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Author Topic: Women in leadership roles....  (Read 10134 times)
His_child
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« on: June 17, 2004, 02:29:52 AM »

Should women be able to be pastors, preachers, priests etc?
What type of leadership roles should they have in the church?

How about at home?
Who should be in leadership at home?
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I'm not following a God that's imagined.
Can't invent His deity.
That's why Jesus is the final answer
To Who I want my God to be.
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Evangelist
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2004, 10:21:45 AM »

Well....lotta questions, not many answers.

Here is a link to a pdf (too long to post here) of a study on women in ministry. Hopefully, it will answer some of your questions.
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BroHank
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BlackmanX
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2004, 12:11:41 PM »



 I have  no  problem  with  women  in  leadership  roles.  I promote  gender  equality.  I  dont  support  mysogyny or  misandry.   I  would   not  want to work  under a  tyrant,  be it a  male or a  female.   In the  home,  a  partnership  of  sorts  is the best relationship. Mutual  respect,  understanding,   and cooperation  is key to a  good  relationship.  
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His_child
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2004, 01:15:13 AM »

Evangelist- sorry, I couldn't get to your link.

BlackmanX- care to give an explanation of what Paul was talking about when he said women should not be in leadership roles in the church or when he talked about male headship in the home?
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I'm not following a God that's imagined.
Can't invent His deity.
That's why Jesus is the final answer
To Who I want my God to be.
He's Who I want my God to be.
-  Who? by Peter Furler and Steve Taylor (Newsboys)
sincereheart
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« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2004, 07:10:30 AM »

http://www.john812.com/women.pdf
Had an extra quotation mark. Should work now.... Smiley
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C C
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2004, 03:44:57 PM »

 Cheesy

I read the link about women in Leadership roles.  I have no desire to fight against God and I get tired of fighting against man.  But I do disagree with the people that are hard hearted against having women in leadership roles.

I think women do just fine in leadership roles provided there's no worthy men in leadership roles.  If there are men in leadership roles that are worthy of being followed, then we can let them lead.  It is much easier to care for others if we don't have to worry about making lots of hard decisions.  But I think there's a very dangerous thing that happens if one part of the Bible gets taken to an extreme and another part gets ignored.  You can easily have lousy leaders teaching false doctrines and then telling women they have to submit.  Everyone will agree that there is some truth to the scripture that says, "wicked are those that put their trust in men."  There will be a judgment day and women as well as men will be accountable for their actions because in the kingdom of God there is neither male nor female.  

For the most part, I do believe that in the "Church" which is the body of Christ, that having women in leadership roles is entirely acceptable.  Because households are in the body of Christ.  Everyone that is a believer is in the body of Christ, and in every relationship that we have with anyone we always influence them in one way or another.

I also believe that there are conditions that are applied to roles within a household between husband and wife in that a wife should submit to her husband AS her husband submits to Christ.  Not just on anything and everything.

I find it dangerous to trust in men and scripture warns us not to.  We should trust in God.  But I also find it "restful and peaceful and a burden lifted" to be able to trust in humans who love us and also love God and are looking out for our best interest while we look out for the best interest of others.  Women do quite  well in ministering to people.  They are excellent ministers  But it is a dangerous world, always has been and always will be.  I totally believe that Paul was not permitting women doing certain things in church in some instances because remember, Christians were being murdered for their faith.  In protection of women, Paul may have stated those things.  It only makes sense that it was for women's best interest and protection because in practice women were in fact having leadership roles in Paul's time.  And the women were loud apparently and zealous and they could have easily been killed and there was a whole bunch of hostility.  Think about how many times Paul was stoned and beaten and imprisoned--think about those things and you'll have a better understanding of what Paul was talking about.  I don't think that he meant to undo the "neither male nor female" freedom in Christ that he had given to women.

Christ also is the one that began treating women with respect and dignity.  

I do have strong opinions about whether or not all those scriptures that tell women to "sit down and shut up and do as your told" scriptures may have been misinterpreted and possibly taken out of context.  I have been posting some things in another thread.  I'll copy them below.
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C C
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2004, 03:48:22 PM »

"Anyway, I'm not claiming to be an expert on Greek.  I'm just claiming to know that some translations can be laughable if they are translated word per word.  Especially when the concept that develops out of the translation is laughable.  And even more especially when there's something to be gained by the mis-translation--then it's not so much laughable as much as possibly evil.

I'll just go with laughable.  If a person just went with the translation the way those scriptures translate then it would be boiled down to women must trust in men.  The Bible tells us that Wicked are those who trust in men.  Also, how can you explain the female prophets and the female judges of old if it was against God's will for women to teach.  And how do you explain away the female leaders of churches in Paul's day?  And then when you come to think about it, there are so many interpretations of what "church" actually is.  But if the "church" is the body of Christ, like I believe it to be, then the interpretation of those scriptures is saying that women can't be leaders in the body of Christ and women can't be teachers in the body of Christ.  That's laughable.  Hence, there is evidence that the interpretation is correct EVEN if it is word per word interpretation, the concept is incorrect based on the rest of the Bible."

