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Symphony
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« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2003, 01:32:39 PM »


Yes, questioning the authorities.  Thanks twobombs.  Yes, very critical.  But with utmost care.

I was trying to demonstrate to Tibby that if the true "perps" in this case have their way, they want you to think that Judge Moore is the true "perp".  What in fact happened was, that each time they, the plaintiffs, raised "the ante", so did simply Judge Moore, up the chain of courts, there in Alabama--all the way up to the highest judicial postion in that state, Chief Justice.  They were asking him to back down.  And for something that already is hanging or otherwise portrayed in many public places nationwide.  They are merely using Judge Moore as the starting place, the whipping boy, the guinea pig, on which to project their socialist, anit-God--and very unforgiving--agenda--like in Stalinist Russia.  And they ARE succeeding.  You are entirely correct.

They've succeeded, quite admirably, I might add, in getting folks, including Tibby, to see that Judge Moore is the perp(perpetrator).  When in fact they are the perps.

That's how Satan always works.  Satan is "good".  Anyone who dares to defy him, is "evil".

But, as you remind us, all of this must be undertaken with the utmost in prayer, and humility.  It is God who will fight--and win--the battle.

   Smiley
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Tibby
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2003, 10:44:52 PM »

Sym- I donít see how knowing the history changes the argument. It doesnít matter who brought the complaint up. The ACLU didnít make Moore break the law. Moore did that all by him self. I am not rooting for them, Iím booing Moore. I never said I think the 10C should be taken down in the first place, I just donít see how not taking them down would break Biblical commandments.

Sym, in your last post, you missed one basic fact. Judge Moore IS the perp. He broke the law, making him a perpetrator. There is no need for anyone to convince anyone else of anything. It is FACT. Yes, they ARE succeeding, and you know why? Because they are using the court, using the law to fight, while men like Moore break the law. We lose all creditability and respectability this way. Oh, we are telling everyone the ACLU are the bad guy, but we are the ones breaking laws to get our way. Come on ,to the person on the outside looking in, who looks like the bad guys? The ones following due process and abiding the law, or the ones breaking it?

You say God wins? Well, Moore lost. Think about that.

Twobombs- Thanks for putting things into perspective. USA Gov= Nazi Germany. Now things are so much clearer. Will we Christian we herded into gas chambers and used in gruesome medical experiments next? Will the Local Police use us as target practice now? Well we now be starved and overcrowded and abuses and treated like cattle in a concentration camp? I donít know, you are the resident Gnostic, Twobombs. Use some of that magical Secret knowledge and tell us what the future holds.

Get real, These are 2 different circumstances. Your asking why this is different? Reread this paragraph. We are not going to me herded into gas chambers, used in gruesome medical experiments, used as target practice,  starved, overcrowded, abuses, or treated like cattle in a concentration camp. Have some respect for the people who died under Hitlerís reign. Those people would have given anything to live in America now, even with its problems. Donít compare such things, it is insulting.

My problem isnít that he put up the Golden calfÖ I mean monument to the Commandments. My problem isnít that he fought to keep them. The problem I have is this:

While we can prove biblically what he did was wrong, I have yet to see anyone use the bible to show me he is in the right. I could go so far as to bring up verses about idols (Iím not, but I could). I want to see some biblical evidence that supports Judge Mooreís action when read in Context. I want to know how taking a statue down when asked to by the men God put in Authority over you is a sin.
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Forrest
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« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2003, 10:54:45 PM »

    Tibby;
    you say judge Moore broke the law, what law. Huh
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« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2003, 11:01:58 PM »

He disobeyed a direct court order.
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« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2003, 11:23:28 PM »

They have finally taken "judge" Moore off the the Alabama Supreme Court for his Immoral and unlawful behavior.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,102866,00.html

Now, lets do something about Faldwell! Grin

tibby,

For a supposed college student you do, have a problem defining words properly, this another incident where you have chosen the wrong words, and then appear to revel in it, attacking another christian.

Immoral is defined as unchaste, lewd, and I doubt you know this man well enough to make such a judgement.

As for unlawful, you are wrong again, in as much as unlawful is defined as against the law.

And there is presently no law preventing any type of religious symbols from being displayed in any public building.

And, Everyone knows it is not against the law.

Today, liberal active judges, have usurped the power given to the legislature by the people, for the legislating of laws, they have inserted their own liberal views into social policy cases, and by it they are slowly eroding the rights of the religious establishment.

