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rapha4u
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« on: December 25, 2003, 07:34:14 PM »

What does the Bible say about divorce? and the "Church"?
What affect has this had on our society?
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« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2003, 08:35:51 PM »


Hi rapha4u  Smiley

I assume you mean "divorce" in relation to the church.

To paraphrase, my understanding is that God hates divorce(from I believe Malachi, last book of the OT).

In the New, Jesus says in Mark(10:5) that for our hardness of heart God allows a certificate of divorce to be written.

Jesus goes on to say, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; (and vice versa).(v.11)



Essentially, divorce, in all its permutations, is the result somewhere of the hardness of heart.

Unless forgiveness enters the equation, the hardness of heart multiplies.

Until you have whole churches, literally, pregnant with hurting and, hardened, hearts.

Very hard hearts indeed.  Very hard.  

And I'm so sorry.  It is so sad.  And hard.


"For I hate divorce, says the Lord the God of Israel, and covering one's garment with violence, says the Lord of hosts.  So take heed to yourselves and do not be faithless."  (Malachi 2:16)



    Cry
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« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2003, 09:00:16 PM »

true. it also says that if your spouse commits adultery it is acceptable. or if you are married to a nonChristian and you're a Christian and they insist on leaving, you are not bound. God hates it, but you are not at fault under the above 2 circumstances.
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« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2003, 09:14:05 PM »


Yes, "...except for unchastity...", I think it says, maybe in I Corinthians.  And the nonChristian partner, also in the same passage I think ( 7?).

Interestingly, as I recall, Paul there seems to treat it very matter of fact.

Almost as if its a business relationship.

And along in there too, somewhere, he seems to regard the ideal of marriage as the betrothal, or engagement, stage.

I.e., if you could just stay, sorta like, "best friends".   Smiley

But that's off topic.  We're talking about getting divorced here, not married.   Lips Sealed



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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2003, 08:36:19 PM »

What does the Bible say about divorce? and the "Church"?
What affect has this had on our society?

1. God hates divorce.
2. God allows divorce for one reason ONLY -- adultery.
3. God also allows unbelieving spouses to "depart" or separate from their believing partners.
4. Society ignores God and His Word and does as it pleases.
5. In North America, more and more Christians are following "society" instead of God's Word. This is a part of the general "falling away" of Christendom before the coming of Christ.
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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2003, 09:37:18 PM »

Is divorce the question or remariage?

We cant stop or mates form divorcing us, if they do via our laws, as christians, do we then use those same laws to justify remarriage?
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rapha4u
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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2003, 09:49:15 PM »

llama,
 Thank you for responding to this query. Thank you also for starting, as Christ did {Matt.19:4), with the Creator, Who hates divorce (Mal.2:16). I believe there is only one reason for divorce, as you say, and that is for the hardness of “our” hearts. For societies sake, I believe, our Lord allowed divorce for “adultery” (pornea) or gross perversion. But in Christ the love that “perseveres” (1 Cor.13:7) is the law we are under.
 When Paul talks about “the unbeliever leaving” (1 Cor.7:15) it should be in the context of the whole of that chapter of “remaining in the situation he was in when God called him” (vs.20)
 I believe the so-called “church” is under God’s judgment and that is why the divorce rate is higher in the “church” than out in the world. The “leaders” are not preaching the truth in this area…
 I believe the “not bound” is not for the freedom to remarry but for the freedom to be single or be reconciled. Love, forgiveness and prayers are powerful weapons of our warfare.
 Wink
rapha4u

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« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2003, 11:56:24 PM »

What does the Bible say about divorce? and the "Church"?
What affect has this had on our society?

1. God hates divorce.
2. God allows divorce for one reason ONLY -- adultery.
3. God also allows unbelieving spouses to "depart" or separate from their believing partners.
4. Society ignores God and His Word and does as it pleases.
5. In North America, more and more Christians are following "society" instead of God's Word. This is a part of the general "falling away" of Christendom before the coming of Christ.

