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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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Question: Are Seventh Day Adventists (SDAs) Christians or a cult?
Christian - 15 (48.4%)
Cult - 13 (41.9%)
undecided - 3 (9.7%)
Total Voters: 29

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C C
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« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2004, 03:12:50 PM »

Huh?  Not leaving the house when you're on your period, and women not talking in church, and folks running around making women cover their heads, GET A LIFE!!!!

Get an eternal Life.  It is for freedom that Christ has set us free!  Freedom from what?  Idiots that care about what's in and around their body are included in what we are freed from.  How about loving your neighbor enough to not be concerned about whether she's having her period when she leaves her house.  Hypocrits like the Pharasees worried about this stupid stuff.  Now their burning in hell too.   Cool

 Grin
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Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you would include not finding your neighbor's biggest fault and then harping on it as if it were your mission.
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« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2004, 03:52:02 PM »

Huh As a Baptist we "worship God" on the "First" day of the week (as did the early churches after Christ's resurrection)... they met on the first day of the week.

Um... isn't the "Sabbath" old testament? I mean, in Hebrews it says that now we are under "Grace" not "The Law." If we have to live by the "old Testament" law then all our children that were unruly would be stoned! ROFL ROFL   Lips Sealed YIKES! There would be alot more "respectful" children if we all lived TOTALLY by the Old Testament Law... heck, for that matter everyone one of us would have broken the 10 Commandments by now... where would that leave us?

Anyway.. I'm not condemning the SDA's... not at all.. I'm sure they love the Lord.  I was just speaking my "thoughts" that's all!  Wink

Lady Kay
"As a Baptist we "worship God" on the "First" day of the week (as did the early churches after Christ's resurrection)... they met on the first day of the week."

The bible relates many instances of the early Christians coming together or meeting "daily".

Ollie
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« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2004, 11:15:24 PM »

Didn't Paul tell us to meet on the first day of the week?
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I'm not following a God that's imagined.
Can't invent His deity.
That's why Jesus is the final answer
To Who I want my God to be.
He's Who I want my God to be.
-  Who? by Peter Furler and Steve Taylor (Newsboys)
C C
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« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2004, 01:51:25 PM »

 Grin  Jesus says that God made the Sabboth for man, not man for the Sabboth.  God gives us the Sabboth so we can REST not so we can make a big chore out of keeping the Sabboth.  Keep the Saboth Holy, means keeping that day SEPARATE and APART for it's own purpose.  We KNOW when we're coming up on the Saboth and we KNOW we get to rest and hang out and worship and do all the other stuff that isn't concerned with the rat race and the daily grind.  

Did anyone ever remember the story about How Jesus' desciples were eating grain on the Sabboth and the Pharasees had something to say about it and then Jesus told them they were full of crap?

Did anyone ever remember Jesus healing on the Sabboth?  

Did anyone ever remember that Jesus said if a sheep fell in a well we should go get it on the Sabboth?

Did anyone ever remember that Paul said EVEN if an angel in White came and taught another gospel you should not believe it.  Folks believe in Ellen White's writings because they're so full of detail and that's like if an angel in White came along and taught you another gospel that was full of details.  Does it get to replace the Freedom in Christ?HuhHuhHuhHuh?

NOOOTTT  It doesn't.  The Seventh Day Adv.  take away the Freedom in Christ that the true gospel gives to us.  Hence, it's another gospel.  And picking out one little law out of the ten and wrapping it around a whole bunch of rules is not what gets folks into a love relationship with the Lord and Savior Jesus.  

Satan tells One Million truths just to get in one little lie.  Satan will sit around and tell all kinds of truths, if he can just cloud your judgement about the things that are important.  Freedom, Justice, Mercy, Loving God and Loving your neighbor.  The Sabboth was created for us to rest on and in our rest we can visit with our Lord and have a relationship with Him.  The Saboth Day is not more important than Freedom, Justice, Mercy, Loving God and Loving your neighbor

Peace
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Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you would include not finding your neighbor's biggest fault and then harping on it as if it were your mission.
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« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2004, 01:43:44 AM »

Let us not forget that doing good on the Sabbath is a good thing. Jesus taught us this by healing on the Sabbath, etc..
Since we are on the topic of Jesus’ actions, does anyone remember Jesus going to the synagogue on the Sabbath (Seventh day)? (Mark 6:2)  Wink

“And picking out one little law out of the ten and wrapping it around a whole bunch of rules is not what gets folks into a love relationship with the Lord and Savior Jesus.”

