Seventh Day Adventists

[michael_legna]

I know that my mom became an SDA a few years back.
What little she speaks of her religion is very legalistic.

I don't know what you mean by legalistic. SDA's choose not to ignore important teachings in the Old Testament such as following all of the 10 commandments ( Exodus 20) and instructions on diet (Leviticus 11). Do you think that it's a coincidence that the only commandment that states "remember" is forgetten or ignored (Exodus 20:8-10)? I don't believe that works alone will guarantee anyone a spot in heaven.  It is true that God's love is unconditional. Also that accepting the gift he gave us on the cross is part of salvation. However, the best way to show love is by actions right. By following his teachings or what I call his instruction manual (the bible) we are showing the love we have for him. Words are meaningless without actions to support those words.

I think they mean legalistic in the sense that Christ taught us to fulfill the spirit of the law through love, not the letter of the law as our school teacher (the Old Testament) showed us we could not do.

Christ made it clear when He healed on the Sabbath that a legalistic adherance was not what God is looking for.  He is more concerned with mercy not sacrifice, and does not judge us if we honor one day above another.  That is why the Church chose to change the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

There is nothing wrong with worshipping on Saturday, but to teach that anything else is sinful, is wrong and based on a legalistic interpretation of scripture.

[Gracey]

Jesus said many times that He is Lord of the Sabbath Day (Matt. 12:.  SDA's agree with this: Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath Day;  Sabbath Day is His day -- in HIS own words. Why can't people believe Jesus' own words.

Just to be a little picky - with respect to the verse you quote the King James version (both the "Modern" and the "Standard") and the American Standard Version say this:

Mat 12:5  Or have you not read in the Law that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath and are blameless?
Mat 12:6  But I say to you that One greater than the temple is in this place.
Mat 12:7  But if you had known what this is, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice," you would not have condemned those who are not guilty.
Mat 12:8  For the Son of Man is Lord even of the sabbath.
Mat 12:9  And when He had departed from there, He went into their synagogue.

Mar 2:27  And He said to them, The sabbath came into being for man's sake, and not man for the sabbath's sake.
Mar 2:28  Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the sabbath.

In your quote you forgot that little word "even" - it changes the meaning of verse.

What this says is that he is Lord "even" or "also" of the sabbath; not just Lord of the sabbath. Even or also makes it inclusive of every day.

Jesus works and heals, even on the sabbath.

Personally, I worship on Sunday with my brothers and sisters in Christ, and every other day of the week on my own, however, I have nothing against those who worship on Saturday (or any other day, for that matter).

Unfortunately, the bible also contains some rather unhappy references to the sabbath:

Joh 5:16  And for this cause the Jews persecuted Jesus, because he did these things on the sabbath.
Joh 5:18  For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Joh 9:13  They bring to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind.
Joh 9:14  Now it was the sabbath on the day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
Joh 9:15  Again therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he received his sight. And he said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and I see.
Joh 9:16  Some therefore of the Pharisees said, This man is not from God, because he keepeth not the sabbath. But others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such signs? And there was division among them.

Regardless of whether we worship on Saturday or Sunday (or Wednesday) perhaps we would all do well to remember....

Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:


Gracey

[His_child]

I, like Gracey, worship on Sunday with my brothers and sisters in Christ and the rest of the week on my own.

I don't know any Christians who hate SDAs (or any other Saturday worshippers) because of the day they choose to worship.
I do hate it when they claim that Sunday worship is satanic.

[JudgeNot]

I've known many SDAs and have been to some of their seminars.  They are a lovely bunch - spirit filled and working in the spirit.  While I don't agree with all their teachings (their interpretation of the 144,000 for instance) and practices (veggie diets) I know some things for a fact:

They Worship Jesus Christ as God: 1/3rd of the Holy Trinity.  They know that the only way to the Father is through the Son.  That makes them Christians in my book.  

One last thing to point out - they read/study the same Bible versions we do, unlike the JW and LDS who "translated" their own versions or added complete volumes.

[Brother Love]

Cult

[His_child]

Why do many SDAs not eat pork, yet some do eat red meat?