I don't see what good displaying the 10 commandments does in a building except to remind the public of the the countries judeo christian heritage especially its establishing of the foundational laws of the nation.

However, the actions of Judge Moore did not violate a law, and this does not make his refusal to obey an order, while a case is on appeal, any more unlawful, than any other official such as a gorvenor of state refusing to obey a Federal mandate.

States are soveriegn, and are not under obilgation to obey Federal Laws unless ratified by the legilature, or by executivce order of the Governor.

So at best, what the Judge was found guilty of  and Ethics Violation by refusing to comply with an order handed down by a Federal Magistrate, this was the finding of an Ethics Panel made up of 9 State Justices.  And the reason why he was removed from office.

It doesn't surprise me, to hear you speak like this against fellow Christians, since from our other conversations your theology lacks wisdom and understanding of the Word of God.

Your accusations are totally uncalled for , and they really make me wonder where your allegiance really lies.


Petro



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Tibby
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« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2003, 12:02:56 AM »

For a supposed college graduate you do, have a problem reading posts properly, this another incident where you have posted a reply to me without reading the post properly, and then appear to revel in attacking my spelling and grammar because you would rather play the insult game the discuses a serous topic we are facing as Christians.

Immoral is said in relation to his behavior, not his person. This is clearly stated in my first post.

As for unlawful, you are wrong again, as he did in fact break law.

And there is presently a ruling that states Judge Moore had to remove the 10 commandments from the Rotunda.

And, Everyone knows the courts rulings make and shape law.

Today, right wing activists, have usurped the power, and has inserted their own self-serving views, using well meaning but mislead Christians to blindly follow because of a very biblical quotes, and by it they are slowly eroding the credibility and freedom of the Church by giving the Liberals even more firepower against us.

I don't see what good keeping the 10 commandments does in except to make people take notice of the person fighting the battle.

 Further more, the actions of Judge Moore did violate a law, and but this I mean his refusal to obey a court order, after the case has been decided.

States are not sovereign nations, and are not under obligation to obey Federal Laws unless the federal law state as such. What good are federal laws if they are a choice? In any rate, the Federal court is the highest court in the land, more powerful then any single state or circle court.

So at best, what the Judge was found guilty of  and Ethics Violation by refusing to comply with an order handed down by a Federal Magistrate, this was the finding of an Ethics Panel made up of 9 State Justices.  And the reason why he was removed from office.
(No need to change that last phrase, it was correct)

IĎm not even going to bother to spoof this last one, Iím just going to ask you to give me biblical proof to support Moore. Since you think I lacks wisdom and understanding of the Word of God, enlighten me. This is one of the few posts of yours Iíve ever read without biblical quotes, even thought I have requested someone do so. So please, lets see some verses to support what he did.


Love,
Chris
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« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2003, 12:17:03 AM »

He disobeyed a direct court order.
   
    When did a court order become law, and when did the courts start make laws , according to the U.S. Constitution only congress has the abillty to pass laws.
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« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2003, 12:37:10 AM »

   When did a court order become law, and when did the courts start make laws , according to the U.S. Constitution only congress has the abillty to pass laws.

A court order isn't law in self, but following or not following a court order is a whole other pickle.
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« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2003, 01:06:11 AM »

   When did a court order become law, and when did the courts start make laws , according to the U.S. Constitution only congress has the abillty to pass laws.

A court order isn't law in self, but following or not following a court order is a whole other pickle.
  Yes it is a court order is not law thus in not following one you are not braking law, they may find you in contemt but that does not make you a criminal. I know the time will come when we will be told to Christ or die. but where do we draw the line is it ok to hide it till then I belive we should take our stand loudly proclaim Christ when we accept Him as our Savour, in any,and all we do, and I say YEA to Judge Moore for having the courge to take his stand.
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Petro
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« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2003, 01:24:25 AM »

For a supposed college graduate you do, have a problem reading posts properly, this another incident where you have posted a reply to me without reading the post properly, and then appear to revel in attacking my spelling and grammar because you would rather play the insult game the discuses a serous topic we are facing as Christians.

Immoral is said in relation to his behavior, not his person. This is clearly stated in my first post.

As for unlawful, you are wrong again, as he did in fact break law.

And there is presently a ruling that states Judge Moore had to remove the 10 commandments from the Rotunda.

