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Ron66
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« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2005, 06:29:16 AM »

Is Bible aword of God?
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2005, 03:02:24 PM »

Is Bible aword of God?

No. It is not "a" word of God.
It is "The" word of God. All other "holy" books are deceits of satan, and yes, that includes the Koran. The Bible was written thousands of years ago, and it has been proven without a shadow of any doubt to be authentic and reliable. The Koran was written about five hundred years ago, it is an evil imitation which denies the Authority and Deity of Jesus.

Jesus is the only way to salvation, your Koran will not get you to Heaven, you are being deceived by the master liar satan.

Look at what kind of violence is perpetrated by people claiming to be followers of the Koran. Is that the way God wants us to treat our fellow brother's and sisters? Every time I look at a news story from a Muslim country, I see a mob of angry violent people running throught he streets like a pack of wild animals. This is evidence that God does not dwell in their hearts, satan lives there.
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aribeth
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« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2005, 04:33:12 AM »

Great idea BEP!  You should probably sticky this as well so it will always be at the top of the list.

 Smiley

Grace and Peace!

Oklahoma Howdy to 2nd Timothy,

Thanks brother - great idea. Consider that done.

I was just reflecting on some questions:

Why should I believe the Bible over other books?

Why do you think that Jesus Christ is real?

If there is a loving God, why would he condemn people to hell?

If there is a God, why did he create evil and allow such suffering, pain, and grief for His creation?

If there is a real God, why doesn't He simply make all people saved and good?

If God is real, why does He allow so many bad things to happen to Christians?

If God is real, wouldn't that make Him the author of all wars, disasters, mass starvation, and all of the other suffering of mankind?

Someone told me that God either hates us or loves us before we are ever born, so why should we try to learn about a God who has already made up His mind about us?

What do Christians have that I don't already have? I'm having fun without all the rules, so why bother?

If God is real, why doesn't he make all the preachers get their stories right and say the same thing?
____________________________

I think that some of the above questions and others would be very helpful here.

Love In Christ,
Tom







those are very intresting questions and some of those have ran through my head many of times especially when angry with something bad i have heard on the news. many people ask that including myself when i am angry. i do belive in god and jesus but when my temper got in the way many times i always asked some of those questions in which i know it's satan trying to get me to doubt and stop believing in god but it never happened because i always went back to god and believed when i thought about it.

there  were a  lot of times that i was so angry that i would even hurt myself and god by yelling and using profanity and putting down god so bad. i felt so bad those times i did that. i would actually cry because i hurt so bad in my heart after i wronged god. i could feel in my heart he was so sad after i did it. i hate hurting him like i did and not only did i hurt him but i hurt myself also so when i hear about bad things i always tell myself that god has a reason for everything because he does.

god has the answers to questions that no one else will know until their time has come.

i know that in my childhood i grew up with an alcoholic mother and a father who has nothing to do with me because he was married with kids when he had an affair with my mom. plus i been molested and all in my yoth. i grew up in a sad youth from being molested to being neglected and sometimes abused but i know that god wanted me to learn from all this and not be the way my mom or people in my youth were when it came to alcohol and drugs and all. so i stayed away from drugs and alcohol. i told msyelf that if i ever have kids i never want them raised of how i was raised. i never wanted to go to jail or prson like my mother did.

i had so many prayers answered especially the one were my mom would quit drinking and turn her life around.

she is not drinking anymore and we have a better relationship more then ever thanks to the lord. i forgave my mother and love her more then she could ever imagine. i know that she feels that she doesn't deserve forgiveness from me after the way i was brought up and raised but she's my mom and i love her and she knows that no matter what i will always love her no matter how she raised me. i'm proud to have a mother like her because she taught me what not to do or be when i grew up.


sorry i just felt like sharing this.
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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2005, 09:08:11 AM »

No need to apologize Jessica. Thank you for sharing that. God is so wonderful and helps through so very much.

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Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
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« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2005, 12:05:22 AM »

Hello Aribeth,

WELCOME!!


You are always welcome to share here. We enjoy praying for each other here, and I hope you enjoy Christians Unite.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 5:1-2 NASB  Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
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« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2005, 12:14:44 AM »

Why would God, condemn people to hell?

