True teachings vs. false teachings

[_Christopher_]

Having no other Gods before our Father in heaven is false teaching? Boy are you out in left field, Rich. That's what all my posts have been about. I can see why you're worried about your salvation! You need to read the bible from start to finish, particularly Christ's words, since you disagree with so many of them. In them, you will find out that Jesus knows a lot more than you do. Apparently the catholic doctrine hasn't gotten you past the first commandment.

Let me break it down for you one more time.

Catholics do not worship anyone but God.

Read that again, slowly.  

Then if you feel the need to start yet another thread about how your own private interpretation of the Bible and the Church's teachings are correct, feel free.

[Heidi]

David Koresh said that he worshiped no one but God either. Our actions are what shows who we worship in our hearts, not our words. I know of NO born again Christian who calls the pope Holy Father. A born again Christian is born of the spirit and his new Father is God. Until you are born of the spirit, you will continue to only know your earthly fathers. The ones whose allegiance is to the pope have no reverence for their only Father in heaven. They only pay Him lip service. Otherwise, they would object to calling anyone in the world Holy Father just as Jesus objected to it. Again, you don't have to believe Jesus, Christopher. I do. You can put your faith in the pope.

[Rich]

Yea, i'm out in left field, wrong again, i'm a first baseman.
And what's up w/ David Koresh all the time?

[Brother Love]

David Koresh said that he worshiped no one but God either. Our actions are what shows who we worship in our hearts, not our words. I know of NO born again Christian who calls the pope Holy Father. A born again Christian is born of the spirit and his new Father is God. Until you are born of the spirit, you will continue to only know your earthly fathers. The ones whose allegiance is to the pope have no reverence for their only Father in heaven. They only pay Him lip service. Otherwise, they would object to calling anyone in the world Holy Father just as Jesus objected to it. Again, you don't have to believe Jesus, Christopher. I do. You can put your faith in the pope.

Good Preaching Heidi, Amen

Brother Love

[Heidi]

Thanks, Brother love. It's sure easy to spot the born again Christians from the "professed" Christians on this board. The professed Christians are loyal to the pope. The born again Christians are loyal to God. It's too bad one has to make a choice. But when someone takes the name that Jesus said is reserved for only ONE, then one does indeed have to make a choice.

[Gracey]

It's too bad one has to make a choice.

What choice are you making here? In another thread I distinctly recall you saying that we have no freedom of choice. Doesn't that mean that God orders everything you do? That you have no choice?

I am not trying to "jump" on you, I'm just trying to understand you. You tell us in other posts that God "controls" the universe, and therefore everything; now you say there is a choice?

Or, are you saying that it is God who controls whether or not we are "saved" by Christ, but He doesn't actually control everything we do?

It's difficult to understand, sometimes, what a person means without being able to see... when you are speaking face to face with someone it's much easier to tell (ie. body language, etc.)

Blessings
Gracey

[Heidi]

The holy Spirit is what allows me to see the truth. Jesus said; "And I will send you the Counselor who will lead you into all truth." It is the Holy Spirit that enables us to believe Christ's words, not my own sinful nature. I will stand against any teaching that contradicts Jesus's words. The born again Christians are the only ones who can see through false teachings because they are ruled by the Holy Spirit, not the devil.

I will explain what i mean by no free will through the anology of a parent. A parent can create an environment where her childred feel free to make "choices." The child thinks he is making his decisions when, in reality, it is the parent who is creating an environment for him to do so. That is how God treats us. He creates circumstances in our lives so that we will DESIRE Him. We think we are making the choice when in reality, we are selecting our least stressful option. God knows that we have to be able to understand why we need Him all by ourselves. I cannot tell my child why speeding is wrong, for example. He has to find out by himself. I can change his least stressful option any time i want. i can ground him, not ground him, take away privileges, etc. He will respond according to his least stressful option, all the while believing it is his free choice. God is allowing us the consequences of our behavior so that we feel free to want Him or reject Him. This is the ONLY way we can come to Him without feeling forced to. Thus, the responsibility lies with us. But in reality, God is ushering the circumstances in our lives. This interpretation combines allowing someone to take responsibility for his actions when in reality, God is in control the whole time! It also makes sense with all of scripture which seems to contradict itself about free will, but truly does not.

[Rich]

We stand against teachings that contradict Christs words as well. That's why there have been councils over the years, to
refute false teachings and clear up any other misinformed ideas. We're also guided by the Holy Spirit, Jesus promised the gates of hell would not prevail against us, and we believe Him.

[Gracey]

The child thinks he is making his decisions when, in reality, it is the parent who is creating an environment for him to do so.

This can only be partially true - when the child is young. What happens when the child grows up and becomes an adult?

