible doctrine is to be found.  Efforts to amalgamate the Kingdom to the Body and Law to Grace are futile.  Out of desperation, many determine that there are no absolutes anything goes.

When such an attitude is prevalent, the ministers of Satan thrive.  Paul warned the Corinthians of those who "corrupt"; the Galatians of those who "bewitch"; and the Colossians of those who "spoil."  Let us   also heed these warnings.

JON D. BEKEMEYER, Pastor


Brother Love

[Brother Love]

FAITHFULNESS TO OUR COMMISSION

In Paul's day, his "preaching of Jesus Christ according to
the revelation of the mystery" encountered opposition on
every hand. For faithfully proclaiming the glorious mes-
sage which had been committed to his trust, he was con-
stantly made to bear affliction and reproach. In one of his
earlier epistles we already find a long list of the perils and
persecutions he had by then been called upon to endure
(II Cor. 11:23-33) and this opposition, bitter and relentless,
continued throughout his ministry. In his last letter, writ-
ten from prison in Rome, he calls attention to the distinc-
tive character of his message, and adds:

"Wherein I suffer trouble as an evil doer, even unto bonds..."
(II Tim. 2:7-9).

The almost constant suffering to which the apostle of
grace was subjected naturally had its effect upon timid
souls. Some, who saw the truth and the glory of his mes-
sage, lacked the courage to stand with him in making it
known. Others, who had started with him were tempted
to and some did turn back. Of his first appearance before
Nero, the Apostle had to say:

"At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: pray God that it may not be laid to their charge" (II Tim. 4:16).

In the light of all this it is not strange that Paul should
write to Timothy:

"FOR GOD HATH NOT GIVEN US THE SPIRIT OF FEAR; BUT OF
POWER, AND OF LOVE, AND OF A SOUND MIND.

"BE NOT THOU THEREFORE ASHAMED OF THE TESTIMONY OF
OUR LORD, NOR OF ME HIS PRISONER; BUT BE THOU PARTAKER
OF THE AFFLICTIONS OF THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO THE POWER OF GOD" (II Tim. 1:7,8).

By Pastor C.R. Stam


Brother Love

P.S. I thought of you Brothe A4C when I read this. Keep The Faith Brother.

[Ambassador4Christ]

Thanks Brother Love, you posted two GRRRRRRRRREAT messages.

[Petro]

Bro Lo0ve,


Ref your post;  

 2 Tim 1:4

"Our text for today makes it quite clear why Timothy was left in Ephesus: "That thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine." There was in Ephesus, as there will be in any Christ honoring church, efforts to promote false doctrine; to entice believers away from the truth."



I wonder, if this was the reason, the door, was closed at the church at, Laodicea, Rev 3:20??

Is it perhaps, that other doctrines were being taught, which caused them, to be lukewarm vs 16,  and they said they had need of nothing because they were rich and increased in good, sounds like a certain teaching promoted in these days.

That reminds me of "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you," (2 Cor 6:17), and Jesus saying;

Rev 18
4  .....Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.


Good posts, Thanks

Petro

[Brother Love]

"And you, being dead in your sins...,hath He quickened together with Him, HAVING FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES" (Colossians 2:13).  And, by the same token, how could the neophyte student know that the "endure to the end" provision for salvation in Mark 13:13 refers only to the future tribulation period?  (ref. Revelations 20:4).  What blessed assurance is ours!  "For our citizenship is (present tense) in heaven."

Brother Love

[Brother Love]

Bro Lo0ve,


Ref your post;  

 2 Tim 1:4

"Our text for today makes it quite clear why Timothy was left in Ephesus: "That thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine." There was in Ephesus, as there will be in any Christ honoring church, efforts to promote false doctrine; to entice believers away from the truth."



I wonder, if this was the reason, the door, was closed at the church at, Laodicea, Rev 3:20??

Is it perhaps, that other doctrines were being taught, which caused them, to be lukewarm vs 16,  and they said they had need of nothing because they were rich and increased in good, sounds like a certain teaching promoted in these days.

That reminds me of "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you," (2 Cor 6:17), and Jesus saying;

Rev 18
4  .....Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.


Good posts, Thanks

Petro

Amen and your welcome Brother

Brother Love

[Ambassador4Christ]

 "For our citizenship is (present tense) in heaven."

Amen Brother Love

[Brother Love]

"For our citizenship is (present tense) in heaven."

Amen Brother Love

Amen A4C

Brother Love