Well, the Bible does say that if an unbeliever divorces, then the believer isn't bound. I agree with you that professing Christians follow after society rather than the world-in all areas of life. The problem with divorce, though, is it takes two to get into a marriage, but only one to make the decision to leave. And that leaves the other Christian holding the bag. *sigh*
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« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2003, 12:15:57 PM »

Greetings,

The Word of God does not, teach anything anywhere about being set free to remarry another by divorcing ones husband or wife, believers who obey the Lord are to remain unmarried, unbelievers do whatever they plaese.
 
God never allowed divorce, it was Moses who allowed it, because of  hardness of their hearts,  and whosoever is bound to be divorced is to remain single, this is what the Lord has commanded.

Jesus made this very clear;

 It hath been said (you will not find God saying this anywhere is scripture), Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:   But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.  (Mat 5:31-32)

Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.   And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. (Mat 10:11-12)

For those who disagree with Jesus;

Consider these principles taught of Gods Word, elsewhere.

http://www.marriagedivorce.com/mdgodswordfulltext.htm

Malachi 2:13 - 17

"…You flood the Lord's altar with tears. You weep and wail because He no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. You ask, "Why?" It is because the Lord is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant."

"Has not the Lord made them one? In flesh and spirit they are His. And why one? Because He is seeking Godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit and do not break faith with the wife of your youth. "I hate divorce," says the Lord God of Israel, "and I hate a man covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the Lord Almighty. "So guard yourself in your spirit and do not break faith." (NIV)

Malachi's teaching:

1. Breaking faith with a covenant marriage partner is breaking faith with God.
2. The breaking of the covenant by a wayward spouse results in a severing of their relationship with God as He refuses to hear or pay attention to offerings or prayers, no matter how sincere. Obviously repentance must be sincere and restorative covenantly.
3. God was party to the marriage covenant as witness and an active participant by making the man and woman His own personal possession.
4. Faithfulness to the marriage covenant is necessary to produce Godly offspring. Without it the future of God's people is threatened.
5. The covenant relationship belongs to the wife or husband of the youth, the first one. This is the union that God is a witness to and the enforcer of.
6. Even though one of the parties may be unfaithful, as described here, to the original covenant, it remains in force for God says that the betrayed one remains the partner. This dispels the notion entirely that adultery dissolves the marriage covenant.
7. God twice warns specifically not to break faith with the spouse of your youth, the original union. These are direct warnings against divorce and remarriage.
8. Divorce is a spiritual attack with spiritual results and lasting spiritual consequences.
9. Divorce is a violent ripping away of the cloak covering the husband provides for his wife, and the wife for the husband.
10. God Hates Divorce! He truly does. That's why He never severs the covenant bonds and punishes those who violate them.

This is God's final word on marriage and divorce in the Old Testament. Those hoping to apply some earlier Old Testament provision allowing divorce and remarriage should be careful. God was increasingly leading people closer to the New Testament age in which we live. "



Look at what God says, concerning the prayers of a believing husband, who does not honor the wife of His youth, likewise I am sure the wifes prayers are hindered, if she does not submit to the authority of her husband over her.

1 Pet 3
5  For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6  Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
7  Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Blessings,

Petro
« Last Edit: December 28, 2003, 12:20:49 PM by Petro » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2003, 01:44:23 PM »

Petro,
 Thank you for your insightful response to this very tragic state of the "church". The statistics say that the divorce rate in the "church" is higher than in the "world". Of those who are initiating divorce 65% are women and if children are in the equation it's up to 85% of women initiating divorce . Is there something wrong with this picture?
 Thanks for the link. It's lengthy but I'll read it and, if I desern it's merits, will pass it on.
 We as a people need to repent! (Isa.6:5)
rapha4u

Greetings,

The Word of God does not, teach anything anywhere about being set free to remarry another by divorcing ones husband or wife, believers who obey the Lord are to remain unmarried, unbelievers do whatever they plaese.
 
