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Author Topic: Religious tolerance  (Read 12397 times)
sincereheart
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"and with His stripes we are healed." Isaiah 53:5


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« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2003, 01:19:43 PM »

What!? What are you talking about?

Oops, sorry. Forgot to answer....

Quote
I thought A4C might have been a bit hard on 'avemaria'. Seemed a bit out of character for him. Yes, I know he likes to mess with people and some get irritated. But this was different somehow.
Anyway, I went to her site:
http://www.aimoo.com/TraditionalCatholic
and was amazed.  Apparently, she is the owner (OremusMaterDei) of the site and is on a mission to lead the 'heretics' here at CU to the only true religion that will get you to Heaven; which is, of course, Catholicism  . See: http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=529328&CategoryID=244048&startcat=1&ThreadID=1126842 and http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=529328&startcat=1&start=1&CategoryID=244049&ThreadID=1083750 for starters.
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sincereheart
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« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2003, 01:31:39 PM »

Oh yeah, and this one from her:

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=529328&CategoryID=247374&startcat=1&ThreadID=1128945

Quote
Please add Pastor Yearwood to your list of prayers.  He is a hardened Baptist Preacher and very anti-Catholic.  Pray the Holy Spirit will soften his heart and bring him to conversion!

Thank you all.

I am beginning a ministry to spread the news of conversion to non-Catholics.  Please pray for this work or perhaps say a rosary, for the rosary is the strongest tool of prayer to bring about conversions.

You will find I add more names as I go along in this ministry.
[/size]

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Tibby
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« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2003, 01:34:18 PM »

No, not everything we do should be JUST like Jesus. What would Jesus do? Good Question, but isnít a better one What would Jesus have me do? You are to be like Jesus, but not him. You canít be him. We all have different skills given to us, some that Jesus didnít display on this Earth.

Now, about Fasting on Friday specifically, first of all, Ave is a Old Good Fashion Latin Mass Traditionalist Catholic. Most Romanís donít follow the Friday fast Tradition, as most Catholic are Post-Vatican II. Secondly, this Friday fast isnít talking about Jesusí 40 days. The Truth is, the Early church started it all, with Wednesday and Friday fasts. This stems from the Jewish tradition of fasting on Monday and Thursday. The First Christians changed it out of spite. The Friday fast has nothing to do with the Lent Fast, you are confusing 2 traditions. From what I hear, the Eastern Rite, Anglicans, Methodists still do the fast on both days. Mostly, this tradition has all but died out in the Western Catholic and Episcopal Church.
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sincereheart
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« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2003, 01:39:57 PM »

Actually Tibster, I was referring to the post of hers on 'diet' where ave pulled the verse that specifically mentioned Jesus going without food for 40 days.
Then you brought up lent.  Wink
So I mentioned Mardi Gras.  Grin

Good Question, but isnít a better one What would Jesus have me do?

So Jesus would have someone give up meat on Fridays? Hmmmm....




« Last Edit: December 22, 2003, 01:43:02 PM by sincereheart » Logged



Tibby
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« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2003, 01:54:33 PM »

No, it would have them fast Mondays, as he was a Jew. Hey, this isn't a Catholic thing, it in an Early Church thing. You ahve a Problem with it, take it up with the masterminds, Peter and Paul and James. Wink Grin

About the other stuff, you canít lump all Catholics in with them. That is like lumping all Protestants in with the Anti-Catholics. Rome accepts you as a Brother. Most Catholics accept you as a brother.  
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avemaria
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« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2003, 02:15:20 PM »

My "ministry" has nothing to do with this board.  Because I am a former Independent Fundamental Baptist, I write to Baptist Pastors in hopes that they will convert, yes.  I do this out of strong conviction in what I believe.  I do this because I used to be a part of what they believe and feel strongly driven to show them misunderstandings in their anti-Catholicism.  I have dealt with so much hatred from these men that call themselves "Pastors".  I have shuddered at some of the things they have called me and called other Catholics.  There is nothing wrong with evangelizing whatsoever and if this is where the Lord is leading me, then I shall follow, even if I receive abuse and foul language, filthy anti-Catholic jokes and all.  I will take it for the sake of my Lord!