Heidi, I am always happy to see someone studying and learning God's word, but you  have a tendency to put your own interpretation on things which certainly don't match what I have learned - learned through the Spirit - what I know to be truth.

God is gracious and merciful to us. Someday all of these differing opinions will fall away and we will stand in glory with HIM!

Gracey

[Reba]

I see many complaints about Heidi but you all respond to her posts...


There are enough false teachers to cover all the denomination i have seen.  I have never seen one denomo that has  truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth...

My nephew has gone from AofG to Catholic he says in no way does he worship anyone but God .... My friend was Catholic for 49 years , catholic schools and all, was considering being a 'sister'   she tells me she worshiped Mary... go figure .....

I have seen prods chase Benny Hinn around the country , in my view BH is a idol to many as was Kathren Koolmen (sp), Oral Roberts, AA Allen, Calvin, Billy Graham etc...
 

Mother Treasa worked side by side with Mark Bontain (sp)  2 wonderfull Christlike persons, selfless, giving, caring, for no personal gain, one a Catholic one a Prodistant.

Prods chase after this book and that book... this sign 'from' God that sign 'from' God. Many of us know more of what some modern day author has written than what the scriptures say yet we condem the writings of a nother.....

As a prod myself i believe we have enough to do in cleaning our own 'glass house' before we throw rocks..

[Gracey]

There are enough false teachers to cover all the denomination i have seen.  I have never seen one denomo that has  truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth..

How true.

The walk from christianity to eternity is a never ending learning experience, and if we don't allow ourselves to learn and grow and change, we will have a "hard row to hoe".  The willingness to learn and change with Christ.....

what we all need, I guess.

blessings
Gracey

[Heidi]

Gracey, we ALL put our own interpretations into Christ's words. That's why i initiated the thread about true vs. false teachings. When our interpretations agree with ALL of scripture and not just some of it, then they are true. My interpretation of free will incorporates BOTH the notions  that God is in control, AND that He allows us the belief that we have free will. Both the notion of free will and the notion that we don't have free will are in the bible. Most of the gospel of John talks about God being in control of everything, including Christ's power. In Romans, Paul talks about God's sovereign choice. God hardens whom He wants and has mercy on whom He wants. But there are also passages that talk about our accountability in believing Him. My interpretation explains how both can exist, yet how God is still the master of the universe.

When a child is older, he is still responding out of his least stressful option. Many people wonder why a battered woman stays with her husband. But she cannot leave her husband until her fear of her husband is stronger than ther fear of leaving him. She may desperately want to leave her husband but is ruled by fear. "We are slaves to whatever masters us." Nevertheless, we are accountable for our actions and it has to be that way! Paradoxically, once she realizes she is accountable, then that might give her the courage to leave her husband. But she HAD to hear that from someone! Therefore, she is dependant on her environment and the information she receives as the way to health. It's the same as in Nazi Germany. Why would any child who grew up in that era believe that Jews were good people? Where did he get that information? He cannot freely choose to love them if all the information he'd ever received was that they were not loveable.

This brings up Jesus's statement; "If I had not spoken to you you would not be guilty of sin. But now you are without excuse." We are all dependant on the circumstances around us, the info we have or don't have, etc. to make our "decisions." Our decisions will only be made out of who rules us, God or Satan. Once a person hears Jesus's words, he then is accountable for his 'decision" to go toward or away from Christ. This makes us all guilty. The ones take this to heart will seek Christ. The ones who do not care, will stay with Satan. God never denies a seeking heart. The ones with hardened hearts could care less about their salvation or they would seek God. Only God knows who is capable of understanding His word and who isn't. Therefore, His choice of hardening whom He wants to harden and having mercy upon whom He wants to have mercy is made from His knowledge of what each of us can handle. His will is much stronger than ours.

[Gracey]

Well, Heidi, I'm afraid this is one area (free will) where we are not going to come to agreement. But that's quite all right. If nothing else, it has made me (at least) examine what I believe and where that belief came from....and to seek the understanding I needed from Him!

Many blessings
Gracey
 

[Reba]

We stand against teachings that contradict Christs words as well. That's why there have been councils over the years, to
refute false teachings and clear up any other misinformed ideas. We're also guided by the Holy Spirit, Jesus promised the gates of hell would not prevail against us, and we believe Him.

Rich, when you say us do you mean the RCC and then does that imply the gate of hell will prevail against everyone who is not RCC?

[Tibby]

We stand against teachings that contradict Christs words as well. That's why there have been councils over the years, to
refute false teachings and clear up any other misinformed ideas. We're also guided by the Holy Spirit, Jesus promised the gates of hell would not prevail against us, and we believe Him.

Rich, when you say us do you mean the RCC and then does that imply the gate of hell will prevail against everyone who is not RCC?

Us is the Church, all Christians.