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Author Topic: death penalty right or wrong?  (Read 4875 times)
BlackmanX
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« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2004, 04:49:46 PM »


The  death  penalty is  wrong.  Many  innocent  men get executed  all the time.  Evidence can be  fabricated  or tempered with.  Witnesses  may lie.  False accusations can and do  happen.
Those  things  can  be fixed  if  and when brave  men step  into the light of  day  and  speak  the  truth.......but  none of that matters  if  the  innocent  man  is  already  six  feet  under.   So, yes.  the death  penalty  is  wrong.   peace.
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Shylynne
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« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2004, 06:07:18 PM »

God so loved the [unrighteous, fornicators, wicked, covetous, malicious; envious, murderers, quarrelers, deceivers, mischievous; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful] He gave His only Son that that we all might live.  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death - Rom 1:32
The death penalty sin demands, was paid for at the cross.
A child of God should not condemn  a man or woman to a fate, according to God`s judgement we are all no less worthy of.


1Jo 1:5  This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jo 1:6  If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jo 1:7  But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
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Shammu
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« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2004, 01:36:24 AM »

The man I converted while serving time for murder? He is the man that murdered my wife, of 17 years. I have forgiven him, I know some of you will not understand. My wife is now with the Lord, thats all that counts.
I can forgive, I haven't forgotten, as I can't forget. You see, I still love my wife. I know I will see her again. Thats all that counts. I myself, didn't do this for any reward, I did it because, it is right.

Oh my nick........ is after the song by Gary Wright .... "DreamWeaver"

Luke 6:35-36
5 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
KJV

Thanks Reba, I need that. I thought I could let it out but, I still was upset, that I cried almost all night. Sorry I didn't answer you before, I was going to answer 2Bombs when I heard of former Pres. Reagans death. I just shut everything down.  Cry
I still didn't do it for a reward. I did it because it is right.
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ollie
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« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2004, 07:19:01 PM »

Quote
Please don't confuse murder with killing.
There is a big difference between ending the life of a murderer and ending the life of an innocent baby.
Comparing the two is comparing oranges and apples.
"They are both fruit."

But from different trees.

Quote
What do you think the punishment should be for a murderer?
"Surely that's in the hands of God."

Did His hands handle it?
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michael_legna
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« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2004, 05:05:39 PM »

When someone is executed or the death penalty applied if you will, you remove that person's last chance to accept Christ.  That is not something I will ever do or condone.

Let them rot in a cell with no access to sunlight, exercise, parole, or even TV and pizza if you want - but don't kill them.  Give them a Bible and verbal access to teachers and nothing else if you want - but don't kill them.
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Shammu
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« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2004, 05:32:19 PM »

Suppose someone comes over to your house and hacks your wife or your husband and kids to death with a a sharp implement.  

Then would it be justice for you to have to house him, even if in a small hole his entire life?

What I don't get is this idea that if someone comes over and hacks someone to death or rapes anyone and has them for dinner, that we should have to house them.  Give that person a place to stay.  That doesn't sound like justice to me.
I will answer you statement in parts.
Suppose someone comes over to your house and hacks your wife or your husband and kids to death with a a sharp implement.
Forgivness is totally in Gods hands. I have been there, I know. I have forgiven him, and helped him towards God. I remember, and at times it is painful but, the hand of God lifts my sorrow, and shows his mercy with his helping hands.

Then would it be justice for you to have to house him, even if in a small hole his entire life?
Yes it is justice, least for me. Two wrongs do not, make a right.

What I don't get is this idea that if someone comes over and hacks someone to death or rapes anyone and has them for dinner, that we should have to house them.  Give that person a place to stay.  That doesn't sound like justice to me.
It is justice, justice is again, in the hands of God. We, the human race, do not have the right to take a life, except in time of war. The bible accepts war, not taking a life. The Bible says, turn the other cheek. This is what I have done, turn the other cheek.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2004, 05:36:53 PM by DreamWeaver » Logged

Reba
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« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2004, 06:53:04 PM »

When someone is executed or the death penalty applied if you will, you remove that person's last chance to accept Christ.  That is not something I will ever do or condone.

Let them rot in a cell with no access to sunlight, exercise, parole, or even TV and pizza if you want - but don't kill them.  Give them a Bible and verbal access to teachers and nothing else if you want - but don't kill them.
Salvation is not by chance.
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michael_legna
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« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2004, 07:58:16 PM »

Suppose someone comes over to your house and hacks your wife or your husband and kids to death with a a sharp implement.  

Then would it be justice for you to have to house him, even if in a small hole his entire life?

What I don't get is this idea that if someone comes over and hacks someone to death or rapes anyone and has them for dinner, that we should have to house them.  Give that person a place to stay.  That doesn't sound like justice to me.

