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Author Topic: Divorce?  (Read 37137 times)
Sower
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« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2003, 10:22:23 AM »

Quote
author=cris
I think we need to know what the customs were in the time of Christ.

Cris:
Whenever the Lord spoke during His earthly ministry, He spoke for all ages, all times, and all customs. He was certainly not addressing Jewish customs exclusively in His teachings (other than to condemn the traditions of men).

In fact, in Mathew 5, the Lord took the interpretation of the Ten Commandments to the highest possible level and said: "But I say unto you that whosoever looketh on a woman TO LUST AFTER HER he hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" (verse 28). Here the Lord used the word "adultery" in the general sense of fornication [since "whosoever" could apply to married and unmarried men], and this Scripture applies to all ages and all times. We can also see from this that the words adultery and fornication have been used interchangeably.  

Quote
From what I understand, when a couple was engaged they were considered married even though the marriage was not consumated.  If either decided they didn't want to marry the other, they still had to divorce to do so.  Maybe Jesus was referring to just such a situation when He said except for fornication.
 
There are many who try to narrowly apply the words of Christ regarding divorce to "betrothal", but if that were the case the Lord would have made it clear -- God is not the author of confusion. Betrothal may be included but the teaching is for marriage as marriage.

Quote
If two people have consumated their marriage and one is unfaithful it's called adultery and neither are free to marry even if they divorce
.

That is one interpretation, but it flies in the face of Scripture. In Deuteronomy 24:1-4 we read: "When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favouor in his eyes... then let him write her a bill of divorcement... and when she is departed out of his house, SHE MAY GO AND BE ANOTHER MAN'S WIFE...".

In the NT, the Lord took this permissive ordinance of God [because of the hardness of your hearts] and ruled that this was no longer applicable, but that He would allow just one exception -- fornication or adultery [Vine's Expository Dictionary tells us that "in Matt. 5:32 and 19:19 [porneia or fornication, which is illicit gotcha146], stands for, or includes adultery".

Therefore it is only when the exception exists that there is an exception to re-marriage.
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cris
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« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2003, 12:34:01 PM »

Sower,

Depending on what denomination we are, we tend to espouse the interpretation of that denomination.  Besides the scripture allowing divorce on the grounds of fornication or adultery in Matt. 5-32, Jesus also said in Luke 16-18 that everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery.  In Matt. 5-32 Jesus says that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.  The man is divorcing his wife because she has already been unfaithful.  She is an adultress.  In this case the man can divorce her but it doesn't say he can remarry.  In fact, it says that (for whatever reason) a man divorces his wife and remarries he commits adultery.  If a man divorces his wife for other reasons, anyone who marries her commits adultery, including her.  If he remarries, he commits adultery.  I think the scripture is very clear here.  It doesn't seem fair but that's how it is.

I'm not sure but I think the original issue in this thread had to do with remarriage of a divorced person - whether or not it was allowed in the case of fornication or adultery.  The scripture allows divorce if the spouse is unfaithful but does not allow remarriage according to Luke 16 vs. 18.  I think God still considers two people married whether they divorce or not.  The marriage bond is forever.  The divorce paper is something else, probably protection for all parties involved.  At least, it was in the time of Christ.

cris
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Petro
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« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2003, 02:58:30 PM »

Here is the inspired answer;

Mat 19
4  And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5  And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7  They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8  He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9  And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10  His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
11  But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

Blessings,

Petro
« Last Edit: December 31, 2003, 03:01:36 PM by Petro » Logged

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« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2003, 03:47:51 PM »

I noticed you emboldened the last part. And it is true that many will not want to accept all of God's word. It happens every day.

But Jesus wasn't saying it was okay not to be able to accept His teaching. What He was saying, is that some couldn't, and if they can't, they should not put themselves in a position to sin.

But this does not mean we can edit out parts of what He says, because He is God and we are not.

