Joining the Military

[JitC]

They have modified the oath of enlistment for those who object to 'swearing' so that now you don't 'swear' -  
you affirm.

Do you honestly think calling the same thing by something else is a loophole that allows you to go against what Jesus taught? There are no loopholes.

When you get cell phone service - you have to 'promise' to keep that service for one or two years or you'll be 'punished' - have to pay a penalty. And the difference is???

I don’t know of any difference that’s relevant to this debate. It’s a promise. What’s your point?

I get the feeling you think you can't live without making promises. Of course you can.

[sincereheart]

Do you honestly think calling the same thing by something else is a loophole that allows you to go against what Jesus taught? There are no loopholes.

affirm: 1: to testify or declare by affirmation as distinguished from swearing an oath

A loophole?   You have a choice to swear or simply declare. I take it you're a SDA/JW?

Thankfully, there are those who defend your right to say that their job defending that right is wrong.  

I get the feeling you think you can't live without making promises. Of course you can.

Giving your word is a 'promise' in my mind. And if say "Yes", I mean yes and if I say "No", I mean no. That includes my wedding 'vows'!

[JitC]

People have to swear many things in order to join the military. There isn't just that one oath said verbally. There are many oaths; written and verbal. When I joined the military I spent hours going through paperwork reading and signing. Some of the stuff that I signed weren't promises. They were just acknowledgements that I read something, or understood something. But other papers that I signed actually legally bound me, making it a promise. I realized years afterwards that making promises is wrong, and decided not to re-enlist, since re-enlisting would require more promises.

I take it you're a SDA/JW?

No.

Giving your word is a 'promise' in my mind.

Is what you mean by "your word" simply "yes" and "no"? Or do you mean when somebody says "you have my word"?

[sincereheart]

I don’t know of any difference that’s relevant to this debate. It’s a promise. What’s your point?

My point is that you seem to think giving your word is bad! Yet, Christ gave His Word and I trust that!  

Joining the military isn’t like a normal job; you can’t just quit anytime you want.

So in your mind, anything you do that you can just up and quit makes you a better Christian?   That means that you should never marry or have children or anything that requires a committement. And most especially you shouldn't follow Christ   - that's the biggest and most important committement of all.....!!

Instead of concentrating on why YOU think being military is bad - while you enjoy the benefits provided for you - how about starting a ministry to the military and their families? They make so many sacrifices - starting with the constant moving and trying to adapt to a new environment, that a ministry geared to those families might be a better compromise for you!  

[JitC]

My point is that you seem to think giving your word is bad! Yet, Christ gave His Word and I trust that!

Don’t try and twist what I’m saying for your own gain. I’m not saying giving your word is wrong. I’m saying that for us to make promises/oaths to people is bad. How can you think it’s good if Jesus said not to do it?

So in your mind, anything you do that you can just up and quit makes you a better Christian?

Again, your trying to twist what I’m saying.

It’s odd, in this thread I’ve heard arguments about cell phones, eight hour a day jobs, and other irrelevant things. I make a logical argument based on the bible and I get insulted and called names (implicitly). The focus has been on me instead of the argument presented. I haven’t heard anything that touches on what Jesus said. I wonder if maybe the reason His words are being avoided is because they aren’t really followed. They seem to be like a thorn in people’s sides.

[nChrist]

JitC,

You really should spend your time with something you know something about.

I live in a nation that was UNDER GOD, and maybe it will be again some day.

I served under a flag that was dedicated UNDER GOD.

I've been married for over 30 years, and our vows were before GOD and in GOD. My wife and I obeyed our vows before GOD, and GOD has richly blessed us and our family. Our children were raised in the LORD, and the LORD has blessed them. My children are raising children, and they are being raised in the LORD. I strongly believe that they will also live for the LORD and be blessed by the LORD.

I served as a police officer for 25 years, and I dedicated myself to GOD in service. I prayed every day that GOD would give me the strength, courage, and wisdom to serve in a way that would be most pleasing to HIM. YES, I took an oath to serve unto death, and I meant it. I believe firmly that GOD was with me every time I faced life and death. I serve GOD first. I served in law enforcement IN GOD, and I firmly believe that GOD worked through me many times and in many ways for HIS GLORY, not mine. I testified in court thousands of times under oath. I never dreamed of telling a lie and DID TELL THE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP ME GOD! GOD did help me for 25 years, and I considered myself to be a tool used by GOD.

One should never dedicate anything to GOD unless they mean it sincerely. That would obviously include marriage.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[JitC]

Well blackeyedpeas, your post avoided the subject altogether. If you're going to post in this thread, why not mention why you think it's ok not to listen to Jesus?

Jesus said not to make promises to people at all. But I have yet to read a post in this thread explaining why the poster thinks it's ok to make promises to people. I keep reading posts that basicly say it's ok to make promises to people, but I haven't heard anything touching on what Jesus said. In fact, it seems that what He said is being completely avoided.

Did Jesus say not to make promises?
Is it ok to make promises?

[2nd Timothy]

2Ti 2:23  But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
2Ti 2:24  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26  And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

[JitC]

2nd Timothy, I take it you think my questions are foolish. I see people who say they have faith in Jesus do things that Jesus clearly said not to do. Should I not question this?

[Reba]

SHEESH

[nChrist]

SHEESH

   DITTO! Sister Reba.

 

[2nd Timothy]

2nd Timothy, I take it you think my questions are foolish. I see people who say they have faith in Jesus do things that Jesus clearly said not to do. Should I not question this?

What words of encouragment do you have for us JitC?

Grace and Peace!

[sincereheart]

*sigh* One last time....

"34 But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one."

It doesn't say you can't give your word or make a committeement.  

Again, your trying to twist what I’m saying.
No, I'm trying to get you to understand the absurdity of what you've said.  

In fact, it seems that what He said is being completely avoided.
And the folks here are trying to help you with that.  

It’s odd, in this thread I’ve heard arguments about cell phones, eight hour a day jobs, and other irrelevant things.
What was, I thought, simple; apparently is difficult for you to grasp. You make 'promises' everyday whether you realize it or not. Some are long-term (cell phone service), some are day-by-day (job). But you don't have to embellish that with swearing by something. You just simply declare 'Yes' or 'No' that you will do it.

As I said:
Instead of concentrating on why YOU think being military is bad - while you enjoy the benefits provided for you - how about starting a ministry to the military and their families? They make so many sacrifices - starting with the constant moving and trying to adapt to a new environment, that a ministry geared to those families might be a better compromise for you!  

[Symphony]

...committeement...



   


   

[nChrist]

JitC,

Maybe you are genuinely confused, but I suspect that trolling is the real culprit here.

Just in case you are genuinely confused, I'll tell you what Matthew 5:33-37 is talking about. It is about perjury and violation of oaths and vows. An oath or vow should be taken in all reverence, as to the LORD. An oath or a vow should never be taken lightly or in frivolous conversation. Perjury, in Biblical terms, is bearing false witness or false swearing. If the LORD's name is used in an oath or vow, it would be using the LORD's name in vain to NOT mean it in all reverence, as TO THE LORD. To do otherwise would be profane and using the LORD's name in vain.

Hint:  Perjury is against Biblical teaching and man's law. Using the LORD's NAME in vain and profane language is against Biblical teaching. It was against man's law in America, and it still is in many places.

There you go - incredibly simple.

Tom