And, Everyone knows the courts rulings make and shape law.

Today, right wing activists, have usurped the power, and has inserted their own self-serving views, using well meaning but mislead Christians to blindly follow because of a very biblical quotes, and by it they are slowly eroding the credibility and freedom of the Church by giving the Liberals even more firepower against us.

I don't see what good keeping the 10 commandments does in except to make people take notice of the person fighting the battle.

 Further more, the actions of Judge Moore did violate a law, and but this I mean his refusal to obey a court order, after the case has been decided.

States are not sovereign nations, and are not under obligation to obey Federal Laws unless the federal law state as such. What good are federal laws if they are a choice? In any rate, the Federal court is the highest court in the land, more powerful then any single state or circle court.

So at best, what the Judge was found guilty of  and Ethics Violation by refusing to comply with an order handed down by a Federal Magistrate, this was the finding of an Ethics Panel made up of 9 State Justices.  And the reason why he was removed from office.
(No need to change that last phrase, it was correct)

IĎm not even going to bother to spoof this last one, Iím just going to ask you to give me biblical proof to support Moore. Since you think I lacks wisdom and understanding of the Word of God, enlighten me. This is one of the few posts of yours Iíve ever read without biblical quotes, even thought I have requested someone do so. So please, lets see some verses to support what he did.


Love,
Chris


The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Petro
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Reba
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« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2003, 12:25:23 PM »

Was a law broken when the "stone" was placed in the court house? Was the law developed to deprive this person right of free excerise?
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« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2003, 12:35:43 PM »

Iím just not saying it right, am I Forrest? Nevermind.

As for Judge Moore ďcourage,Ē Iíd rather he focus is courage toward fighting things like Gay rights and Pro-Choice. You may think a block of stone is important, but the time will come when Alabama will face issues like accepting Gay Marriage, and in that time, the people of Alabama and of America will wish we had more strong Christian men on office, because we will need all the help we can get. And now, we lost one more, over something as silly as the Dťcor of a courthouse. PLEASE. Let the ACLU decorate the Rotunda, who cares as long as Christian Judges are at the bench. Now, they ACLU not only got the 10 Commandments taken out, they have successfully taken a Christian out of Government. And you cheer this? What Moore did played right into the liberal agenda. Courage and stupidity are sometimes similar, but do not confuse them. With one less Christian in the Government, the Liberals are one step closer to achieving their goals.

Amen Petro.

Reda- The deceptive manor in which the stone was placed in the courthouse isnít an issue. No laws where broken there.
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« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2003, 12:35:44 AM »

    Tibby;

       It is true that the liberals are a step closer to there goal but if the Christians would have opened there ears,and eyes 50to60 years ago and made a stand then, as Judge Moore has, and others like him have as of late than we wouldn't have this fight now. Every Brother, and Sister that has the Corage to standup for there faith should be given our harty THANKYOU and  support.
           
                    I personaly say We should say THANKYOU GOD FOR JUDGE MOORE AND OTHERS LIKE HIM
« Last Edit: November 19, 2003, 12:40:55 AM by Forrest » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2003, 08:59:29 AM »

No, Thank God for AG Pryor, who has both the courage to stand up for Christ, and the Knowledge to know when not to get int oa fight with Forces he cant beat. Thank God for AG Pryor who will not play politics, and willdo the right thing, even when it goes against his part. Thank God for Men like AG Pryor, who actually know what the right thing is!

Bill Pryor is the man the Lib's love to hate. He if forced to face them daily, and he so with tact and the grace of god, and on one ever praises him. Does he get anyone rallying support? No! This is the men who Boycotted Dinseny because of Gay-day, much to his childerns upset. This Man is fighting for Christians within the Law. He is useing  the system, not rebelling against it, and he gets nothing. Jeering from both sides. Judge Moore made a non-issue into an issue, broke the law, and deceptively places the block in the courthouse at 12 midnight, and he gets praised.

Personally, I don't think it is fair. Judge Moore is the kind of man the ACLU drinks to. The ACLU of the ACLU wish more Christians where like Judge Moore. THen they could be running the country  in a Month! Oh, the libs LOVE Judge Moore, the love him more then any christian group ever will. They HATE Bill Pryor.
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« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2003, 09:41:34 AM »

 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LAW OF THE LAND
Roy Moore appeals
removal from office
'10 Commandments judge' battling
to regain Alabama chief justice post

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 3, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Art Moore
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

Former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore will appeal his removal from office by tomorrow, he said in an interview with WorldNetDaily.

