Joining the Military

[JitC]

Joining the military isn’t like a normal job; you can’t just quit anytime you want. You have to sign a contract agreeing to enlist for so many years. When you sign up for the military you owe them a certain number of years of service; however many you signed the contract for. You can’t just back out, since a written promise or contract was made. During an enlistment, you have to obey your superiors, or else you’ll be punished.

Jesus said not to owe anybody anything, but once you enlist, you owe them so many years of service. Jesus said not to make promises, but in order to enlist you have to make a promise to serve for a certain number of years. Paul said: “do not become slaves of men”, but joining requires you to become a slave. No, you won’t have to pick cotton, or be whipped for disobeying. But you do have to do what you’re told, and if you disobey you will be punished.

I am thankful for the benefits that I reap because there is a U.S. military, but to join is wrong.

[2nd Timothy]

     

[sincereheart]

Joining the military isn’t like a normal job; you can’t just quit anytime you want. You have to sign a contract agreeing to enlist for so many years. When you sign up for the military you owe them a certain number of years of service; however many you signed the contract for. You can’t just back out, since a written promise or contract was made. During an enlistment, you have to obey your superiors, or else you’ll be punished.

Jesus said not to owe anybody anything, but once you enlist, you owe them so many years of service. Jesus said not to make promises, but in order to enlist you have to make a promise to serve for a certain number of years. Paul said: “do not become slaves of men”, but joining requires you to become a slave. No, you won’t have to pick cotton, or be whipped for disobeying. But you do have to do what you’re told, and if you disobey you will be punished.

I am thankful for the benefits that I reap because there is a U.S. military, but to join is wrong.

 ROFL!
And, of course, you also sign an 'contract' for cell phone service or a loan and even when you write a check (what is a check except a promissory note?)!

And I've never had a job where I wasn't told what to do by someone. Teachers sign contracts - as far as I know they're for one-year at a time.

[Shammu]

Joining the military isn’t like a normal job; you can’t just quit anytime you want. You have to sign a contract agreeing to enlist for so many years. When you sign up for the military you owe them a certain number of years of service; however many you signed the contract for. You can’t just back out, since a written promise or contract was made. During an enlistment, you have to obey your superiors, or else you’ll be punished.

Jesus said not to owe anybody anything, but once you enlist, you owe them so many years of service. Jesus said not to make promises, but in order to enlist you have to make a promise to serve for a certain number of years. Paul said: “do not become slaves of men”, but joining requires you to become a slave. No, you won’t have to pick cotton, or be whipped for disobeying. But you do have to do what you’re told, and if you disobey you will be punished.

I am thankful for the benefits that I reap because there is a U.S. military, but to join is wrong.

You are wrong, as I enlisted in the Marine Corp. in 1976. I learned alot, that you would not learn on the outside. In the OT some where, it is allowed to protect your country. Thats what I did, protect my country.
I am happy I served. If They ever need me again, I would go. Course I would be in the handicapped division.

[JitC]

You are wrong, as I enlisted in the Marine Corp. in 1976. I learned alot, that you would not learn on the outside.

  How is what you learned in the military relevant to this debate?

In the OT some where, it is allowed to protect your country.

I wasn’t saying it’s wrong to protect your country. I was saying it’s wrong to make promises. But if the government says you have to make a promise in order to protect your country, then it’s wrong to make that promise.

In the Old Testament you were aloud to make promises. But in the New Testament Jesus said:
“you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ But I say to you, do not swear at all…But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.” – (Matt 5:33-37)
Jesus wasn’t talking about curse words; he was talking about promises. And by saying that you can make a promise if it’s for this reason or that, you make Jesus' words to no effect.

[Shammu]

You are wrong, as I enlisted in the Marine Corp. in 1976. I learned alot, that you would not learn on the outside.

  How is what you learned in the military relevant to this debate?

In the OT some where, it is allowed to protect your country.

I wasn’t saying it’s wrong to protect your country. I was saying it’s wrong to make promises. But if the government says you have to make a promise in order to protect your country, then it’s wrong to make that promise.

In the Old Testament you were aloud to make promises. But in the New Testament Jesus said:
“you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ But I say to you, do not swear at all…But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.” – (Matt 5:33-37)
Jesus wasn’t talking about curse words; he was talking about promises. And by saying that you can make a promise if it’s for this reason or that, you make Jesus' words to no effect.

Do you know the oath/promise you take when you swear in?? What is the last word of the oath??
As it is right now America is at war. Durning a war, you need to defend the country you live in.
Or are you one of these (arm chair generals,) that believes that you should have all the rights and freedoms, with out serving your country. Freedom is not free.

edited to add; JitC asked,
How is what you learned in the military relevant to this debate?

What I learned is that, it is the responcibilty, of everyone, civilians, and military to protect your country. Not just the armed services, everyone.

Also if you work, you have a make promise. You are expected to show up to work at a certian time.

[ollie]

Joining the military isn’t like a normal job; you can’t just quit anytime you want. You have to sign a contract agreeing to enlist for so many years. When you sign up for the military you owe them a certain number of years of service; however many you signed the contract for. You can’t just back out, since a written promise or contract was made. During an enlistment, you have to obey your superiors, or else you’ll be punished.