Often times, skeptics try and present an idea so that fairness and compassion necessitate that the Christian God cannot be real.  For example, they sometimes say that a truly loving God would not create people He knew would go to eternal punishment.  Of course this is only an opinion, but it is sometime raised nonetheless.  As one skeptic put it, "If God truly loves us (this sacrificial love you talk about) then he would simply say 'I do not want the child to be born'. He is in control and has that ability doesn't he? As I would not wish any of my children who I love to go through a life of agonizing pain." The main problem with such an approach is that it is overly simplistic and based on emotionalism, not scripture. Look at what the Word of God says.

When God made Adam, He made him good.  Adam had the freedom to choose to obey or disobey God.  Adam is the one who rebelled.  God did not make him rebel and God is not responsible for Adam's rebellion.  It would be like a parent having a child knowing that the child would eventually disobey the parent.  Does this means that the parent is responsible for the child's rebellion when it occurs because the parent knew it would happen?  Of course not.  Furthermore, if the parent has more children, does he/she not know that some children may very well turn out good and others bad?  Should the parents then not have children because some of them might turn out bad?  The skeptic, if he is consistent, would urge parents not to have any children at all lest some of them turn out bad.

But you skeptics might say, "But God knows for a fact who will be bad and good.  Why allow the people going to hell to be born in the first place?"  But, if this is the case and if God arranged it that no "bad" people were born, then we would all go to hell.  You see, Jesus is the only way to be forgiven of our sins.  His sacrifice on the cross was necessary in order to make it possible for us to be saved because everyone, "good" and "bad" has sinned.  If there were no "bad" people born, then there wouldn't be any "bad" people around who would have sent Jesus to the cross.  If that never happened, then we wouldn't be saved from our sins because Jesus would never have been unjustly condemned and His sacrifice would never have happened.

If someone says that it is wrong for God to allow someone to be born who will go to hell, then would he rather have God remove our freedom to rebel against Him so that no one can be blamed for sin?  If the critic says he only want those people born who go to heaven, then how are they truly free and how would that fulfill the ultimate plan of God to sacrifice His Son for the redemption of mankind?

God could have reasons for sending people to hell that we cannot understand.

God is just and always does what is right.  Therefore, sending people to hell is the right thing to do, especially when we understand that God is eternally holy and those who sin against God incur an infinite offense because the infinite God is the one who is offended.

The Bible simply tells us that people will go to hell.  They go there because they are not covered by the sacrifice of Christ.  Whether or not they are created or not does not effect the fact that sinners must be punished; otherwise, the holiness and righteousness of God mean nothing.

Resting in the hands, of jesus.
Bob

Leviticus 3:11  The priest shall burn it upon the altar, a food offering made by fire to the Lord.
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« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2006, 02:37:19 AM »

If there is a God, why did he create evil

At first it might seem that if God created all things then evil must have been created by God. However, there is an assumption here that needs to be cleared up. Evil is not a "thing" - like a rock or electricity. You can't have a jar of evil! Rather, evil is something that occurs, like running. Evil has no existence of its own - it is really a lack in a good thing. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole - but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all that existed was good. One of the good things that God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or non-good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a "thing" that required God to create it.

Look at the example of Job in Job chapters 1-2. Satan wanted to destroy Job, and God allowed Satan to do everything but kill Job. God allowed this to happen to prove to Satan that Job was righteous because he loved God, not because God had blessed him so richly. God is sovereign and ultimately in control of everything that happens. Satan cannot do anything unless he has God's "permission." God did not create evil, but He allows evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their "programming." God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether we wanted to serve Him or not.

God created people with free will, meaning that we can choose to love and obey God or not. It wouldn't be very meaningful if we loved or obeyed God because we were unable to choose otherwise. A computer or talking doll can be made to say "I love you," but it doesn't have the same meaning as when a human freely chooses to love. Thus, in order for anyone's choice to love and follow God to be meaningful, God permits everyone to choose freely what they will do.

