DISCUSSION FORUMS
MAIN MENU
Home
Help
Advanced Search
Recent Posts
Site Statistics
Who's Online
Forum Rules
Bible Resources
• Bible Study Aids
• Bible Devotionals
• Audio Sermons
Community
• ChristiansUnite Blogs
• Christian Forums
• Facebook Apps
Web Search
• Christian Family Sites
• Top Christian Sites
• Christian RSS Feeds
Family Life
• Christian Finance
• ChristiansUnite KIDS
Shop
• Christian Magazines
• Christian Book Store
Read
• Christian News
• Christian Columns
• Christian Song Lyrics
• Christian Mailing Lists
Connect
• Christian Singles
• Christian Classifieds
Graphics
• Free Christian Clipart
• Christian Wallpaper
Fun Stuff
• Clean Christian Jokes
• Bible Trivia Quiz
• Online Video Games
• Bible Crosswords
Webmasters
• Christian Guestbooks
• Banner Exchange
• Dynamic Content

Subscribe to our Free Newsletter.
Enter your email address:

ChristiansUnite
Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
June 25, 2017, 06:38:23 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Jesus Christ loves you.
277052 Posts in 26303 Topics by 3790 Members
Latest Member: Goodwin
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  ChristiansUnite Forums
|-+  Theology
| |-+  Debate (Moderator: admin)
| | |-+  death penalty right or wrong?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: death penalty right or wrong?  (Read 5099 times)
infotechadviser
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 33


He whom the Son sets free, is free indeed!


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2004, 03:02:52 PM »

So you think women should be stoned to death for adultery, and children mauled to death by bears for teasing?

That is a question that is loaded with an emotion payload. You have to be aware I meant no such thing. You could've asked. Naughty naughty.

My main point is if you start bringing God into the equation, you just might get what you wished for. Meaning, "it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the almighty God". However, He is merciful and faithful to forgive us our sins.

If you say the New Testament nullified the death penalty, you should try reading Jude. The adulterous woman walked. Jesus knows who to let walk. Ourselves, we need a jury of twelve peers. But don't forget: he took the time to elaborate a very nasty bullwhip and walked into the Temple of Solomon and physically whipped those moneychangers right out of that Temple.

(You're not going to say I advocate instituting whipping are you? <g>)
Logged
ebia
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 981


umm


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2004, 03:56:37 AM »

So you think women should be stoned to death for adultery, and children mauled to death by bears for teasing?

That is a question that is loaded with an emotion payload. You have to be aware I meant no such thing. You could've asked. Naughty naughty.
Of course it's a loaded question.  It's a device for pointing out the absurdity of your argument.

If you use the OT laws to support the death penalty for murder, you can use them just as well to support the death penalty for adultery, and either death by bears is an appropriate punishment for teasing or it isnt.




Quote
If you say the New Testament nullified the death penalty, you should try reading Jude. The adulterous woman walked. Jesus knows who to let walk. Ourselves, we need a jury of twelve peers.

The 12 peer decide who is and isn't guilty, not the punishment.  Jesus didn't say she wasn't guilty - he said she was, but shouldn't be stoned.

Do you, or do you not support the death penalty for adultery according to OT laws?
Logged

"You shall know the truth, the truth shall set you free.

Christ doesn't need lies or censorship.
Gracey
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 399


...still just a child


View Profile WWW
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2004, 01:32:09 PM »

This isn't following anyone else's line of argument, but what if.....

well, what if someone is wrongly convicted? That has happened. The death penalty is pretty final; can't be reversed; at least imprisonment (while it can't be reversed) isn't final (unless the person dies in jail).

We don't have the death penalty, but because I am not entirely sure, I'm glad I wouldn't have to decide about it. I wouldn't want to be on a jury for a trial with the death penalty.

Gracey

Logged

Guided by God
Shammu
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 32182


B(asic) I(nstructions) B(efore) L(eaving) E(arth)


View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2004, 04:19:14 AM »

The death penalty is not right. The Bible says we should love one another, this includes murderers. They need forgivness, and learn that God loves them. Granted I know I am one of a few that believe this.
Not only that but, who am I to judge someone else. When I will be judged for judging {insert name} for murder?
The Bible says, Judge ye not, lest ye be judged.
Logged

Reba
Guest
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2004, 11:26:32 AM »

Dreamweaver,

I will believe you are sincere when you invite some one like Charlie Manson into your life and home. Do you lock your doors? If you do you have judged someone to not be honest. If you do not allow a child molester to babyset  your children you are judging them to be unsafe for your kids.