So what of it?  Do you think I am "hiding" something?  I think it's pretty clear when I post here that I am trying my hardest to show the Truth in the Catholic Church and help lift the veil of anti-Catholicism and educate.  And yes, if any of you do convert to the One True Church that Jesus CHrist established (matthew 16) than Praise God.  At least I am evangelizing and "witnessing" and not practicing hate!  I asked for prayers for that pastor because he was unbelievably hateful to me and I couldn't understand how he could call himself a shepherd of a flock.  

You would think all of you would be on the same mission in trying to convert Catholics if you truly believed what you said you believe, but no, most of what I see is you all trying to disprove CAtholicism through hate and bias and NOT witnessing to what you call truth.

Sincere heart - what was your purpose in "exposing" what you did?  What was your intent behind it?  Was this out of charity and love or was this to humiliate and turn people away from me?   I see this a lot on this board and it's really quite sad.  Why not give me a straight answer as to why you felt the need to do that and was it driven out of love for another person?
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Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc, et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen
Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2003, 02:46:52 PM »

If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema." (Canon 14).

    Justification is the legal declaration by God upon the sinner where God declares the sinner righteous in His sight.  This justification is based completely and solely on the work of Christ on the cross.  We cannot earn justification or merit justification in any way.  If we could, then Christ died needlessly.  "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly," (Gal. 2:21).  Because righteousness cannot come through the Law (through our efforts of merit), the Bible declares that we are justified before God by faith:

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Galatians 4:16   Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2003, 03:03:41 PM »

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).
"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness," (Rom. 4:5).
"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God," (Eph. 2:Cool.
     However, in Roman Catholicism, justification by faith is denied.

"If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed," (Canon 12, Council of Trent).

    Which are we to believe?  The Roman Catholic Church or God's word?  Furthermore, the RCC states that justification is received not by faith, but by baptism.   The Catechism of the Catholic Church says in paragraph, 1992, that "...justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith."   This means that faith is not the instrument of obtaining justification; instead, it is an ordinance performed by a priest in the Roman Catholic Church.  
     Furthermore, baptism is only the initial grace along the road of justification.  The Roman Catholic is to then maintain his position before God by his efforts.  

"No one can MERIT the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can MERIT for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods," (Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), par. 2027).

     The problem here is that the RCC is teaching us to "merit for ourselves and for others all the graces need to attain eternal life."  You cannot merit grace.  Grace is unmerited favor.  Merit is according to the CCC, par. 2006, "...the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment..." CCC 2006.  This means that merit is something owed.  By contrast, grace is something not owed.  Therefore, the RCC is teaching contrary to God's word regarding grace and justification.
    The sad result is that in Roman Catholicism, justification before God is a process that is maintained by the effort and works of the Roman Catholic.  This is a very unfortunate teaching since it puts the unbearable burden of works righteousness upon the shoulders of the sinner.  By contrast, the Bible teaches that justification/salvation is by faith.

"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness," (Rom. 4:5).
"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God," (Eph. 2:Cool.
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avemaria
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« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2003, 03:11:26 PM »

A4C - are you capable of making a thought all by yourself or do you feel more secure cutting and pasting anti-Catholic trash?  Just wondering.

Is there something you want to discuss?  Justification and salvation?  Start a new thread and try using your own thoughts.
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Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc, et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen
Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2003, 03:19:29 PM »

A4C - are you capable of making a thought all by yourself or do you feel more secure cutting and pasting anti-Catholic trash?  Just wondering.

Is there something you want to discuss?  Justification and salvation?  Start a new thread and try using your own thoughts.