The problem with this answers is that the skeptic can ask in reply, "Why didn't God create a world in which there was no suffering or evil, instead of the present world?" Or in other words, why didn't God simply create heaven and populate it with beings who had free will but would always choose to love God and do good? There is no suffering in heaven; no one does wrong; there are no physical limitations that would cause us pain. There would be no reason for us to have physical bodies with pain receptors, for there would be nothing that could cause us injury. There would be no reason for us to experience discipline, for we would have all the moral knowledge we needed and would have no desire to do wrong. There would be no reason for testing or other forms of suffering that would result in spiritual growth, for we would be directly in God's presence all the time. There would be no need for God to punish evil at a later date if there were no evil to begin with. Finally, an omniscient God knows ahead of time who will follow him, and so he could create only those people who would choose him. Alternatively, God could have created only the angels who wouldn't rebel against him, and there would still be beings who freely chose to worship him. (In answer to the question of how we can have free will in heaven

This world is clearly not the best of all logically possible worlds, but it is the best world God could create given His commitment to create genuinely free creatures like us. Free creatures are the only beings who can love and experience love. Since one of God's main purposes in creating us was to have a reciprocal love relationship with us, God created the best of all actually achievable worlds. God cannot make people freely choose to good or freely love Him. If He makes them do it, they are not free. If they are genuinely free, then He can't make them do it. That would be a contradiction. Therefore, the possibility of free creatures choosing evil is not something God can control without eliminating free will. And a free will is not just a nice addendum on human nature, it is an integral part of who we are. This being the case, if God were to eliminate evil, He would also be eliminating free will. And in doing so, God would be perpetrating the most horrendous evil of all: the annihilation of the human race.

A child who is hurting needs reassurance, not an intellectual explanation. Atheism cannot supply this reassurance. It does not reduce suffering one bit-it just removes hope. In an atheistic universe, there is no ultimate accountability or justice. Evil people will get away with what they've done. But in the Christian worldview, God has done something about evil in the person of Jesus Christ.

By appearing in human form, He showed us that we could trust Him. And what did He do while He was here? He suffered! Jesus endured a suffering beyond all comprehension. He bore the punishment for the sins of the entire world! For all the evil that everyone of us from the beginning of our species has perpetrated, He paid the penalty. None of us can comprehend that suffering. Though he was innocent, He voluntarily took upon Himself the punishment we deserve. And why? Because He loves us. It is like He was saying, "I know you don't understand why I permit every evil. It's not possible for you to understand yet. But just to show you that you can trust me, I'm going to suffer with you."

When we comprehend his sacrifice and love for us, it puts the problem of evil in an entirely different perspective. We see clearly that the true problem of evil is the problem of our evil. Filled with sin and guilt before God, the question we face is not how God can justify himself to us, but how we can be justified before Him. And it is through Christ's payment for our evil by his death on the cross that we can be justified before God. Through Him we have forgiveness.

Many Christians will also testify that Christ provides inner resources to cope in the midst of difficulty and suffering. He promises that He causes all things to work together for good to those who love God

Romans 8:28 We are assured and know that [God being a partner in their labor] all things work together and are [fitting into a plan] for good to and for those who love God and are called according to [His] design and purpose.

He promises victory over death, the ultimate evil. Those who genuinely choose to accept and receive his forgiveness will rise from the dead with a transformed, immortal, imperishable body to be with him forever

1 Corinthians 15:42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead. [The body] that is sown is perishable and decays, but [the body] that is resurrected is imperishable (immune to decay, immortal).

1 Corinthians 15:52 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the [sound of the] last trumpet call. For a trumpet will sound, and the dead [in Christ] will be raised imperishable (free and immune from decay), and we shall be changed (transformed).

Death, pain and suffering have been dealt a fatal blow; they have suffered a crucial defeat. So paradoxically, God is not banished because of the problem of evil, rather God himself is the solution.

Resting in the hands of the Lord.
Bob

John 3:16 16For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([a]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
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« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2006, 01:53:44 AM »

The Bible is God's Word

It is the book most read and studied, and it is the most controversial book on the earth today. Some say that it is the Word of God, while others question the validity of that claim. There are many reasons for us to believe that it is the Word of God. We would like to present a few of the key reasons here and invite you to read with an open mind and make your own conclusion.

Four Criteria for Identifying the Word of God
God created man and wanted to communicate with man, it is reasonable that He would do so through a book, something unchangeable and understandable to man. Such a book would have to meet a few requirements. It would have to identify God as its source; its standard of morality would have to match God's standard of morality, which would have to exceed the highest moral standards of mankind; it would have to reveal God and His purpose for creating mankind; and it would have to be widely available. Our first reason for believing that the Bible is the Word of God is that it satisfies all the above criteria.

Three Books Claim Divine Authorship
There are only three major books that claim divine authorship - the Bible, the Koran, and the book of Mormon. All other books can be eliminated from consideration immediately.