God never allowed divorce, it was Moses who allowed it, because of  hardness of their hearts,  and whosoever is bound to be divorced is to remain single, this is what the Lord has commanded.

Jesus made this very clear;

 It hath been said (you will not find God saying this anywhere is scripture), Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:   But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.  (Mat 5:31-32)

Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.   And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. (Mat 10:11-12)

For those who disagree with Jesus;

Consider these principles taught of Gods Word, elsewhere.

http://www.marriagedivorce.com/mdgodswordfulltext.htm

Malachi 2:13 - 17

"…You flood the Lord's altar with tears. You weep and wail because He no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. You ask, "Why?" It is because the Lord is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant."

"Has not the Lord made them one? In flesh and spirit they are His. And why one? Because He is seeking Godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit and do not break faith with the wife of your youth. "I hate divorce," says the Lord God of Israel, "and I hate a man covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the Lord Almighty. "So guard yourself in your spirit and do not break faith." (NIV)

Malachi's teaching:

1. Breaking faith with a covenant marriage partner is breaking faith with God.
2. The breaking of the covenant by a wayward spouse results in a severing of their relationship with God as He refuses to hear or pay attention to offerings or prayers, no matter how sincere. Obviously repentance must be sincere and restorative covenantly.
3. God was party to the marriage covenant as witness and an active participant by making the man and woman His own personal possession.
4. Faithfulness to the marriage covenant is necessary to produce Godly offspring. Without it the future of God's people is threatened.
5. The covenant relationship belongs to the wife or husband of the youth, the first one. This is the union that God is a witness to and the enforcer of.
6. Even though one of the parties may be unfaithful, as described here, to the original covenant, it remains in force for God says that the betrayed one remains the partner. This dispels the notion entirely that adultery dissolves the marriage covenant.
7. God twice warns specifically not to break faith with the spouse of your youth, the original union. These are direct warnings against divorce and remarriage.
8. Divorce is a spiritual attack with spiritual results and lasting spiritual consequences.
9. Divorce is a violent ripping away of the cloak covering the husband provides for his wife, and the wife for the husband.
10. God Hates Divorce! He truly does. That's why He never severs the covenant bonds and punishes those who violate them.

This is God's final word on marriage and divorce in the Old Testament. Those hoping to apply some earlier Old Testament provision allowing divorce and remarriage should be careful. God was increasingly leading people closer to the New Testament age in which we live. "



Look at what God says, concerning the prayers of a believing husband, who does not honor the wife of His youth, likewise I am sure the wifes prayers are hindered, if she does not submit to the authority of her husband over her.

1 Pet 3
5  For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6  Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
7  Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Blessings,

Petro
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2003, 05:44:28 PM »

rapha4u,

Yes sir, it is a sad state of affairs, being a man, I can see that the problem lies in Christian women, chosing unbelieving men for husbands, as well as husbands for wives.  

In many cases, it is the presussres brought on by society, what with all the sex out of wedlock or relationships without any commitment, it is acceptable to moving in together and the need to look good, fit and trim, it is almost sickening the emphasis placed on the flesh rather than the Spirit.

Don't get me wrong, a little excersize is ok, but not to extremes.  

It is the Spirit that giveth life the flesh profiteth nothing, the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. (Jhn 6:63)



14  For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: [belse were your children unclean; but now are they holy.[/b]

Note the reason why, Moses allowed divorce;

1  Cor 7
14  For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

God does desire Godly offspring from families who are faithfull to Gods Word??

Absolutely,

God Bless,

Petro



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rapha4u
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2003, 08:03:06 PM »

Petro,
 I read Restoration of Christian Marriage A Call for Reformation
By Stephen W. Wilcox and did my flesh squirm!   Wink
Thank you again!
God is sooo good!  Grin
http://www.marriagedivorce.com/mdgodswordfulltext.htm

May the purification of His Church be our goal, to His glory (Pet.4:17) in the Name that's ubove all other names, our Lord Jesus Christ, so be it and whatever it takes...