I Quote Your Roman catholic cult religion:(Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), par. 2027).(((Your Thoughts)))
 And I Quote Gods Word (the B-I-B-L-E) (((My Thoughts)))

Hail Mary Grin
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« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2003, 03:54:08 PM »

From what I hear, the Eastern Rite, Anglicans, Methodists still do the fast on both days. Mostly, this tradition has all but died out in the Western Catholic and Episcopal Church.
Anglicans?  Fast?   Talk about it, maybe.  

You also seem a bit confused - the Episcopal Church is the Anglican Church in America (& Scotland).
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"You shall know the truth, the truth shall set you free.

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« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2003, 04:03:39 PM »

Like I said, I hear the Anglicans and Methodist do it, but Iíve nothing to back it up with, that I just what I heard. The most I know about Anglicans is the little talks I have every now and then with the Local Episcopal Priest.

Yes, I know the Episcopal are Anglicans in America. That is what I was saying. The majority of the Western Catholics and Anglicans in America donít follow this Tradition as their International Brothers do, as far as I've seen. I just thought putting Episcopal would save me the time of having to type out Anglicans in America. Guess not. Grin

Besides, if I had put ďAnglicans in AmericaĒ someone would have replied with ďYou seem a bit confused, the Anglicans in America are the EpiscopalsĒ  haha Grin
« Last Edit: December 22, 2003, 04:08:09 PM by Tibby » Logged

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ebia
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« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2003, 04:21:23 PM »

's a bit clearer now.

I think you'd be hard placed to find many Anglicans anywhere in the world that take fasting seriously.  (Or methodists, for that matter.)
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« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2003, 04:43:38 PM »

I think that is modern Christians in General. In a world when comfort has become a necessity, fasting is a lost practice.
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sincereheart
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« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2003, 08:24:54 PM »

Sincere heart - what was your purpose in "exposing" what you did?  What was your intent behind it?  Was this out of charity and love or was this to humiliate and turn people away from me?  I see this a lot on this board and it's really quite sad.  Why not give me a straight answer as to why you felt the need to do that and was it driven out of love for another person?

Now how would it turn people away from you or humiliate you? You 'speak' with much pride and authority on your own forum. Is there anything that you've said there that you don't believe or that you're ashamed of?

It was driven out of love for the Christians on this board who may have felt that you had stumbled in here quite by accident. But since you have your own forum where there is much bashing of Protestants they may not have known that. They may not have known that you consider us 'heretics' and that you think we cannot possibly be saved since we are not part of the ROMAN Catholic Church. And they may not realize that your 'mission' is to convert people to your religion. Once they are truly aware of your purpose, they will be better able to discuss things with you. However, they may not know that everything you bring up here has been discussed on your forum.

I believe that answers your question. Smiley

Quote
That's right - I used the word "heretic" because pre-Vatican II, this is the term attributed to all those outside the fold of Holy Mother Church.
The Catholic Encyclopedia defines hereitc this way:
The term heresy connotes, etymologically, both a choice and the thing chosen, the meaning being, however, narrowed to the selection of religious or political doctrines, adhesion to parties in Church or State.
St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas".
It is sooooo important that we not only spread the truth of Holy Mother Church to unbelievers, but that we more importantly pray for them. I am reading a good book right now called, "The Devotion of The Holy Rosary and the Five Scapulars" and in it - the author talks about how important it is to pray for those separated from the Catholic Church and how that particular prayer for conversion is so pleasing to God.
I think there are so many ways to share our Faith and the truth therein. Lately, I have been wading through the mire of hipocracy on a "christian" message board. What I saw there was nothing short of mind boggling. I am not sure I have ever come across such anti-Catholicism than what I experienced on that board.
It's sad, incredibly sad that so many people can be so deceived and in such darkness. I think there are many ways to share and I think it is long overdo that Catholics get out there and spread the news. We should not be ashamed of Christ or our faith.
These are confusing times, and compounded to the matter is we are living in the times of "Ecumensim", which I believe to be the great apostasy! We will be accountable for those who are left in darkness!
edited to add quote from avemaria.....
« Last Edit: December 22, 2003, 08:29:39 PM by sincereheart » Logged



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