I understand the issue one faces when it gets personal and I am not saying that I know I would be strong enough to hold to my convictions in such a case but I hope so.  I don't think ones convictions should be based on emotions.

I was in the Navy for 6 years and it pains me to think that most prisoners have it better off than the military does.  So the cost to house prisoners the way I would do it would cost alot less than the entire prison system does today though trust me.  Smiley
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michael_legna
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« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2004, 08:02:05 PM »

When someone is executed or the death penalty applied if you will, you remove that person's last chance to accept Christ.  That is not something I will ever do or condone.

Let them rot in a cell with no access to sunlight, exercise, parole, or even TV and pizza if you want - but don't kill them.  Give them a Bible and verbal access to teachers and nothing else if you want - but don't kill them.
Salvation is not by chance.

true but it is not predetermined either.  Salvation is partly due to a choice made by each of us or else it makes no sense at all.  If we truly love even our enemies then we have no right to tell them they have had their last opportunity to respond to God's grace and choose Christ.
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Krakenfürst
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« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2004, 02:51:34 AM »

Dear Fellow Christians,

There really should be no debate on this issue.  The question is one of fundamentals and it is the reason why MOST Christians are in favor of a death penalty while at the same time MOST Christians would concede that if the condemned person is brought to a saving knowledge of Christ during the interim between being sentenced and executed that person would be no less entitled to the fullness of God's grace.  First of all we have to realize that we are in effect ALL sentenced to death and indeed we will all die at some point.  If however by our actions or otherwise we die sooner rather than later, then even so we are all still under the same death sentence because we live in a sinful world that is overrun by this fatal disease that afflicts us all.  SIN!  We know what the wages of sin are, but why do we continue to sin?  Even so the Bible makes it clear that some sins lead to death in the flesh more readily than others.  One such sin is that of being one who takes an innocent life.  That person, even if he is saved afteward is usually resigned to the fact that he must forfeit his life prematurely on this earth for what he has done, but at the same time he can have reassurance, provided he believes upon the Lord, that in eternity his sins are forgiven.  I tell you the truth that if that person is truly saved he believes ever so much that he is justly going to die at the hands of the executioner, while at the same time he commits his eternal judgement to Christ who after all paid the ultimate price for us all by his own death.  There is an enormous difference between the death of one so perfect and the death of a sinner and we are in no position to judge the eternal condition of anyone who claims to be commited to Christ even though we are entitled to judge and merit justice according to the law on earth.  In the first place the death of Christ freed us from the fear of the second death of eternal separation from God and its accompanying torments that also come as a result of breaking God's law in this life, but that belief has in no way released us from the brief and perhaps untimely, just or unjust or even painful reality of death in this life regardless of our eternal position in Christ.  For it is also written that it is appointed to everyone a time to die and we should focus on the fact that it is the ressurection of Christ that gives us hope for eternal life while it is the death Christ that provides for our underserved forgiveness and satisfaction for our sins in this life that otherwise would prevent us from ever entering into the presence of God.  Even so, we should endeavor not to sin in this life as we should emulate Christ as much as we are able.  But do not fool yourseleves into thinking it is OK to sin, for God's eternal blessings and rewards are not bestowed upon the sinner but rather the saint who is in Christ.  That is how God sees us through Christ.  And it is in that respect that we can even faithfully die with his name upon our lips and that is also why it is said that God rejoices in the death of His saints, those who remain faithful to Jesus Christ, who do not fear death, who overcome by the word of their testimony.  That my friend holds true for us all, and is no less expected even of those on death row for something they did previously in this life for in that regard we are in equal standing before God.

Kraken
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« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2004, 04:40:48 AM »

When someone is executed or the death penalty applied if you will, you remove that person's last chance to accept Christ.  That is not something I will ever do or condone.

If you put a murderer to death, you do remove his chances of accepting Christ.
However, if he gets released or escapes from prison, he will be able to murder again (or he could murder someone in the prision.)
If he takes the life of an unbeliever, then they have no chance of accepting Christ. He may take the lives of several unbelievers.
A lot of people could wind up never having the chance to hear the Gospel all because a murderer wasn't put to death.

Quote
Let them rot in a cell with no access to sunlight, exercise, parole, or even TV and pizza if you want - but don't kill them.  Give them a Bible and verbal access to teachers and nothing else if you want - but don't kill them.

First off, that is cruel!
Second, what if they don't want to hear the Gospel? You can't force someone to accept Christ. By giving them nothing but a Bible you are forcing Christ on them.
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michael_legna
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« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2004, 08:17:02 AM »


Quote
Quote
When someone is executed or the death penalty applied if you will, you remove that person's last chance to accept Christ.  That is not something I will ever do or condone.