Jesus said not to owe anybody anything, but once you enlist, you owe them so many years of service. Jesus said not to make promises, but in order to enlist you have to make a promise to serve for a certain number of years. Paul said: “do not become slaves of men”, but joining requires you to become a slave. No, you won’t have to pick cotton, or be whipped for disobeying. But you do have to do what you’re told, and if you disobey you will be punished.

I am thankful for the benefits that I reap because there is a U.S. military, but to join is wrong.

"Jesus said not to owe anybody anything,"

",.......but to love one another,,,,,,," It is the only debt never paid up for the Godly in Christ.

Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to tell us:

Romans 13:8.  "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Jesus Christ through inspired Paul also said:

Romans 13:1.  "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
 2.  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
 3.  For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
 4.  For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
 5.  Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
 6.  For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
 7.  Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.'


In the Spirit of His love,
ollie

[Shammu]

     

Yes he is and like .

[ollie]

You are wrong, as I enlisted in the Marine Corp. in 1976. I learned alot, that you would not learn on the outside.

  How is what you learned in the military relevant to this debate?

In the OT some where, it is allowed to protect your country.

I wasn’t saying it’s wrong to protect your country. I was saying it’s wrong to make promises. But if the government says you have to make a promise in order to protect your country, then it’s wrong to make that promise.

In the Old Testament you were aloud to make promises. But in the New Testament Jesus said:
“you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ But I say to you, do not swear at all…But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.” – (Matt 5:33-37)
Jesus wasn’t talking about curse words; he was talking about promises. And by saying that you can make a promise if it’s for this reason or that, you make Jesus' words to no effect.

Do you know the oath/promise you take when you swear in?? What is the last word of the oath??
As it is right now America is at war. Durning a war, you need to defend the country you live in.
Or are you one of these (arm chair generals,) that believes that you should have all the rights and freedoms, with out serving your country. Freedom is not free.

edited to add; JitC asked,
How is what you learned in the military relevant to this debate?

What I learned is that, it is the responcibilty, of everyone, civilians, and military to protect your country. Not just the armed services, everyone.

Also if you work, you have a make promise. You are expected to show up to work at a certian time.

"Also if you work, you have a make promise. You are expected to show up to work at a certian time."

One also promises to give eight hours a day of work for eight hours of agreed upon pay. Many sluggards out there break this promise expecting of course the promised pay.

1 Corinthians 10:31.  "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
 32.  Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
 33.  Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved."

Colossians 3:17.  "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."


In the Spirit of His love,
ollie

[JitC]

Do you know the oath/promise you take when you swear in?? What is the last word of the oath??

"So help me God."

Are you saying that it's ok to make promises to people if God is mentioned? Jesus said not to make any promises to people.

What I learned is that, it is the responcibilty, of everyone, civilians, and military to protect your country. Not just the armed services, everyone.

Ok. But if, in order to protect your country in a certain way, there is a stipulation that requires you to disobey Jesus, then it's wrong.

Also if you work, you have a make promise. You are expected to show up to work at a certian time.

Now your grabbing at straws. Making a promise, and what is expected of you are two different things. Of course with a job you are expected to come to work. But most employers don't require you to make an oath.

Don't confuse making an oath or promise with "yes" or "no". Sure you say "Yes, I'll come to work tomorrow." But you don't have to promise that you'll do it.

[ollie]

Do you know the oath/promise you take when you swear in?? What is the last word of the oath??

"So help me God."

Are you saying that it's ok to make promises to people if God is mentioned? Jesus said not to make any promises to people.

What I learned is that, it is the responcibilty, of everyone, civilians, and military to protect your country. Not just the armed services, everyone.

Ok. But if, in order to protect your country in a certain way, there is a stipulation that requires you to disobey Jesus, then it's wrong.

Also if you work, you have a make promise. You are expected to show up to work at a certian time.

Now your grabbing at straws. Making a promise, and what is expected of you are two different things. Of course with a job you are expected to come to work. But most employers don't require you to make an oath.

Don't confuse making an oath or promise with "yes" or "no". Sure you say "Yes, I'll come to work tomorrow." But you don't have to promise that you'll do it.

"Jesus said not to make any promises to people."

Where specifically is that written?

ollie

[ollie]

Consider Cornelius, A centurion of the Italian band. A military man in the Roman army. Do you think he may have made promises to Rome as a centurion? He was one of the first gentiles to come to Christ and receive the gift of the holy Spirit. Nothing is said that he gave up His military career.
See Acts 10.

[sincereheart]

They have modified the oath of enlistment for those who object to 'swearing' so that now you don't 'swear' -  
you affirm. So if that's your only objection, it's invalid.  

But if, in order to protect your country in a certain way, there is a stipulation that requires you to disobey Jesus, then it's wrong.
As it would be with any job!  

But you don't have to promise that you'll do it.
When you get cell phone service - you have to 'promise' to keep that service for one or two years or you'll be 'punished' - have to pay a penalty. And the difference is???

[JitC]

"Jesus said not to make any promises to people."

Where specifically is that written?

Matt 5:33-37 - "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one."

[JitC]

Consider Cornelius...Nothing is said that he gave up His military career.

Paul said: “Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it.” – (1 Cor 7:21) I don’t know anything about Cornelius’ military obligation, but if he made a promise to serve for so many years, then he was effectively a slave. Re-enlisting wouldn’t be right, as that would be another promise. But becoming a Christian didn’t mean he had to quit, unless he had that opportunity.