The Bible Has the Highest Moral Tone
The moral tone of the Bible is clearly higher than that of the other two, matching God's love and righteousness. Both the Koran and the Book of Mormon allow polygamy. Only the Bible promotes the idea of one husband to one wife. Not only does the Bible condemn divorce, but it even condemns lusting after another in the heart as adultery. In addition, only the Bible teaches that hating others in the heart is like committing murder (because murder comes out of a heart full of hatred). It teaches not only to not hate one's enemies, but also to love them. Only the Bible portrays the highest standard of love, a love completely free of all self-interest, jealousy, and pride. A society that truly follows the Bible is guaranteed to have love, oneness, peace, and rest.

The Bible Reveals God and His Purpose with Man
The Bible reveals God, who He is, what He intends to do, the origin of man, and God's purpose in creating man. Neither the Koran nor the Book of Mormon indicate a clear purpose for man; in these books the relationship between God and man is merely that of Creator and creature, of Judge and defendant, with the "good" ones being rewarded in the hereafter. The Bible, however, reveals that God created man as a vessel to contain Him as life so that man may express Him in His divine attributes and represent Him to rule over the earth. Thus, it reveals not only God's creation of man but also God's desire to live in man so that man may live in Him, resulting in an absolute oneness of God with man. No other book reveals God and His purpose with man.

The Bible Is the Most Available Book
Finally, the Bible is the book most available to man. All or portions have been translated into approximately two thousand languages. In 1989, 600 million copies were sent out to a world population of 5.5 billion. The Bible has virtually saturated the world. This is because it is the book of God's communication to man. People all over the world now have an opportunity to read it and to know God.

Fulfilled Prophecies Prove the Bible
Our second reason for believing that the Bible is the Word of God is that so far all of its prophecies have been fulfilled. Teachings, reasonings, ethics, and the like are subjective and can be easily written by anybody. However, if any book contains hundreds of predictions of events far in the future whose outcomes were not obviously determinable at the time they were recorded, and if not one of them fails, that book must be the Word of God.

The Bible contains prophecies written from 4000 BC to 700 BC concerning Jesus Christ's person, birth, living, death, resurrection, and second coming in glory. Except for His second coming, all of them were fulfilled 2,000 years ago, (109 prophecies for Jesus to fulfill, he fulfilled all of them.)

All of the Bible's prophecies concerning Israel's past and present have been fulfilled. Such prophecies include the possession of the good land (Palestine), the building of the temple, the falling away, the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, the captivity in Babylon, the rebuilding of the temple and Jerusalem, the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem again (AD 70), the restoration of the nation (1948), and the return of Jerusalem (1967). Only the prophecies concerning the end of this age remain to be fulfilled.

There are not enough pages here to enumerate all the prophecies in the Bible which have been fulfilled. These fulfilled prophecies should prove to anyone, including you, that the Bible has to be the Word of God, for it is impossible for man to predict the future with such infallibility.

Consistency Proves the Bible
The third reason for believing that the Bible is the genuine Word of God is its consistency. The various books which comprise the Bible were written in a few different languages, by approximately forty writers with different backgrounds, over a period of sixteen hundred years. Yet it has a common theme, an introduction, a development, and a conclusion. Although the Bible was written by so many men, all of them were led by the Spirit of the one God.

The Power of the Bible
The power of the Bible to change people's lives, thoughts, directions, and behavior testifies to the validity of the Bible as the Word of God. The fact that many people have loved the Bible enough to die for it also testifies to its validity. Talking to a Christian who truly believes the Bible is unlike talking to anyone else - that person has actually experienced God.

Continued next post
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« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2006, 01:54:19 AM »