There is a standard of judgment we as christians and just plain desent people need to use.  I understand the above to be outlandish so are we talking about degrees?

We are to judge a righteous judgment

John 7:24

24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
KJV



Hitch is my brother many here know him as rude and a jerk... another brother( Jack) would be accepted here quickly and openly. Because i have known them all my life  Wink  In my view and i am not saying i am righteous Hitch is the MUCH better man then Jack. I could trust Hitch with everything i love  own care about etc.  Jack would say the right words ..... Surface judgments are most often out of line, but i bet Blackeyedpeas can spot a bad guy quickly.


Judge not least ye be judged  

  I can not judge another for  gossip because i gossip which is evil.
I could judge my hubby for cheating ... i have never cheated (and we have been married a million years)

I stole from my mom when i was a kid i do not deal harshly with kids doing the same but work to correct them.

Judging myself keeps me in check  i can in a way hold others to the account as i hold myself.


Some times i ramble  i do hope i have not confused you or  the issue at hand.
Logged
His_child
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 357


Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2004, 01:15:57 PM »

The death penalty is not right. The Bible says we should love one another, this includes murderers. They need forgivness, and learn that God loves them. Granted I know I am one of a few that believe this.
Not only that but, who am I to judge someone else. When I will be judged for judging {insert name} for murder?
The Bible says, Judge ye not, lest ye be judged.

Parents who love their children punish them as necessary.

A friend of mine forgave her husband for adultry. She still loves him. He refused to give up the other woman. So, my friend forgave him again and divorced him and continues to love him (as a friend).

Not letting someone get away with a sin takes more courage and love than letting them live in sin.

Putting someone in prison for life is a terrible and unjust punishment. It punishes the criminal and the society around them.  
Logged

I'm not following a God that's imagined.
Can't invent His deity.
That's why Jesus is the final answer
To Who I want my God to be.
He's Who I want my God to be.
-  Who? by Peter Furler and Steve Taylor (Newsboys)
C C
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 176

loving your neighbor includes your neighbor


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2004, 03:32:24 PM »

I don't call it "the death penalty"  I call it self-protection.

And I don't think the Mauling by bears is a good example.   A human prophet got all angry and his feelings hurt and had a temper tantrum and in a moment of passion he used curse words!  Words have power and the effects were unfortunate.  I don't think the example is that kids should die for calling old men "bald head".  I think the example is that our words have power to harm or to hurt.  If everyone, especially people that are walking in the power of God, would notice how their words have power and the effects of their words have on things, people would be lots more careful with their words.
Logged

Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you would include not finding your neighbor's biggest fault and then harping on it as if it were your mission.
Shammu
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 32182


B(asic) I(nstructions) B(efore) L(eaving) E(arth)


View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2004, 01:17:28 AM »

Dreamweaver,

I will believe you are sincere when you invite some one like Charlie Manson into your life and home. Do you lock your doors? If you do you have judged someone to not be honest. If you do not allow a child molester to babyset  your children you are judging them to be unsafe for your kids.

There is a standard of judgment we as christians and just plain desent people need to use.  I understand the above to be outlandish so are we talking about degrees?

We are to judge a righteous judgment

John 7:24

24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
KJV



Hitch is my brother many here know him as rude and a jerk... another brother( Jack) would be accepted here quickly and openly. Because i have known them all my life  Wink  In my view and i am not saying i am righteous Hitch is the MUCH better man then Jack. I could trust Hitch with everything i love  own care about etc.  Jack would say the right words ..... Surface judgments are most often out of line, but i bet Blackeyedpeas can spot a bad guy quickly.


Judge not least ye be judged  

  I can not judge another for  gossip because i gossip which is evil.
I could judge my hubby for cheating ... i have never cheated (and we have been married a million years)

I stole from my mom when i was a kid i do not deal harshly with kids doing the same but work to correct them.

Judging myself keeps me in check  i can in a way hold others to the account as i hold myself.


