baptist faiths

[ollie]

Secular history shows it happened. The two predominate churches that eventually came out of the first, second, and third centuries were and are so far removed from the inspired word's of Peter, Paul, and others that one can see from Paul's reprimands to the young Christians in the first century that it was all very possible for this falling away to have started in Paul's time.

And what were these Churches? Heretics came out, yes, but I have never read of these two predominate churches so far removed. If you are going to make claims like this, cite them.


Actually, Allinall, you just went the long way around by coming to this belief on your own You could have just saved yourself the time and talked to a Catholic

"And what were these Churches? Heretics came out, yes, but I have never read of these two predominate churches so far removed. If you are going to make claims like this, cite them.".

The church that was at Rome and the churches of the East that became Eastern orthodox.

Ollie

[Tibby]

You might want to rethink your Christianity if you are reading and following a bible put together by Heretics...

[I_Believe]

You might want to rethink your Christianity if you are reading and following a bible put together by Heretics...

Scripture inspired by by God..."my words will by no means pass away"

Religion corrupted by man..."philosophy" and "the tradition of men"


Every writing inspired by God is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction which is in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17 WEB)

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away. (Luk 21:33 WEB)

But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'  "For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men...(Mar 7:7-8 WEB)

For the time will come when they will not listen to the sound doctrine, but, having itching ears, will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside to fables.
(2Ti 4:3-4 WEB)

As therefore you received Christ Jesus, the Lord, walk in him, rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith, even as you were taught, abounding in it in thanksgiving. Be careful that you don't let anyone rob you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, and not after Christ. (Col 2:6-8 WEB)

Test all things, and hold firmly that which is good. Abstain from every form of evil. May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1Th 5:21-23 WEB)

[I_Believe]

...Teaching as doctrine rules made by men...

...Good thing I'm Catholic!

In all fairness this appears to be a problem with all religions not just the Catholic flavor.

[Tibby]

To your first post: What are you saying? The bible fell out of the sky?

To you second post: I tend to lean toward the fact that this appears to be a problem with all religions but Catholic flavor. Ancient Catholics, from the same company that brought you the bible!

[I_Believe]

To your first post: What are you saying? The bible fell out of the sky?

To you second post: I tend to lean toward the fact that this appears to be a problem with all religions but Catholic flavor. Ancient Catholics, from the same company that brought you the bible!

Every writing inspired by God is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction which is in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17 WEB)

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away. (Luk 21:33 WEB)


God has preserved His Word in spite of man not because of man.


I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel; and there isn't another gospel. Only there are some who trouble you, and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any gospel other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed. As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any gospel other than that which you received, let him be cursed. (Gal 1:6-9 WEB)

Foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you not to obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth among you as crucified? I just want to learn this from you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now completed in the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain, if it is indeed in vain? He therefore who supplies the Spirit to you, and works miracles among you, does he do it by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Even as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness." (Gal 3:1-6 WEB)

He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints... that we may no longer be children, tossed back and forth and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error; but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him, who is the head, Christ; (Eph 4:11-15 WEB)


I'll stick with inspired scripture.

Others can choose to follow religious doctrine if they choose.

God removed the veil, the "church" created a new one.

[Tibby]

I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel;

I gotta be honest, I stopped reading your post after I read that line. What is that suppose to mean? Oh, I don't agree with you, so I must not be a Christian, because Mr. I_Believe is infallible or something?

[ollie]

You might want to rethink your Christianity if you are reading and following a bible put together by Heretics...

Been there, done that and knowledge in God's word finally freed me from the secular religions of man and brought me into the perfect law of liberty in Jesus Christ.

You need to study on the compiling and organization of the Bible and its contents and how it came to be even though some who helped compile it and organize it apostasized from the truth it contained.

The potentates of the church at Rome were not the sole possessor of the scriptures we know as the Bible, the word of God. How ever they did their utmost in trying to keep what they possesed from the people.

Knowledge of truth is power and eventually will bring to naught those that teach otherwise when it is found out. The potentates at Rome knew this and did everything in their power to prevent knowledge of the beautiful simplicity of the true church Christ is building.

Ollie

[Tibby]

I know how the bible came into being, but after this last post, I have my doubts on if you do.

As for the Church trying to keep the bible from people... well, to qoute early 90's pop-culture "Whatever!" Who did htey keep it from? The serfs who couldn't read and couldn't even afford a copy if they could? Yeah, like they where really dying to get there hands on a copy. The kings and lords? Yeah, maybe if the Priest had a death wish he could tell the king no! Who did they keep the bible from?

[I_Believe]

I gotta be honest, I stopped reading your post after I read that line.  What is that suppose to mean? Oh, I don't agree with you, so I must not be a Christian, because Mr. I_Believe is infallible or something?  

No person or group of people (Catholics included) are infallible.

As therefore you received Christ Jesus, the Lord, walk in him, rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith, even as you were taught, abounding in it in thanksgiving. Be careful that you don't let anyone rob you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, and not after Christ. (Col 2:6-8 WEB)

Test all things, and hold firmly that which is good. Abstain from every form of evil. May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1Th 5:21-23 WEB)

But God, being rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus; for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them. (Eph 2:4-10 WEB)

But to each one of us was the grace given according to the measure of the gift of Christ...He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Christ; (Eph 4:7-12 WEB)

GRACE + anything is not the gospel.

We are created in Christ Jesus for good works.


Scripture from God...religion from man.

[Tibby]

You're right, Catholics are not infallible. But that still doesn't answer my question.

[I_Believe]

Jesus Christ the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be carried about with different and strange doctrines, for it is good for the heart to be established with grace, not with foods, in which those who have walked in them were not helped. (Heb 13:8-9)


Saved by GRACE through FAITH Yesterday, today and forever!

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=2895&start=15

[Tibby]

That STILL does not answer my question. I ask you what you mean by:

I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel;

Now stop boosting your post count with spam and answer the question

[ollie]

I know how the bible came into being, but after this last post, I have my doubts on if you do.

As for the Church trying to keep the bible from people... well, to qoute early 90's pop-culture "Whatever!" Who did htey keep it from? The serfs who couldn't read and couldn't even afford a copy if they could? Yeah, like they where really dying to get there hands on a copy. The kings and lords? Yeah, maybe if the Priest had a death wish he could tell the king no! Who did they keep the bible from?

"Who did they keep the bible from?"

"Laymen"

Reference- Inquisition, Council at Toulouse, circa 1229.
Catholic Encycopedia 1913.


"I know how the bible came into being, but after this last post, I have my doubts on if you do."

Explain the scriptures in the hands of Eusebius, Clement, etc. at the end of the first century and beginning of the second century. The Roman Catholic church was not yet in existence.
There is no established proof that the council at Hippo in 329 AD was of a Roman inclination.

Ollie

[I_Believe]

Now stop boosting your post count with spam and answer the question

Do all Catholics consider scripture to be spam or is that your personal opinion? Were they just trying to protect the poor laymen from the scripture?

Truly I say to you, Unless you are converted and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Therefore whoever shall humble himself like this little child, this one is the greater in the kingdom of Heaven. (Mat 18:3-4)

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect. For the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those being lost, but to us being saved, it is the power of God. (1Co 1:17-18)

For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. (1Co 2:2-5)

CCC 1257: "The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation...The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude...God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism..."

That STILL does not answer my question.

Saved by GRACE through FAITH Yesterday, today and forever!

Test all things, and hold firmly that which is good. Abstain from every form of evil. May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1Th 5:21-23)