Firstly, it because of our love for Christ and fellow man that we keep the 10 commandments. Jesus said "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15.

People seem to think that because we keep all 10 instead of 9 we are a bunch of legalists. Let us not mistake legalism for obedience. Jesus had to deal with the cold formalism of the Pharisees over and over again. And because He so thoroughly condemned the program of salvation by works, many have hastily assumed that He considered obedience unimportant. Now we need to see the beautiful balance in Christ's doctrine of faith and works. He taught that obeying in order to be saved is the worst kind of legalism, but obeying because we are saved is the acid test of a true religious experience. Obedience follows true faith just as surely as day follows night. Never forget that a legalist is one who believes that he can be saved by his works. The person who keeps the commandments because he doesn't want to displease the God he loves is not a legalist at all. There is nothing

Secondly “picking out one little law” is a big deal because if you break one you are guilty of all (James).

Finally I would like you to explain your term "Freedom in Christ". Thanks

We love the Lord just as much as you do. We are not a cult.




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His_child
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« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2004, 02:00:59 AM »

So which of the 10 Commandments prevents an SDA from eating pork?
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I'm not following a God that's imagined.
Can't invent His deity.
That's why Jesus is the final answer
To Who I want my God to be.
He's Who I want my God to be.
-  Who? by Peter Furler and Steve Taylor (Newsboys)
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« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2004, 12:26:28 PM »

Actually SDA's open the Sabbath on Friday at sundown and close Sabbath on Saturday at Sundown. This is according to the original biblical calender that can be traced all the way back.
In Lev. 23:32 it states "from evening to evening  you shall celebrate your sabbath". The Isrealites were instructed on what was considered the 7th day and Jewish people even today continue to observe the Sabbath in the same manner.
Do the Jews recognize Jesus as the savior?
Quote

When and how the change from Saturday to Sunday occured?

Jesus did not change the Sabbath.
Matt 5:17-19: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, will all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be call great in the kingdom of heaven. "
I put this post on another thread, I am going to repeat it.
The Sabbath day was changed, by God.
Unfortunately our translations of the Greek usually doesn’t show this. You have to look AT the Greek.
Young’s Literal Translation and Green’s Literal Translations are the only translations I know of that get this right.
Compare the King James, (and others), with Young’s.

Matthew 28:1  In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.  (KJV)
 
Matthew 28:1 ¶ And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

Strong’s Concordance doesn’t even do this correctly. Strong’s records ‘sabbath’ and ‘day of the week’ as coming from the word ‘sabbaton’. It is actually a derivative of the word sabbaton, ‘sabbatwn’. The ‘wn’ on the end marks it as a plural word.
Here’s how to check it out yourself.
Go to  http://www.olivetree.com/bible/index.html
In the left column click Greek NT.  
Next pick “Interlinear Greek/English New Testament from 1894”.
Under search type Sabbath. I got 55 entries. You’ll notice that different Greek words are given the same Strong’s number (4521).
Go down to Mathew 28:1. Highlight the Geek text that is used as sabbath, and copy it. Then paste the Greek word into the search. When you paste the Greek it will come out as sabbatwn.
This will show you everywhere that Greek word appears in the new testament. You will get 11 entries.
Everything in the bible is important, when it is repeated God is emphasizing it. Three times and it shouldn’t be ignored. The Lords birth only appears in three of the gospels.
This change in the sabbath was so important that God repeated it in ALL FOUR OF THE GOSPELS!
From the YLT:

Matthew 28:1 ¶ And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

Mark 16:1 ¶ And the sabbath having past, Mary the Magdalene, and Mary of James, and Salome, bought spices, that having come, they may anoint him,
Mark 16:2  and early in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, , they come unto the sepulchre, at the rising of the sun,

Luke 23:56  and having turned back, they made ready spices and ointments, and on the sabbath, indeed, they rested, according to the command.
Luke 24:1 ¶ And on the first of the sabbaths, , at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain others with them,

John 20:1 ¶ And on the first of the sabbaths, , Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb,

The sabbath pointed to the fact that there was nothing that we could contribute to our salvation. There is no work that man could do.
If you are going to follow the 7th day sabbath, you had better follow it completely. The sabbath breaker just picked up a few sticks, God said stone him to death.

Numbers 15:32  And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Numbers 15:33  And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Numbers 15:34  And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Numbers 15:35  And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Numbers 15:36  And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

In fact you had better follow all the ceremonial laws. The 7th day sabbath like the new moons and other ceremonial laws were shadows pointing to Christ.

Colossians 2:16 ¶  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:17  Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Once He went to the cross they were fulfilled and no longer are observed. He did not destroy the law He fulfilled it.

Matthew 5:17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The 7th day sabbath was a day of rest pointing to Christ. The 1st day sabbath is a day of work, working for God.
It is the day God began the creation, it is the day Jesus rose from the grave. We should be devoting this new sabbath to working for God. Visit the sick and the elderly, worship, teach your children, pray, read the bible, etc.
There are jobs that are necessary, but a Christian should at least try not to work at a job that is not necessary on the sabbath.
We certainly shouldn’t spend the day watching the Super Bowl, going to see the latest undead movie, or drinking with our buddies.
Quote
Man instituted the change not God.

Sunday worship started in Rome and spread throughout.
The earliest recognition of Sunday worship  by law was made in 321 A.D by the constitution of Constantine (Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed,art."Sunday").
The constitution states "On the venerable Day Of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed." (History of the Christian Church  by Phillip Scaff 1902 vol 3, pg 380)
http://www.biblestudy.org/godsrest/sunday-how-began.html
This is not true. The SDA scholar Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi grew up as a Seventh-day Adventist in Rome, Italy. He did his dissertation on this subject. In his research he found much earlier references to Sunday keeping. It has a decidedly strong SDA viewpoint, I only present it because he is an SDA source that refutes SDA belief.
“The earliest explicit references to Sunday keeping are found in the writings of Barnabas (about 135 A.D.) and Justin Martyr (about 150 A.D.).”
These are the earliest references, it does not mean that is when it started. Sunday keeping would have begun earlier.
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Luke 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2004, 12:58:21 PM »

Now Ellen White is another story.
As founder of their church the SDA have given Ellen authority.

1 Timothy 2:12  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

This is a commandment of God. The SDA have broken this commandment. She was far from silent.
The SDA Church believes Ellen G. White has new information even though it is easy to show God did not give her new information. If it was from God it would be accurate.
She can easily be shown to be a false prophet.
Ellen on earthquakes:
Mrs. White describes the cause of earthquakes: "At this time immense forests were buried. These have since been changed to coal, forming the extensive coal beds that now exist, and also yielding large quantities of oil. The coal and oil frequently ignite and burn beneath the surface of the earth. Thus rocks are heated, limestone is burned, and iron ore melted. The action of the water upon the lime adds fury to the intense heat, and causes
earthquakes, volcanoes, and fiery issues. As the fire and water come in contact with ledges of rock and ore, there are heavy explosions underground, which sound like muffled thunder. The air is hot and suffocating. Volcanic eruptions follow; and these often failing to give sufficient vent to the heated elements, the earth itself is convulsed, the ground heaves and swells like the waves of the sea, great fissures appear, and sometimes cities, villages, and burning mountains are swallowed up." (Patriarchs and Prophets, p.108).

*I hope I don’t have to explain where earthquakes really come from. VOLCANOES are caused by coal burning under the earth!!!!!!!!!!!! WACKO!!!!!!!!!!