[Yoyostick]

I don't believe SDA is a cult. I believe there are good Christians who hold to the SDA beliefs. However, the SDAs are most definitely wrong. Just to give you an example, the SDAs strictly follow Biblical teaching by worshiping on Saturday. But even they miss some important aspects. For instance, if you strictly follow the Bible and worship on Saturday, you also have to strictly follow the Biblical day. The Biblical day starts at sunset the day before and ends on the next sunset. So, even the SDAs are off, because their Saturday night services would actually be on Sunday morning according to the Biblical day. And according to that their Saturday morning services should actually be on Friday night.

What I'm trying to say here is that the SDA belief is way too strict. So strict, in fact, that even they don't follow it completely.

[Yoyostick]

You guys are missing something very important. The SDAs can't even say that Saturday IS the seventh day. True, Saturday is the seventh day in our calenders, but our calenders didn't come around until well after Creation! So for all we know, the day that God rested could be Tuesday.

Basically the SDA belief is too legalistic for its own good. If the world were to all of a sudden adopt a new calender that had the seventh day be where Thursday is now, what would the SDAs do? Now you might say that God expects us to worship on the seventh day whether its on Saturday (like the current calender) or on Wednesday (like a future calender might have) to honor His day of rest. But I think that is placing too much stock in worldy things. The world is always changing. We can't go chasing the seventh day around. God just wants us to honor a day, no matter when it is, and worship him and rest on that day.

"Oh foolish Galatians! . . . Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?"

[C C]

If it were called, "Love Thy Neighbor Adventists" that would be a whole different ball game.  I don't know much, but I do know that the best way to   feel righteous is to pick out the laws that are easiest for a person to keep and keep those and then make big deals about them and create a religion around them.  Then you can FEEL and LOOK righteous in and around everyone who agrees with you.  and you can isolate yourselves from anyone who thinks differently and you wont have to love your neighbor.  All the while bypassing the greatest commandments.  

[LadyKay4JC]

  As a Baptist we "worship God" on the "First" day of the week (as did the early churches after Christ's resurrection)... they met on the first day of the week.

Um... isn't the "Sabbath" old testament? I mean, in Hebrews it says that now we are under "Grace" not "The Law." If we have to live by the "old Testament" law then all our children that were unruly would be stoned! ROFL ROFL   YIKES! There would be alot more "respectful" children if we all lived TOTALLY by the Old Testament Law... heck, for that matter everyone one of us would have broken the 10 Commandments by now... where would that leave us?

Anyway.. I'm not condemning the SDA's... not at all.. I'm sure they love the Lord.  I was just speaking my "thoughts" that's all!  

Lady Kay

[BUTCHA]

why do you feel that way?

Dunno, but they make good cornflakes

huh?
SDAs make good cornflakes?
I don't understand the humor behind that.

 

's an Australian in-joke.
The Seventh Day Adventists are behind Sanitarium - a big health food and breakfast cereal producer in Australia.

thhhhhhhhhhheer  grrrrrrreat  frosted flakes

[creationist]

They pick and chose what laws they follow.

I’ve never seen my SDA friend's wife stay home when she has her period.
They claim that they are Nazarines, yet the Nazarines are not suppose to drink grape juice but they do. They also shave. The women don't cover their heads in church. They get involved in church matters etc etc etc.
There are many OT laws that they don’t follow. But just as someone said in a previous post "they only follow the easy laws."

[enfant de dieu1]

Jesus said many times that He is Lord of the Sabbath Day (Matt. 12:.  SDA's agree with this: Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath Day;  Sabbath Day is His day -- in HIS own words. Why can't people believe Jesus' own words.

Just to be a little picky - with respect to the verse you quote the King James version (both the "Modern" and the "Standard") and the American Standard Version say this:

Mat 12:5  Or have you not read in the Law that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath and are blameless?
Mat 12:6  But I say to you that One greater than the temple is in this place.
Mat 12:7  But if you had known what this is, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice," you would not have condemned those who are not guilty.
Mat 12:8  For the Son of Man is Lord even of the sabbath.
Mat 12:9  And when He had departed from there, He went into their synagogue.

Mar 2:27  And He said to them, The sabbath came into being for man's sake, and not man for the sabbath's sake.
Mar 2:28  Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the sabbath.

In your quote you forgot that little word "even" - it changes the meaning of verse.

What this says is that he is Lord "even" or "also" of the sabbath; not just Lord of the sabbath. Even or also makes it inclusive of every day.

Jesus works and heals, even on the sabbath.

Personally, I worship on Sunday with my brothers and sisters in Christ, and every other day of the week on my own, however, I have nothing against those who worship on Saturday (or any other day, for that matter).