Some times i ramble  i do hope i have not confused you or  the issue at hand.
My doors are open right now, I don't lock them. Where as you may live in the city, I live in the country. All my neighbors have their doors unlocked. If some one wants to steal from me, that fine I hope they need it. The thing though is that all my neighbors watch each others homes when we aren't home. And the cops would be called in a few moments after that person broke in.
No I wouldn't allow a child molester to babysit, my children. My kids are full grown.  Grin
I would how ever, allow a child molester to sit and talk with me. I would try and teach them the meaning of the word from God. Show them what Gods loves means to me, and pray for them.
I have spoken with murderers, and have gotten 1 to come to the Lord. He now is the assitance Pastor in prison.
Logged

C C
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 176

loving your neighbor includes your neighbor


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2004, 01:42:18 PM »

Dreamweaver!   Grin

A woman after my own heart?Huh??  I always get myself in a world of trouble for not enough judgeing.  It's not like I'm not discerning.  I know full well the trouble and danger I put myself into when I associate with folks who have clearly in the past made BIG BIG BIG mistakes.  But I don't give up hope for them to make changes.  There's times though when it  can get dangerous, and there's lots of folks out there that we are soooo worried about because they're so naive and defenseless  among hateful dangerous people who would love to hurt and harm and destroy.  We never let Satan just have his way without stopping him.  And so we shouldn't let people that are out to hurt and harm and destroy have their way.  They must be stopped.   Grin  I ramble too.  Anyway, the Bible says, "judge not" but it doesn't say "discern not".  It says to be WISE as SERPANTS and it says that for a reason.  But it also says be harmless as doves and it says that for a reason.  For by what measure you judge others, God will also judge you.  So, this means that on judgement day, all the legalists are going to come up short on the glory of God.  It's not like they're not saved, but when it comes time for God to hand out prizes, the legalists are going to look at their prize and say, "is this all I get?Huh"  And the Lord will have to tell them, "Well, you were such a harsh judge, that I have to judge you harshly.  His Words wont pass away"   Grin  

One of my favorite radio pastors says that legalist are like roaches.   Grin  I agree!  Legalists  Tongue  are like roaches.   Cool  You can't get rid of them.

Like I said, I think the death penalty is self-protection.  There's times when Christ requires us to turn the other cheeck and there's times when Christ requires us to protect our loved ones.  So, punishment for crimes requires both justice and mercy which requires discernment, wisdom, love and none of that can be gotten if there's anger and resentment and the spirit of revenge.  AND YET peace requires punishment for crimes and discipline and peace REQUIRES RIGHTEOUS ANGER.  There are consequences for our actions.  And the Bible doesn't say if a person is out raping and butchering children we should have to feed them and house them the rest of their lives.  Unless we decide to be our brother's keeper.  I strongly believe that society MUST protect itself as a society.  So, it's just as hard a question for me, as many other questions.  I don't think any certain circumstance is exactly the same as the next.  But I do believe that "the death penalty" is really about self-protection.

Peace
Logged

Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you would include not finding your neighbor's biggest fault and then harping on it as if it were your mission.
Reba
Guest
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2004, 02:13:28 PM »

My doors are open right now, I don't lock them. Where as you may live in the city, I live in the country. All my neighbors have their doors unlocked. If some one wants to steal from me, that fine I hope they need it. The thing though is that all my neighbors watch each others homes when we aren't home. And the cops would be called in a few moments after that person broke in.
No I wouldn't allow a child molester to babysit, my children. My kids are full grown.  Grin
I would how ever, allow a child molester to sit and talk with me. I would try and teach them the meaning of the word from God. Show them what Gods loves means to me, and pray for them.
I have spoken with murderers, and have gotten 1 to come to the Lord. He now is the assitance Pastor in prison.

I have spoken with murderers, and have gotten 1 to come to the Lord. He now is the assitance Pastor in prison.

James 5:20

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
KJV

Wonderfull Dreamweaver!