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rapha4u
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2003, 08:18:56 PM »

Petro,
 I read Restoration of Christian Marriage A Call for Reformation
By Stephen W. Wilcox and did my flesh squirm!  I guess that means it's still able to move. (Rom.6:7, 11, 8:10, Col.3:3)  Wink
Thank you again!
God is sooo good!  Grin
http://www.marriagedivorce.com/mdgodswordfulltext.htm

May the purification of His Church be our goal, to His glory (Pet.4:17) in the Name that's ubove all other names, our Lord Jesus Christ, so be it and whatever it takes...



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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2003, 09:04:54 PM »

llama,
 Thank you for responding to this query. Thank you also for starting, as Christ did {Matt.19:4), with the Creator, Who hates divorce (Mal.2:16). I believe there is only one reason for divorce, as you say, and that is for the hardness of “our” hearts. For societies sake, I believe, our Lord allowed divorce for “adultery” (pornea) or gross perversion. But in Christ the love that “perseveres” (1 Cor.13:7) is the law we are under.
 When Paul talks about “the unbeliever leaving” (1 Cor.7:15) it should be in the context of the whole of that chapter of “remaining in the situation he was in when God called him” (vs.20)
 I believe the so-called “church” is under God’s judgment and that is why the divorce rate is higher in the “church” than out in the world. The “leaders” are not preaching the truth in this area…
 I believe the “not bound” is not for the freedom to remarry but for the freedom to be single or be reconciled. Love, forgiveness and prayers are powerful weapons of our warfare.
 Wink
rapha4u

Amen!

Petro, I think the remarriage is in the wording. It says, "except for fornication." Which means that in the case of fornication, adultery isn't an issue because the other person broke the covenant.

  It hath been said (you will not find God saying this anywhere is scripture), Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:  But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.  (Mat 5:31-32)

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« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2003, 06:43:17 PM »

Lets look at what Jesus said about divorce again....

It hath been said (you will not find God saying this anywhere is scripture), Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:  But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.  (Mat 5:31-32) KJV

What I have emboldened, plainly reads as follows;

"32  But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery.  And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.   English Standard Version

The only reason why anyone divorces a wife is because of the hardeness of his heart, since he will not forgive her,  her sexual immorality included.

Whether you will accept it or not the truth of this matter is that;

Sexual immorality is not the root cause for a wife straying, it really is grounded in the husbands neglect of his wife;  because unless a husband nurtures his relationship with his wife, to;

....dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; 1 Pet 3:7  

...wives will loose interest in their husbands especially if the husband is unfaithfull, and stray from the sanctity of marriage.

Now using your interpretation of this verse to teach Jesus allowed divorce and then remarriage with another, you have him contradicting himself, but as the scripture says;

Rom 3
4  ........, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.


Consider what Jesus goes on to say about this matter;

Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.  And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. (Mk 10:11-12) KJV

Easy to read version;

Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her , and if she divorces her husband and marries another she commits adultery.  English Standard Version

It is clear that no matter what the reason is for divorcing ones wife, to re-marry is to commit adultery against the first wife.

A man may divorce his wife for fonication, but nowhere does Jesus say, that he can re marry, both he and she are to remain single The apostle make this clear at 1 Cor 7.

If they marry to someone else, they commit adultery against each other, the only other option is to  remarry each other.

And God has made it clear He hates divorce, this his will, that none divorce his wife or husband, no matter what the reason, if one cannot live in peace with the wife of his youth, it is better to separate, than divorce, God can work and wants to reconcile husbands and wives one to the other, but if neither are willing to forgive each other, then their will is going to be done, regardless of what Gods will is..

He has spoken...


Blessings,

Petro

« Last Edit: December 29, 2003, 06:47:52 PM by Petro » Logged

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