Unfortunately, the bible also contains some rather unhappy references to the sabbath:

Joh 5:16  And for this cause the Jews persecuted Jesus, because he did these things on the sabbath.
Joh 5:18  For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Joh 9:13  They bring to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind.
Joh 9:14  Now it was the sabbath on the day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
Joh 9:15  Again therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he received his sight. And he said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and I see.
Joh 9:16  Some therefore of the Pharisees said, This man is not from God, because he keepeth not the sabbath. But others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such signs? And there was division among them.

Regardless of whether we worship on Saturday or Sunday (or Wednesday) perhaps we would all do well to remember....

Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:


Gracey

This is in response to anyone who stated that SDA's pick and choose laws and to the negative conotations of the Sabbath in the bible.

In the bible there are two types of laws mentioned in the New Testmanent...ceremonial law and moral law. Ceremonial law would be ritual matters such circumcision, meat offerings as atonement for sin and a women being isolated during her menstral cycle.
Ceremonial obligations such as these were ended at the cross not moral ten commandments.
The ten commandments do not deal with any ceremonial issues, they came straight from his mouth and  were edged into stone by God's own finger

The following verses are usually the verses used to support the claim that sabbath worship is no longer neccesary:

Galations 4:9,10 it states "But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage. You observe days and months and seasons and years. "

Also Colossians 2:16,17: "Therefore let no man judge you in food or in drink; or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths.""which are a shadow of things to come but the substance is of Christ."

To understand these verses you have to understand early Jewish customs. In Leviticus 23, it describes the difference between observing the sabbath and Sabbath festivals.   These festivals were celebrated specific sabbaths  once a year on fixed dates of certain months, such as the Passover sabbath on the fourteenth day of the first month. These are the ceremonial laws that were abolished. In Colossians it speaks of the festivals as being "a shadow of things to come". None of the 10 Commandments fit that description instead they are everlasting principles. Sabbath rest is actually dated all the way back to creation. The people at that time did not have any reason to confuse the different references of Sabbaths that Paul referred to  because  the Sabbath festivals did not occur regularly.

Grace and Law

Grace means pardon, love, mercy,kindness. It basically frees us from eternal condemnation or eternal death.

Yes we are saved by grace but grace does not free us from observing God's law. 1 John 3:4 says "Whosever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness."

If the moral laws were abolished then that would be that there is no sin Romans 4:15 states: "For where there is no law there is no transgression. "
 
It also states in Romans 7:7-14  that law and commandment are "holy", " just" and "good".   If you believe that Paul is speaking of abolishing all law then that would mean that the bible is contradicting itself because their are biblical references that up hold the law (moral law) and abolishing laws (ceremonial law) in the New Testament. The 10 commandments are moral laws because they are a vision of God's character. Everyone of them reveals to us how we can be more like him.

I am not here to comment on the state  of anyone salvation. I do  know however that along with his grace he gave us instructions to follow for our own good. I am far from perfect and I do not claim to have never broken a commandment . I have however have made a conscious effort to keep all of them and with God's love, grace and support I can and will continue to do his will.

[enfant de dieu1]

You guys are missing something very important. The SDAs can't even say that Saturday IS the seventh day. True, Saturday is the seventh day in our calenders, but our calenders didn't come around until well after Creation! So for all we know, the day that God rested could be Tuesday.

Basically the SDA belief is too legalistic for its own good. If the world were to all of a sudden adopt a new calender that had the seventh day be where Thursday is now, what would the SDAs do? Now you might say that God expects us to worship on the seventh day whether its on Saturday (like the current calender) or on Wednesday (like a future calender might have) to honor His day of rest. But I think that is placing too much stock in worldy things. The world is always changing. We can't go chasing the seventh day around. God just wants us to honor a day, no matter when it is, and worship him and rest on that day.

"Oh foolish Galatians! . . . Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?"

Actually SDA's open the Sabbath on Friday at sundown and close Sabbath on Saturday at Sundown. This is according to the original biblical calender that can be traced all the way back.
In Lev. 23:32 it states "from evening to evening  you shall celebrate your sabbath". The Isrealites were instructed on what was considered the 7th day and Jewish people even today continue to observe the Sabbath in the same manner.
Some translations state evening as "even" it still has the same meaning.
Mark 1:32: "And at even, when the sun did set, they bought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils."