If you put a murderer to death, you do remove his chances of accepting Christ.
However, if he gets released or escapes from prison, he will be able to murder again (or he could murder someone in the prision.)
If he takes the life of an unbeliever, then they have no chance of accepting Christ. He may take the lives of several unbelievers.
A lot of people could wind up never having the chance to hear the Gospel all because a murderer wasn't put to death.

You cannot predict the future so you cannot base how you treat people by how the future might unfold.  But if prisons were run strictly enough there would be no chance for escape and with no parole there would danger from those convicted of the more serious crimes.

Quote
Quote
Let them rot in a cell with no access to sunlight, exercise, parole, or even TV and pizza if you want - but don't kill them.  Give them a Bible and verbal access to teachers and nothing else if you want - but don't kill them.

First off, that is cruel!

I was speaking in hyperbole - you can tell that because I threw in the sarcasm about TV and pizza.  Though the prisons I would put in place would be uncomfortable (providing only the barest minimum of necessities to live) they would hardly be cruel - certainly not as cruel as killing someone and removing their last chance to accept Christ and His message.  

Quote
Second, what if they don't want to hear the Gospel? You can't force someone to accept Christ. By giving them nothing but a Bible you are forcing Christ on them.

If they don't want to accept Christ now, then they don't have to but that doesn't mean they won't want to accept Him in the future.  I am not forcing Christ on them, I am merely providing what they need to discover Him.  I am not advocating brainwashing.  I am just saying that materials we deem as good for them (such as access to the Bible) will be provided, and items that are not needed for survival (such as Sport Illustrated) will not be provided and further more, items that would be bad for them (such as Hustler magazine) would not be provided.  They would get all they NEEDED and nothing more except int he areas where they might have an opportunity to grow spiritually.  That is hardly cruel.
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« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2004, 09:22:11 AM »

Jesus said that we are to render to Caesar what's caesar's and render to God what is God's. He tells us as Christians to turn the other cheek. And I, as a Christian, do. But if the head of state or any government turned the other cheek when our country is attacked, he is making that decision for the people for whom he is responsible. He is then accountable for their deaths instead of allowing them to make their own decisions about their response to evil. When a government deems that a person is a danger to society and more lives would be saved by his death, then I believe the death penalty is instituted for the best interests of the public. Here, motive is the key. Jesus talks about what is in our hearts which is the core of his teaching. The death penalty is not coming out of malice or hatred but out of what is beneficial to our soceity. This is why I think that only serial killers or mass murderers should be executed. Even though a person who's been convicted of only one murder has not allowed his victim a second chance, i think we need to allow a one-time convicted murderer a second chance.  
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michael_legna
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« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2004, 03:01:14 PM »


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Jesus said that we are to render to Caesar what's caesar's and render to God what is God's.

You have a lot more work to do before you can prove that the killing of criminals is properly to be claimed by the government as something we owe to them.

Quote
He tells us as Christians to turn the other cheek. And I, as a Christian, do. But if the head of state or any government turned the other cheek when our country is attacked, he is making that decision for the people for whom he is responsible. He is then accountable for their deaths instead of allowing them to make their own decisions about their response to evil.

If you think the people of any country even one that is semi-democratic like our own ever make their own decisions about response to evil you are seriously naive.  The government always makes those decisions for us.

Quote
When a government deems that a person is a danger to society and more lives would be saved by his death, then I believe the death penalty is instituted for the best interests of the public.

My point is not that the government should turn a blind eye but that there is fully sufficient alternatives to capital punishment that keep the country safe while at the same time not ending the persons life.

Quote
Here, motive is the key. Jesus talks about what is in our hearts which is the core of his teaching. The death penalty is not coming out of malice or hatred but out of what is beneficial to our soceity. This is why I think that only serial killers or mass murderers should be executed. Even though a person who's been convicted of only one murder has not allowed his victim a second chance, i think we need to allow a one-time convicted murderer a second chance.  

If there was clear evidence of a danger to the country that could not be addressed through tightened security I would agree with you but that is not the case.  I don't doubbt your motives but there are a large number of people in this country who view capital punishment as justice and vengance and that is wrong.  The point is that regardless of our motives there is a alternative to captial punishement which we are ignoring and that is simple life long imprisonment with a minimum of frills.  We have been led byt the sociologists and other liberals to believe that this is unworkable and cruel but I do not accept that evaluation - certainly not when compared to the ending of someones life.
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« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2004, 12:43:19 AM »


The death penalty isn't about protection - lifelong incarceration achieves that just as well.  The death penalty is about vengance, and vengance isn't ours to give out.
Bingo, it is the Lord that hands out vengance. Great posted ebia, thats what everyone wanted to know about me. Is why I didn't want the death penalty. Its not mine to ask for or, to request.
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