The correct answer isn't the one that is harshest.
It isn't the one that is softest.
It isn't the one that is in the middle.

The correct one is the one that takes all of what God says, all of it, and applies it all correctly and with precision.
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rapha4u
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« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2003, 05:08:15 PM »

What does the Bible say about divorce? and the "Church"?
What affect has this had on our society?


Hellow rapha,

 Grin

I want to inject a new thought  into a somewhat tense interpretation of marriage.  

So what does the church think?  
 Well, those that have endured a divorce learn a new word, and it is

"justification"  

Just like they believe that when their sins are forgiven and God no longer remembers them, is is "just as if I'd" never sinned.  

People have "justified" divorce.... they seek forgiveness from God and think that it is "just as if I'd" never been married, and then they think they are "free" to marry again as though there was never a first marriage.

Justification is a forgiveness and a forgetting of sins, but those who are "just as if I'd" ---still have to live with the repercussions of their forgiven sins.  For example, if one smokes cigarettes for years, and seeks deliverance from that bad habit which harms the "temple" given by God, then certainly, the person is justified, their habit is "just as if I'd" never smoked cigarettes.  But justification doesn't take away the possibility of lung cancer because of their actions.

The same is true for marriage and divorce.  If one is "justified" of their divorce, that they have repented of their sins involved in the divorce, while the sin is justified, it doesn't make the marriage covenant with God disappear.  

God never changes.  He still hates divorce, and "justification" doesn't change that.

The "church" and the believers of the "church"  need to go back to the basics in marriage, and seek God's will.  
~serapha~

serapha,
Do you think this may be the reason the divorce rate in the "church" is greater than in the world?
rapha4u

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« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2003, 05:22:22 PM »

By the way,  go back to;
 1 Cor 7
1  Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2  For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3  So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Now ask yourself,

If a man can put his wife away for fornication, and he re marry, why is is his first wife still considered an adulteress, while he lives, and if he dies, she is no longer called ajn adulteresss, or as the Word says above;

she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Go figure...??
Blessings,
Petro
Petro,
 That's how we were set free from the bondage of sin! Christ died and we died in Him. That is a powerful truth. God is so awsome. When sin presents it's self just point it back to the cross. It died there and so did I. So I am now free to live the new life in Jesus Christ, glory!
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« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2003, 05:43:45 PM »


I noticed you emboldened the last part. And it is true that many will not want to accept all of God's word. It happens every day.

But Jesus wasn't saying it was okay not to be able to accept His teaching. What He was saying, is that some couldn't, and if they can't, they should not put themselves in a position to sin.

But this does not mean we can edit out parts of what He says, because He is God and we are not.

The correct answer isn't the one that is harshest.
It isn't the one that is softest.
It isn't the one that is in the middle.

The correct one is the one that takes all of what God says, all of it, and applies it all correctly and with precision.



Okay, well then what is the clear application with precision in this case, Whitehorse?


   Huh   Smiley
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« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2003, 05:47:26 PM »

What case?
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Symphony
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« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2003, 06:00:11 PM »


THE CASE HERE YOU ALL WERE TALKING ABOUT.


*sigh*
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Petro
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« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2003, 08:14:39 PM »

I noticed you emboldened the last part. And it is true that many will not want to accept all of God's word. It happens every day.

But Jesus wasn't saying it was okay not to be able to accept His teaching. What He was saying, is that some couldn't, and if they can't, they should not put themselves in a position to sin

But this does not mean we can edit out parts of what He says, because He is God and we are not.

The correct answer isn't the one that is harshest.
It isn't the one that is softest.
It isn't the one that is in the middle.

The correct one is the one that takes all of what God says, all of it, and applies it all correctly and with precision.







whitehorse,

OK...................?

What other sayings of God , can you add to what has or has not been said, already??

And,  To whom would you say, this saying is given??

Is it all men, or some men??

If it is all men, ...Why can not all men receive it, do you suppose??