You Must Prove It to Yourself
All of the above reasons may be convincing, but there is only one way to prove to yourself that the Bible is the Word of God. That is to do what it says and see if you get the promised results. One verse says, "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Rom. 10:13. If you say, "Lord Jesus, I call on Your name. Save me from the bondage of sins. Save me from my inability to be good and proper. Save me from my daily anxieties, fears, and frustrations. Lord Jesus, save me," you will experience His salvation. Another verse says, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God" Matt. 5:8. You can test this verse by saying, "Lord Jesus, purify my heart that I may see God." If you pray with an open heart according to the words of the Bible, you will be saved and see God in your spirit through Jesus Christ. Then you will know that the Bible is God's Word to you.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
2 Peter 1:21 For no prophecy was ever borne by the will of man, but men spoke from God while being borne by the Holy Spirit.
Hebrews 1:1 God, having spoken of old in many portions and in many ways to the fathers in the prophets.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Matthew 5:32 But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except for the cause of fornication, causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries her who has been divorced commits adultery.
Matthew 5:28 But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman in order to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to the judgment.
Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion... over all the earth.
Ephesians 3:9-11 And to enlighten all that they may see what the economy of the mystery is, which throughout the ages has been hidden in God, who created all things, In order that now to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenlies the multifarious wisdom of God might be made known through the church, According to the eternal purpose which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord.
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us.
John 10:10 I have come that they may have life and may have it abundantly.
John 15:4 Abide in Me and I in you.
Galatians 2:20 It is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
John 14:20,23 In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. ...If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him.
Romans 6:11 So also you, reckon yourselves to be dead to sin, but living to God in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.
John 6:57 As the living Father has sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me.

Prophecies for Further References:
Isaiah 7:14; 53:3; 9:1-2, 6; Micah 5:2; Daniel 9:25-26; Isaiah 53:12; Psalms 16:10; Malachi 4:5; Genesis 13:14-15, 17; 2 Samuel 7:12-13; 1 Kings 8:19; 9:6-9; Jeremiah 5:15-18; Matthew 24:2, 32; Daniel 9:27; 12:11.

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Matthew 16:28 Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in (into) His kingdom.
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« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2006, 01:05:48 PM »

Heaven or Hell

Christians believe that there will be a judgement. In this, everyone's life will be evaluated. Those who depend upon Christ for salvation can be assured that they will pass this judgement. However the quality of their lives will still become known, and everything in their lives that was not built on Christ will be purged. The Bible talks of their work being tested with fire.

All major Christian traditions say that in the end everyone will end up in either heaven or hell. At first glance, it sounds like we won't be held accountable for what we did, as long as we manage to meet the minimal criteria for ending up in heaven. In fact there are several ways of maintaining some kind of accountability.

Protestant groups are still concerned to maintain accountability for what has been done during life. Many Protestants believe that there will be different levels of honor in heaven. Many Protestants also believe that even saved people will go through a process where their entire lives are reviewed and judged, even though their final destination is not in doubt.

Currently there is a good deal of discussion among Christians about the morality of hell: it is said that a good God would not condemn people to an eternity of torture. However that has been the belief of Christians through most of Christian history, it is supported by the Bible.

My  Christian position is that anyone who rejects Christ will end up in hell. Does this mean that only Christians can be saved? The Catholic church and many Protestant churches don't think so. They believe it is possible that Christ can come to someone in an inward and spiritual way, even if they've never heard of Christ. Thus someone can be an "anonymous Christian." That is, they can know Christ spiritually without realizing it it Christ. Please note, I strongly disagree, with this Theology.

Most Christians also believe that God's judgement will take into account the sorts of opportunities a person had to learn the truth. A person who has never heard the Gospel can't be said to have rejected Christ. An even worse situation occurs when Christians have persecuted other groups. A person who sees Christ as a persecutor has hardly had, if any a real exposure to the Gospel.

Luke 16, Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell:

Luke 16:22-28
    22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
    23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
    24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
    25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
    26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
    27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
    28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

"Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment" (Hebrews 9:27). How are we to understand the descriptive language about heaven, hell, the New Jerusalem, and the lake of fire? Unless there is a clear contextual reason, the language of Scripture should always be taken literally and be viewed from its plain and simple meaning. But human language is inadequate to describe either heaven or hell. The realities of both fall well beyond our most imaginative dreams. It is impossible to describe the glory and splendor of heaven and the terror and torment of hell. Whether taken literally or figuratively, the meaning is the same: Hell is a place where one will experience total separation from God; heaven enjoys the total presence of God.

Hell is fire, plain and simple.
The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this  FLAME."

Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."

Judgment of the wicked. The final judgment for the wicked is a frightening picture. Called the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). Jesus Christ is the Judge. Judged are all the wicked dead from all nations and all times. They are judged according to their works while living. No one at this judgment escapes or is acquitted. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:14,15). We customarily refer to hell as the end that awaits the wicked. The wicked here are all who have rejected Jesus Christ as the Savior who died to make them righteous.