Why is keeping every commandment important?

Exodus:20:8-10 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. "Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:"But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates"  

Do you think that it is a concidence that the Sabbath commandment is the only commandment that says Remember? Could it be that God was warning us against forgetting?
 
Also in Matt 19:16,17  is states "And, Behold one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him. Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God; but If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

THe Last book of the bible talks about keeping the commandments.
Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Revelation 14:12, “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”

When and how the change from Saturday to Sunday occured?

Jesus did not change the Sabbath.
Matt 5:17-19: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, will all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be call great in the kingdom of heaven. "

 Also in Matt 19:16,17  is states "And, Behold one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him. Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God; but If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

THe bible predicts that their would be an attempt by man to change the law.

Daniel 7:25: "He shall speak words against the Most High , and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and shall think to change the times and the law."

Man instituted the change not God.

Early Christians worshiped on Saturday. "The primitive Christians had a  great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the Day in Devotion and Sermons. And tis not to be doubted but they derived this pratice from the apostles themselves." (Mr Morer , Clergyman of church of England, "A discourse in six dialogues on the Name, Notion, and Observation of the Lord's Day, pg 189")

Socrates, the  fifth century church historian says almost all the churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath of ever week, yet the Christians of Alexandra and at Rome, on account of ancient tradition have ceased to do this" (Ecclesiastical History, book 5, chapter 22 in A Select Library of Nicene and Post-Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, 2d.series, vol2 pg 32)

Sunday worship started in Rome and spread throughout.
The earliest recognition of Sunday worship  by law was made in 321 A.D by the constitution of Constantine (Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed,art."Sunday").
The constitution states "On the venerable Day Of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed." (History of the Christian Church  by Phillip Scaff 1902 vol 3, pg 380)

Sunday worship was carried over from the Catholic church to protestant churches. According to Lucius Ferrraris, Prompta Billiotheca, "PaPa" article 2 the pope can modify divine law because his power is not of man but is of God.

This quote is taken from "The History of the Christian church" by N. Summerbell 1873 pg 415: "It [the Roman Catholic Church] reversed the fourth commandment by doing away with the Sabbath of God's word, and instituting Sunday as a holiday".

The Catechismus Romanus of 1867 published by the Vatican Press also states: "It pleased the church of God, that the religious celebration of the Sabbath day should be transfered the the Lord's Day"

Another acknoledgement of the change is in the "Manuel of Christian Doctrine" by Daniel Ferris 1916 pg 67:
"Ques-How prove you that the church hath power  to command feasts and holydays?" Answ-By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of ; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feast commanded by the church."

The catholic church also affirms that Saturday is the Sabbath. The converts catechism of catholic church by Peter Geiermann (1946 ed) pg 50 states that Saturday is the Sabbath but they observe Sunday instead of Saturday because "the catholic church  transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday".This was published with the blessing of Pope Pius X.

The Catholic church also acknowledges that their is no command in the bible for the sanctification of Sunday. Things Catholics Are Asked about  by Martin J. Scott. (1927 ed) pg 136 States "Nowhere in the bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday.  The fact is that the Church was in existence for several centuries before the bible was given to the world. The Church made the Bible, the Bible did not make the Church. Now the church....instituted by God's Authority. Sunday is the day of worship.  This same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made.  We have, thefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."  

Catholic church has this to say about Protestants worshipping on Sunday: "for ages all christian nations looked to the catholic church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of Labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath" (The American Catholic Quarterly Review, january 1883 pg 152)

"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrine the commandments of men" Matthew 4:10

Since Sunday worship is clearly santified by man not God, SDA's choose to follow the biblical command to observe the 7th day Sabbath.

[Gracey]

This is in response to anyone who stated that SDA's pick and choose laws and to the negative conotations of the Sabbath in the bible.

I can't even imagine why you might quote me,    but since you did; I didn't happen to state that the SDAs "pick and choose" their laws. I responded to a poster who had misquoted a verse and so I posted the verse in full, along the verses preceding to show context.

Secondly, the "negative connotations" which I call "unhappy references" are just that. Good things as well as bad things happened on what was considered the sabbath; and I meant nothing more than that. I'm sorry if you felt I did.

Personally, I worship on Sunday

and every other day of the week on my own,

Somehow, I don't think my God has a problem with this, or if He has, He hasn't hit me with it yet.

peace
Gracey