Alabama's nine-member Court of the Judiciary voted unanimously to oust Moore Nov. 13 for defiance of a federal judge's order to remove a 10 Commandments monument he installed in the rotunda of the state courthouse two years ago. If the ruling stands, Gov. Bob Riley will appoint a new chief justice.


Roy Moore (Photo: WSFA.com)

Moore has been accused of not abiding by the rule of law for his unwillingness to comply with U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson's order. But Moore will argue it is Thompson who flouted the law when he ruled the two-ton granite memorial violated the First Amendment's Establishment Clause, which says Congress shall make no law establishing a religion.

Moore argues the monument has nothing to do with Congress making a law and points out the Alabama state Constitution requires an acknowledgement of God.

"The rule of law is not Judge Thompson's order, but what the law says," he told WND. "There are too many people in our country who don't recognize that the rule of law is not whatever a judge says. If that were true, judges in Hitler's Germany would have been correct ordering people to die."

One of the points Moore's attorneys will emphasize is Thompson's unwillingness to define what religion means.

In his 94-page opinion, Thompson said Moore's "definition of religion proves, if anything, that it is unwise, and even dangerous, to put forth, as a matter of law, one definition of religion under the First Amendment."

Moore commented: "This judge said, in his own opinion, the court does not have the expertise to define the word religion. ... Now when you do that, you can't interpret law."

Thompson, he contended, "didn't follow the law, he followed his own feelings, and therefore, when they say I violated the rule of law by not following his orders, then it does matter how he interprets the statute."

Moore further maintains the code of ethics by which he was prosecuted is based on an acknowledgment of God.

"That was shown during the trial," he said. "But today they say to acknowledge God is a violation of that code of ethics if a judge tells you to stop and you don't obey that order."

The Nov. 13 judgment [Pdf file requires Adobe Reader] said the panel "has found that Chief Justice Moore not only willfully and publicly defied the orders of a United States district court, but upon direct questioning by the court, he also gave the court no assurances that he would follow that order or any similar order in the future.

"In fact," the judgment continued, "he affirmed his earlier statements in which he said he would do the same. Under these circumstances, there is no penalty short of removal from office that would resolve this issue."

After the decision, Moore stated, "It's about whether or not we can acknowledge God as the source of our law and our liberty. That's all I've done. I've been found guilty."



Roy Moore in court Nov. 13. (Sketch provided to WND by H.L. Chappelear)

Some critics of Moore who agree with his position on the First Amendment, argue his decision two year ago to set up a Ten Commandments monument in the state court building is not the only way to acknowledge God and accuse him of grandstanding.

He insists he is acting on principle.

"It's odd to be accused of grandstanding and political purposes when I'm excluded from office, lose my retirement and everything else," he said. "That doesn't make sense."

Moore did not rule out political office, however, saying if not restored as chief justice, "I'll make plans to get a job, whether it be practicing law, speaking, teaching the First Amendment, or running for public office. I haven't made any decision yet."

He acknowledged his case has been "more about restoring the acknowledgement of God than the Ten Commandments monument," but downplayed the notion he is the leader of a growing movement.

"That's for others to assess," he said. "I just see myself as a person who is trying to do my job and lost it."

He already has responded to a number of invitations across the country, nevertheless, speaking to many who say his battle has touched a chord.

"I see a groundswell of change coming into our country Ė an awakening to the true meaning of the Constitution," he said.

On Nov. 17, Moore announced he is proposing federal legislation to reassert the power he insists Congress already has to limit the jurisdiction of federal courts.

He made a veiled reference to his legislative move immediately after he was removed from office, promising he would make an announcement that "could alter the course of this country."

"It entails a restriction of the jurisdiction of the courts under Article III, according to the Constitution, from matters with which they're not supposed to be involved anyway," he explained.

"In other words," he continued, "when courts have usurped jurisdiction of the Constitution, of the meaning of the First Amendment, when they've intruded powers where they don't have a right to be, then the Congress has a right, under the Constitution to restrict the appellate jurisdiction of the United States Supreme Court and the federal district courts, which Congress has created."

The legislation will address that issue he said, along with the "right of the states to be free to acknowledge God."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35927
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