Some teach that hell is not eternal torture, but rather eternal cessation of existence. This false teaching grows out of inability to understand how a loving God can mete out such a painful punishment. Others ask, "How could a God of love send people to hell?" The answer is that He doesn't. Only those who willfully turn from His Son Jesus as their source of salvation go to hell. In this life we are constantly confronted by the overtures and invitations of a God of love. But He is also a holy and just God. He must punish the wicked who turn away from His holiness.

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Romans 5:18 Well then, as one man's trespass [one man's false step and falling away led] to condemnation for all men, so one Man's act of righteousness [leads] to acquittal and right standing with God and life for all men.
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« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2006, 07:13:44 AM »

Blackeyedpeas, you mentionned when talking about the legitimacy of the Bible that:

"history from other sources also verify the Bible"

Can you tell me where i might be able to read some of what these sources say?
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« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2006, 11:56:51 AM »

Blackeyedpeas, you mentionned when talking about the legitimacy of the Bible that:

"history from other sources also verify the Bible"

Can you tell me where i might be able to read some of what these sources say?

Hi susie,

I know this question was posted to blackeyedpeas, but if you can bear with me for a while I am compiling a list of this evidence right now and will post it as soon as I can. Much of this evidence is pretty well scattered and is quite extensive so I must first put it all together.

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« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2006, 12:27:09 PM »

This is just a partial listing of extra Biblical evidence that the Bible is true. For more recent archaeological evidence please see the thread "Recent Archaeological Finds" in the "Prophecy - Current Events" section.

Extra-Biblical evidence of Jesus


Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD), "the greatest historian" of ancient Rome

Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian (117-138 AD)

Flavius Josephus (37-97 AD), court historian for Emperor Vespasian

Julius Africanus, writing around 221 AD, found a reference in the writings of Thallus, who wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean around 52 AD, which dealt with the darkness that covered the land during Jesus's crucifixion

Pliny the Younger, Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor around 112 AD

Emperor Trajan, letter to Pliny

Emporer Hadrian (117-138 AD), in a letter to Minucius Fundanus, the Asian proconsul

The Jewish Talmud, compiled between 70 and 200 AD

Lucian, a second century Greek satirist

Mara Bar-Serapion, of Syria, writing between 70 and 200 AD from prison to motivate his son to emulate wise teachers of the past

Acts of Pontius Pilate, reports sent from Pilate to Tiberius, referred to by Justin Martyr (150 AD)

Phlegon, born about 80 AD, as reported by Origen (185-254 AD), mentioned that Jesus made certain predictions which had been fulfilled.



Quadratus, to Emperor Hadrian about 125 AD:

    "The deeds of our Saviour were always before you, for they were true miracles; those that were healed, those that were raised from the dead, who were seen, not only when healed and when raised, but were always present. They remained living a long time, not only whilst our Lord was on earth, but likewise when He had left the earth. So that some of them have also lived to our own times."


(Pseudo-)Barnabas, written 130-138 AD:

    "He must needs be manifested in the flesh. ... He preached teaching Israel and performing so many wonders and miracles, and He loved them exceedingly. ... He chose His own apostles who were to proclaim His Gospel. ... But He Himself desired so to suffer; for it was necessary for Him to suffer on a tree."



Justin Martyr, to Emperor Antoninus Pius about 150 AD:

    After referring to Jesus's birth of a virgin in the town of Bethlehem, and that His physical line of descent came through the tribe of Judah and the family of Jesse, Justin wrote, "Now there is a village in the land of the Jews, thirty-five stadia from Jerusalem, in which Jesus Christ was born, as you can ascertain also from the registers of the taxing made under Cyrenius, your first procurator in Judea."

    "Accordingly, after He was crucified, even all His acquaintances forsook Him, having denied Him; and afterwards, when He had risen from the dead and appeared to them, and had taught them to read the prophecies in which all these things were foretold as coming to pass, and when they had seen Him ascending into heaven, and had believed, and had received power sent thence by Him upon them, and went to every race of men, they taught these things, and were called apostles."




cont'd on page two

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« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2006, 12:28:11 PM »

Page Two

EXTRA-biblical antediluvian (i.e. "before the flood") king lists that show long lives as it does in the Bible:


"The Sumerian King List (ANET, p. 265) contains lists of royal names, cities, and amazingly long reigns for each king before the Flood. After the flood, the reigns are shorter, but still hundreds of years in length."