Logged
Shammu
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 32182


B(asic) I(nstructions) B(efore) L(eaving) E(arth)


View Profile WWW
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2004, 03:40:25 PM »

Dreamweaver!   Grin

A woman after my own heart?Huh??  I always get myself in a world of trouble for not enough judgeing.  It's not like I'm not discerning.  I know full well the trouble and danger I put myself into when I associate with folks who have clearly in the past made BIG BIG BIG mistakes.  But I don't give up hope for them to make changes.  There's times though when it  can get dangerous, and there's lots of folks out there that we are soooo worried about because they're so naive and defenseless  among hateful dangerous people who would love to hurt and harm and destroy.  We never let Satan just have his way without stopping him.  And so we shouldn't let people that are out to hurt and harm and destroy have their way.  They must be stopped.   Grin  I ramble too.  Anyway, the Bible says, "judge not" but it doesn't say "discern not".  It says to be WISE as SERPANTS and it says that for a reason.  But it also says be harmless as doves and it says that for a reason.  For by what measure you judge others, God will also judge you.  So, this means that on judgement day, all the legalists are going to come up short on the glory of God.  It's not like they're not saved, but when it comes time for God to hand out prizes, the legalists are going to look at their prize and say, "is this all I get?Huh"  And the Lord will have to tell them, "Well, you were such a harsh judge, that I have to judge you harshly.  His Words wont pass away"   Grin  

One of my favorite radio pastors says that legalist are like roaches.   Grin  I agree!  Legalists  Tongue  are like roaches.   Cool  You can't get rid of them.

Like I said, I think the death penalty is self-protection.  There's times when Christ requires us to turn the other cheeck and there's times when Christ requires us to protect our loved ones.  So, punishment for crimes requires both justice and mercy which requires discernment, wisdom, love and none of that can be gotten if there's anger and resentment and the spirit of revenge.  AND YET peace requires punishment for crimes and discipline and peace REQUIRES RIGHTEOUS ANGER.  There are consequences for our actions.  And the Bible doesn't say if a person is out raping and butchering children we should have to feed them and house them the rest of their lives.  Unless we decide to be our brother's keeper.  I strongly believe that society MUST protect itself as a society.  So, it's just as hard a question for me, as many other questions.  I don't think any certain circumstance is exactly the same as the next.  But I do believe that "the death penalty" is really about self-protection.

Peace

Hmmmm.... I'm a guy not a gal.  Embarrassed
Logged

Reba
Guest
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2004, 03:52:15 PM »

It's the nick ...

Dreamweaver  Dreamweaver  

The air smells of  heather and lavender... i see inside the cottage, dust particals dancing in the sunlight shinning throught the open window  over her  simple loom a maid weaving the linnen with her hands while her heart is pondering the woven fabrics of her life...

Sorry   Lips Sealed  
Logged
Shammu
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 32182


B(asic) I(nstructions) B(efore) L(eaving) E(arth)


View Profile WWW
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2004, 12:10:43 AM »

The man I converted while serving time for murder? He is the man that murdered my wife, of 17 years. I have forgiven him, I know some of you will not understand. My wife is now with the Lord, thats all that counts.
I can forgive, I haven't forgotten, as I can't forget. You see, I still love my wife. I know I will see her again. Thats all that counts. I myself, didn't do this for any reward, I did it because, it is right.

Oh my nick........ is after the song by Gary Wright .... "DreamWeaver"
Logged

Reba
Guest
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2004, 12:41:43 AM »

The man I converted while serving time for murder? He is the man that murdered my wife, of 17 years. I have forgiven him, I know some of you will not understand. My wife is now with the Lord, thats all that counts.
I can forgive, I haven't forgotten, as I can't forget. You see, I still love my wife. I know I will see her again. Thats all that counts. I myself, didn't do this for any reward, I did it because, it is right.

Oh my nick........ is after the song by Gary Wright .... "DreamWeaver"

Luke 6:35-36
5 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
KJV
Logged
sincereheart
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4832


"and with His stripes we are healed." Isaiah 53:5


View Profile WWW
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2004, 06:21:44 AM »

The man I converted while serving time for murder? He is the man that murdered my wife, of 17 years. I have forgiven him, I know some of you will not understand. My wife is now with the Lord, thats all that counts.
I can forgive, I haven't forgotten, as I can't forget. You see, I still love my wife. I know I will see her again. Thats all that counts. I myself, didn't do this for any reward, I did it because, it is right.


WOW! I'm humbled.  Cry
Logged



Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



More From ChristiansUnite...    About Us | Privacy Policy | | ChristiansUnite.com Site Map | Statement of Beliefs



Copyright © 1999-2016 ChristiansUnite.com. All rights reserved.
Please send your questions, comments, or bug reports to the

Powered by SMF 1.1 RC2 | SMF © 2001-2005, Lewis Media