I'm sure there's reasons why Paul said some of the things that he said, but I'm also sure there's reasons why they were translated the way they were translated.
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Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you would include not finding your neighbor's biggest fault and then harping on it as if it were your mission.
C C
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2004, 04:04:26 PM »

Matthew 7
12  So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Jeremiah 17:5
This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD .

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
 
Psalm 118:8
It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man.
(Whole Chapter: Psalm 118 In context: Psalm 118:7-9)

Proverbs 29:25
Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe.

Isaiah 2:22
Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?

Anyway, the whole point is that we're told over and over in the Bible to put our trust in Our Lord.  Then if we practiced Paul's words the way that they are interpreted, what would happen to women is that they would be forced to take their eyes off of Jesus and focus them on men.  It would be another story if we knew our Lord, and then we knew our husband to love the Lord.  But living out Paul's words exactly the way most folks teach them these days and based on those interpretations, a women would never be able  to develp a relationship with the Lord enough to even be in a position to find a man that follows the Lord in order to submit to him.

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Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you would include not finding your neighbor's biggest fault and then harping on it as if it were your mission.
C C
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2004, 04:25:43 PM »

How many millions of women are dealing with husbands as dorky as Nabal?


1 Samuel 25:3
His name was Nabal and his wife's name was Abigail. She was an intelligent and beautiful woman, but her husband, a Calebite, was surly and mean in his dealings.
While David was in the desert, he heard that Nabal was shearing sheep.
So he sent ten young men and said to them, "Go up to Nabal at Carmel and greet him in my name.
When David's men arrived, they gave Nabal this message in David's name. Then they waited.
Nabal answered David's servants, "Who is this David? Who is this son of Jesse? Many servants are breaking away from their masters these days.
One of the servants told Nabal's wife Abigail: "David sent messengers from the desert to give our master his greetings, but he hurled insults at them.
Then she told her servants, "Go on ahead; I'll follow you." But she did not tell her husband Nabal.
May my lord pay no attention to that wicked man Nabal. He is just like his name-his name is Fool, and folly goes with him. But as for me, your servant, I did not see the men my master sent.
"Now since the LORD has kept you, my master, from bloodshed and from avenging yourself with your own hands, as surely as the LORD lives and as you live, may your enemies and all who intend to harm my master be like Nabal.
Otherwise, as surely as the LORD , the God of Israel, lives, who has kept me from harming you, if you had not come quickly to meet me, not one male belonging to Nabal would have been left alive by daybreak."
When Abigail went to Nabal, he was in the house holding a banquet like that of a king. He was in high spirits and very drunk. So she told him nothing until daybreak.
Then in the morning, when Nabal was sober, his wife told him all these things, and his heart failed him and he became like a stone.
About ten days later, the LORD struck Nabal and he died.

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Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you would include not finding your neighbor's biggest fault and then harping on it as if it were your mission.
C C
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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2004, 04:45:23 PM »

 Grin.

and last but not least, if women are prohibited from teaching in the Body of Christ, all of us women on this chat are in big trouble, because if we've lead anyone to change their mind about something, that would make us a leader, and if someone learned anything from us, that would make us a teacher, and if the ones that learned or were lead by us are in the body of Christ, then heck we're leading and teaching in church SIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNN  oooooh!

Repent sinners.   Cool
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Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you would include not finding your neighbor's biggest fault and then harping on it as if it were your mission.
Neo
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2004, 05:08:59 PM »

1 Corinthians 14:34 - "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law."

1 Corinthians 14:35 - "And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
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Reba
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2004, 06:18:54 PM »

The scriptures are sexes no doubt about it. As much as i believe the scripture that tells me Salvation is via the Lord . i believe the sexes ones also. God is wiser than man or woman I trust in Him.   In the churches, women teach other women. I know this does not 'fit' into todays world and this is just my view. John is the head of this house, yet we are a team. Reading Proverbs 31 the lady had "it going on" She was about real estate among other things. A baseball team needs 9 players on the field each works with the other. all are needed one is not better than the other just different.  ( please dont tell Bobby Bonds he is not better Grin)
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Neo
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« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2004, 06:32:27 PM »

1 Timothy 2:11 - "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection."

1 Timothy 2:12 - "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
« Last Edit: June 21, 2004, 06:32:59 PM by Neo » Logged
Reba
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« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2004, 06:50:28 PM »

Titus 2:3-4
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
KJV
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Neo
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2004, 01:21:36 AM »

Colossians 3:18 - "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord."
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