There is the Sumerian King List (the oldest list) [Sumer:21ff]. There are about a dozen copies of this in existence, with the oldest being dated around 2100 BC


The Lagash Kinglist, from the city of Lagash in Sumer, not only gives long lifespans, but also adds that life was much 'slower'--people were children for much longer periods of time--100 years (cf. how the biblical pre-flood patriarchs had their firstborn children very late) [Jacobson, in ISI:134]. It is interesting how this 100-year childhood is the same period used by Hesiod in describing his "golden race."


A similar list is found in the beginning of a world-chronicle in the library of Assurbanipal (seventh century BC).


Another pre-flood kinglist shows up in from Uruk (also in Sumer, about 50 miles west of Lagish). In addition to the seven kings, there are seven 'sages' associated with them.


Finally, there is the Hellenistic priest Berossus, who migrated from Babylon to Greece, and wrote a three volume work on the historical background of Babylon. In this work, he gave the kinglist and also gave the names of the sages associated with them.


It is also important to note in the continuation of the Kinglist, that AFTER the Flood, the lifespans drop by an order of magnitude, with NO 'tapering off' at all! And then they drop off again, by another order of magnitude, to arrive at kingly lifetimes of more 'normal' measures.



Archaeological Evidence verifying biblical cities (partial list)

Arad, Babylon, Bethel, Capernaum, Chorazin, Dan, Ephesus, Gaza, Gezer, Gomorrah, Hazor, Hesbon, Jericho, Joppa, Nineveh, Shechem, Sodom, Susa


More Achaeological evidence:

A team of archaeologists led by Prof. Avraham Biran, excavating Tel Dan in the northern Galilee, found a triangular piece of basalt rock, measuring 23 x 36 cm. inscribed in Aramaic. It was subsequently identified as part of a victory pillar erected by the king of Syria and later smashed by an Israelite ruler. The inscription, which dates to the ninth century bce, that is to say, about a century after David was thought to have ruled Israel, includes the words Beit David ("House" or "Dynasty" of David").


The discovery of the Ebla archive in northern Syria in the 1970s has shown the Biblical writings concerning the Patriarchs to be viable. Documents written on clay tablets from around 2300 B.C. demonstrate that personal and place names in the Patriarchal accounts are genuine. The name "Canaan" was in use in Ebla, a name critics once said was not used at that time and was used incorrectly in the early chapters of the Bible. The word "tehom" ("the deep") in Genesis 1:2 was said to be a late word demonstrating the late writing of the creation story. "Tehom" was part of the vocabulary at Ebla, in use some 800 years before Moses. Ancient customs reflected in the stories of the Patriarchs have also been found in clay tablets from Nuzi and Mari.


The Hittites were once thought to be a Biblical legend, until their capital and records were discovered at Bogazkoy, Turkey. Many thought the Biblical references to Solomon's wealth were greatly exaggerated. Recovered records from the past show that wealth in antiquity was concentrated with the king and Solomon's prosperity was entirely feasible. It was once claimed there was no Assyrian king named Sargon as recorded in Isaiah 20:1, because this name was not known in any other record. Then, Sargon's palace was discovered in Khorsabad, Iraq. The very event mentioned in Isaiah 20, his capture of Ashdod, was recorded on the palace walls. What is more, fragments of a stela memorializing the victory were found at Ashdod itself.


Another king who was in doubt was Belshazzar, king of Babylon, named in Daniel 5. The last king of Babylon was Nabonidus according to recorded history. Tablets were found showing that Belshazzar was Nabonidus' son who served as coregent in Babylon. Thus, Belshazzar could offer to make Daniel "third highest ruler in the kingdom" (Dan. 5:16) for reading the handwriting on the wall, the highest available position. Here we see the "eye-witness" nature of the Biblical record, as is so often brought out by the discoveries of archaeology.

Cont'd on page three

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« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2006, 12:30:02 PM »

Page Three

Likenesses of Biblical figures:

# Shishak, the Egyptian king who plundered the Temple during the reign of Rehoboam (1 Kings 14:25-26).

# Jehu, king of Israel, who took power in a bloody coup; the only surviving likeness of a king of Israel or Judah (2 Kings 9:1-10:36).

# Hazael, king of Aram, enemy of Israel (1 Kings 19:15, 17; 2 Kings 8:7-15, 28-29; 9:14-15; 10:32-33; 12:17-18; 13:3, 22, 24,25; Amos 1:4).

# Tiglath-Pileser III, king of Assyria, who invaded Israel (2 Kings 18:19, 29; 16:7, 10; 1 Chronicles 5:6, 26; 2 Chronicles 28:20).