If it isn't given to all men, will those to whom it is given, receive it??


Blessings,

Petro

PS  Here is the simpler translation;

All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.
 ESV

 
« Last Edit: December 31, 2003, 08:33:24 PM by Petro » Logged

Petro
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« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2003, 08:47:57 PM »

By the way,  go back to;
 1 Cor 7
1  Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2  For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3  So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Now ask yourself,

If a man can put his wife away for fornication, and he re marry, why is is his first wife still considered an adulteress, while he lives, and if he dies, she is no longer called ajn adulteresss, or as the Word says above;

she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Go figure...??
Blessings,
Petro
Petro,
 That's how we were set free from the bondage of sin! Christ died and we died in Him. That is a powerful truth. God is so awsome. When sin presents it's self just point it back to the cross. It died there and so did I. So I am now free to live the new life in Jesus Christ, glory!



rapha4u,


Amen, Brother,

But NOT all, can accept that.

Men want to add to this great truth, their own 2 mites ..

Now is it true, that what is written in the NT is...........;

... given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
 2Tim 3:16-17

If is true, them shouldn't men of God, believe it??

Even the blood shed at the cross covers the sin of adultery, which Gods children commit ignorantly or willingly.

That is how great, this truth is...

Have a blessed New Year, you and your family,

God Bless,

Petro

« Last Edit: December 31, 2003, 08:56:04 PM by Petro » Logged

Petro
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« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2004, 02:31:36 PM »

whitehorse,

I didn't say I disagreed with everything you posted;

Quote
But Jesus wasn't saying it was okay not to be able to accept His teaching. What He was saying, is that some couldn't, and if they can't, they should not put themselves in a position to sin

Can't is a word which is closely associated with the word won't.

Usually when children disobey there father or mother, it is because they won't, it is a matter of the will, because it has to do with obeying fathers word, not that they can't.

The fact is they can, but they do not want to.


Do you see it this way at all?


Blessings,
Petro
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« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2004, 03:14:14 PM »

Can't is a word which is closely associated with the word won't.

 


Ahem.  Sorry.  Couldn't resist.

Anyway, isn't the whole divorce question summed up in the simple statement:  "Unless our spouse dies any remarriage is adultery." ??


sorry.  I don't mean to be mean here.  Embarrassed  Isn't this sorta just the case?

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« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2004, 03:23:36 PM »

whitehorse,
I didn't say I disagreed with everything you posted;
Quote
But Jesus wasn't saying it was okay not to be able to accept His teaching. What He was saying, is that some couldn't, and if they can't, they should not put themselves in a position to sin
Can't is a word which is closely associated with the word won't.
Usually when children disobey there father or mother, it is because they won't, it is a matter of the will, because it has to do with obeying fathers word, not that they can't.
The fact is they can, but they do not want to.
Do you see it this way at all?
Blessings,
Petro
Petro,
Isa.1:19 I can see what you are saying and in my experience that is true. I'll see something I am unwilling to do and camp there, until the Lord in His wisdom moves me on to a place that I am willing. Sometimes the road is hard so now when I see something that I need to do and I recognize it as the flesh that is resisting, saying it's impossible, I persist in seeking God's will. This is better than going through a lot of "tederizing". He will prevail! amen?
rapha4u

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« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2004, 06:21:28 PM »

Can't is a word which is closely associated with the word won't.

 


Ahem.  Sorry.  Couldn't resist.

Anyway, isn't the whole divorce question summed up in the simple statement:  "Unless our spouse dies any remarriage is adultery." ??


sorry.  I don't mean to be mean here.  Embarrassed  Isn't this sorta just the case?



Symph,


Actually,  It doesn't matter what we think, I think if we were all honest with ourselves, we would just simply admit, Gods word is what matters, our are just opinions..

And to obey is better than sacrifice..

I trust you are having  a Happy New Year Day...........


Blessings,
Petro
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