Ellen on tea:
"The indulgence of... tea, coffee, tobacco, or liquor, is intemperance, and is at war with the laws of life and health. By using these forbidden articles a condition of things is created in the system which the Creator never designed. This indulgence in any of the members of the human family is sin!" (Evangelism, p. 266, written in 1899).
"Tea and coffee drinking is a sin, an injurious indulgence, which like other evils, injures the soul." (Counsels on Diet and Foods, p. 425, written in 1896).

*Obviously false, tea is healthy. In fact it is GOOD FOR YOU! It helps fight cancer.
Black tea is beneficial, Green tea is better, and White tea is best.

And one of the founding reasons for the SDA is Ellen’s vision concerning the sabbath.
Ellen on the sabbath:
“I saw that God had not changed the Sabbath, for He never changes. But the pope had changed it from the seventh to the first day of the week; for he was to change times and laws.” (Early Writings, p. 32)

*Dr. Bacchiocchi showed her vision to be false as noted in my previous post.
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Luke 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2004, 07:54:30 PM »

Ellen was told by GOD to tell all the women to wear their dresses bellow their ankles. When Ellen told her people this, they were outraged. So, she went back to GOD (supposedly) and GOD told HE changed HIS mind, they can wear their dresses where they like. That is not GOD’S character. She is just a “FALSE PROPHETESS!”
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« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2004, 07:49:40 PM »

I believe that the seventh Day adventist church is founded on bitterness Cry
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« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2004, 09:50:21 PM »

I believe that the seventh Day adventist church is founded on bitterness Cry
I don't know if bitterness was the foundation.
Ellen was struck in the head, by a rock, at age 9 and spent 3 weeks unconscious.
Most likely she was brain damaged.  Huh
The rock was thrown by a fellow student so I suppose there could be some bitterness involved.
Especially since her formal education ended at this point.
I wonder if from this point on she only worked to help her father make hats?
That could make a child bitter also.

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Luke 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2004, 10:14:56 PM »



  I am a   7th day adventist  and  they  are  NOT  a  cult.  They are a  religion that is practiced in a  church,  just  like  catholicism.   They  serve  God  just like you,  my  friend.   They  are  not a  cult.  Cults  are  made to  elevate  the individual  man or woman in status and power over others.  Churches  worship  the  Lord  of  Hosts.   peace.
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« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2004, 11:08:46 PM »



  I am a   7th day adventist  and  they  are  NOT  a  cult.  They are a  religion that is practiced in a  church,  just  like  catholicism.   They  serve  God  just like you,  my  friend.   They  are  not a  cult.  Cults  are  made to  elevate  the individual  man or woman in status and power over others.  Churches  worship  the  Lord  of  Hosts.   peace.
I am not too sure Catholicism isn’t a cult also. The line between what is or is not a cult is fuzzy.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From dictionary.com:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cult
---
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
---
n 1: adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/aff_termdefambiguity.htm
Rutgers University professor Benjamin Zablocki (1997) says that sociologists often distinguish "cult" from "church," "sect," and "denomination." Cults are innovative, fervent groups. If they become accepted into the mainstream, cults, in his view, lose their fervor and become more organized and integrated into the community; they become churches. When people within churches become dissatisfied and break off into fervent splinter groups, the new groups are called sects. As sects become more stolid and integrated into the community, they become denominations. Zablocki defines a cult as "an ideological organization held together by charismatic relationships and demanding total commitment." According to Zablocki, cults are at high risk of becoming abusive to members, in part because members' adulation of charismatic leaders contributes to their becoming corrupted by the power they seek and are accorded.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
True the Pope is an authoritative figure, so was Ellen White.
True both are false prophets.
ELLEN WHITE WAS ELEVATED IN STATUS AND POWER.
As founder of their church the SDA have given Ellen authority.

1 Timothy 2:12  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
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Luke 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2004, 05:27:25 AM »

1 Timothy 2:12  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


Checkmate!
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« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2004, 05:34:58 AM »

Just another C - U - L - T
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THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
Read it on line for "FREE"

http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/ttd_chap1.html

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