# Sargon II, king of Assyria, who defeated Ashdod and completed the siege of Samaria and took Israelites into captivity (Isaiah 20:1).

# Sennacherib, king of Assyria, who attacked Judah but was unable to capture Jerusalem (2 Kings 18:13-19:37).

# Tirhakah, king of Egypt, who opposed Sennacherib (2 Kings 19:9).

# Esarhaddon, king of Assyria, who succeeded his father Sennacherib (2 Kings 19:37).

# Merodach-baladan, king of Babylon, whose messengers Hezekiah showed the royal treasury, much to the indignation of Isaiah (2 Kings 20:12-19).

# Xerxes I, king of Persia, who made Esther his queen (Esther; Ezra 4:6).

# Darius I, king of Persia, who allowed the returning exiles to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem (Ezra 4:24-6:15; Haggai 1:1, 15). Also see: Have archaeologists found the tomb of Darius? [answer]

# Augustus, Roman emperor, 27 B.C.-A.D. 14, when Jesus was born (Luke 2:1).

# Tiberius, Roman emperor, A.D. 14-37, during Jesus' adulthood and crucifixion (Matthew 22:17, 21; Mark 12:14-17; Luke 3:1; 20:22-25; 23:2; John 19:12,15).

# Claudius, Roman emperor, A.D. 41-54, who ordered the Jews to leave Rome (Acts 11:28; 17:7; 18:2).

# Herod Agrippa I, ruler of Judea, A.D. 37-44, who persecuted the early church (Acts 12:1-23; 23:35).

# Aretas IV, king of the Nabateans, 9 B.C.-A.D. 40, whose governor in Damascus attempted to arrest Paul (2 Corinthians 11:32).

# Nero (referred to as Caesar in the New Testament), Roman emperor, A.D. 54-68, who Paul appealed to (Acts 25:11,12,21; 26:32; 28:19; Philippians 4:22).


Man made structures mentioned in the Bible:



The palace at Jericho where Eglon, king of Moab, was assassinated by Ehud (Judges 3:15-30).

The east gate of Shechem where Gaal and Zebul watched the forces of Abimelech approach the city (Judges 9:34-38).

The Temple of Baal/El-Berith in Shechem, where funds were obtained to finance Abimelech's kingship and where the citizens of Shechem took refuge when Abimelech attacked the city (Judges 9:4, 46-49).

The pool of Gibeon where the forces of David and Ishbosheth fought during the struggle for the kingship of Israel (2 Samuel 2:12-32).

The Pool of Heshbon, likened to the eyes of the Shulammite woman (Song of Songs 7:4).

The royal palace at Samaria where the kings of Israel lived (1 Kings 20:43; 21:1, 2; 22:39; 2 Kings 1:2; 15:25).

The Pool of Samaria where King Ahab's chariot was washed after his death (1 Kings 22:29-38).

The water tunnel beneath Jerusalem dug by King Hezekiah to provide water during the Assyrian siege (2 Kings 20:20; 2 Chronicles 32:30).

The royal palace in Babylon where King Belshazzar held the feast and Daniel interpreted the handwriting on the wall (Daniel 5).

The royal palace in Susa where Esther was queen of the Persian king Xerxes (Esther 1:2; 2:3, 5, 9, 16).

The royal gate at Susa where Mordecai, Esther's cousin, sat (Esther 2:19, 21; 3:2, 3; 4:2; 5:9, 13; 6:10, 12).

The Square in front of the royal gate at Susa where Mordecai met with Halthach, Xerxes' eunuch (Esther 4:6).

The foundation of the synagogue at Capernaum where Jesus cured a man with an unclean spirit (Mark 1:21-28) and delivered the sermon on the bread of life (John 6:25-59).

The house of Peter at Capernaum where Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law and others (Matthew 8:14-16).

Jacob's well where Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman (John 4).

The Pool of Bethesda in Jerusalem, where Jesus healed a crippled man (John 5:1-14).

The Pool of Siloam in Jerusalem, where Jesus healed a blind man (John 9:1-4).

The tribunal at Corinth where Paul was tried (Acts 18:12-17).

The theater at Ephesus where the riot of silversmiths occurred (Acts 19:29). - See picture at top

Herod's palace at Caesarea where Paul was kept under guard (Acts 23:33-35).

King David's Palace in Jerusalem

King Solomons horse stables


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