Spiritual Gifts

[Petro]

Petro

I know you read that thread,but did you read it all?

1 Corinthians13:10
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

The Perfect has not come yet.Are you saying Paul knew there was going to be a NT as we know it?

jabez,

Sorry, but I do not understand your question..totally.

But to answer your question, I will say, absolutely Paul not only knew the NT was to be as we know it, he also, knew all about the end times destruction of the heavens and the earth, and the new heavens and the new earth, He not only wrote of them, Peter wrote about him, and what it was he (Paul taught, preached and wrote).

Look at and read 2 Pet 3:8-16. there Peter speaks of our brother Paul, here is a portion of it;

15  .......................even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

This is why you need to pay particular attention to what He said, concerning Jesus.

Blessings,

Petro

[Jabez]

1 Corinthians13:10
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

I beleive the Perfect to be Jesus.

Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

[Petro]

1 Corinthians13:10
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

I beleive the Perfect to be Jesus.

Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

jabez,

The problem with your conclusion is that Jesus had already come, by the time this was written, the holy spirit also, had come, and was already in the world, so it can't either one of them, it has to do with us, and our understanding, since the followup verses speak of "the perfect"  as something which we lack, we lack while in  the flesh.

Positionally we are perfect in Christ note, Heb 10:14.

Yet we are not, perfect while in the flesh, yet, the verses according to Pauls understanding, has something to do with knowledge, this is why he says;

11  When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

What verse do you rely on, that this is speaking of Jesus??


Blessings,

Petro

[Jabez]

Petro,

We will not be perfect until Jesus returns.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1.Can we agree Jesus is Perfect?
2.Can we agree Jesus is the Perfect Offering?
3.Can we agree that we are not Perfect?

[Jabez]

Perfect-without flaw or fault

[Petro]

jabez,

I am not going to argue about this,

But it is clear we are perfect if we live our lives in Christ;

Christ praying to the Father said;

John 17
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;

Then the apsotle said;

1 Jhn 4
18  .................He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

And then Paul says;

Heb 13
20  Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21  Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


Christians that obey God the Spirit do so because they can see spiritually..I wonder why some will not.


Blessings,

Petro

[Jabez]

Petro

I didnt realize we were argueing?I thought we were discuseing this?Just because you think we in the flesh are "perfect" and i dont,doent mean we are argueing.Think about that for a min.Can the Flesh be perfect?Iam not perfect!Do you claim to be?Please answer these questions?

[Petro]

Petro

I didnt realize we were argueing?I thought we were discuseing this?Just because you think we in the flesh are "perfect" and i dont,doent mean we are argueing.Think about that for a min.Can the Flesh be perfect?Iam not perfect!Do you claim to be?Please answer these questions?

jabez,

Iam sorry, I should not have siad that,  forigve me...


To answer your question, I wouldn't make the claim that I could ever be perfect while I live in this body, and I know this is because of a lack of Faith on my part.

The promises of God are given to us that we may grasp them by faith, and by Faith nothing is impossible with God.

Gods Word seems to imply that men who believe God in this life are viewed and can be perfect.

Now, I already quote some previous verses, but Note;

Eph 4
10  He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:


It is clear to me that this scripture is not speaking of Jesus, but the members of the body.....corporately.

Blessings,

Petro

[The Crusader]

Those that believe that they must have a gift in order to do the work of the ministry are greatly diminishing the value of the Word of God. The Bible is the one perfect gift of God that today allows us to carry out the work of the ministry. In order to function as mature believers, established in the faith, we must stop seeking after the gifts, which have passed away, and start using the gift of God's Word.

<))><

[4JC]

Crusader
Anything good that comes from us for the Church is an undeserved "gift" from God. When anything good is done from us for the church, God gets the glory. Right?

To everyone

14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the LORD.

14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Note: Paul did not say for a sign and edifying and a personal prayer language when he told us the purpose of tongues.
Tongues are for a sign.
This is the purpose for tongues, period. The gift of interpretation was given so the believers could be edified while the sign was being given to unbelievers. Othewise there would have been confusion, things happening within the church that some would not understand or receive any edification from. God is not the author of confusion. Since the sign is no longer needed, the secondary use went with it.
 



 

[The Crusader]

Crusader
Anything good that comes from us for the Church is an undeserved "gift" from God. When anything good is done from us for the church, God gets the glory. Right?

To everyone

14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the LORD.

14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Note: Paul did not say for a sign and edifying and a personal prayer language when he told us the purpose of tongues.
Tongues are for a sign.
This is the purpose for tongues, period. The gift of interpretation was given so the believers could be edified while the sign was being given to unbelievers. Othewise there would have been confusion, things happening within the church that some would not understand or receive any edification from. God is not the author of confusion. Since the sign is no longer needed, the secondary use went with it.
 



 

Good

<))><

[Jabez]

Those that believe that they must have a gift in order to do the work of the ministry are greatly diminishing the value of the Word of God. The Bible is the one perfect gift of God that today allows us to carry out the work of the ministry. In order to function as mature believers, established in the faith, we must stop seeking after the gifts, which have passed away, and start using the gift of God's Word.

<))><

1 Corinthians 14:1
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

[Jabez]

Petro

I didnt realize we were argueing?I thought we were discuseing this?Just because you think we in the flesh are "perfect" and i dont,doent mean we are argueing.Think about that for a min.Can the Flesh be perfect?Iam not perfect!Do you claim to be?Please answer these questions?

jabez,

Iam sorry, I should not have siad that,  forigve me...


To answer your question, I wouldn't make the claim that I could ever be perfect while I live in this body, and I know this is because of a lack of Faith on my part.

The promises of God are given to us that we may grasp them by faith, and by Faith nothing is impossible with God.

Gods Word seems to imply that men who believe God in this life are viewed and can be perfect.

Now, I already quote some previous verses, but Note;

Eph 4
10  He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:


It is clear to me that this scripture is not speaking of Jesus, but the members of the body.....corporately.

Blessings,

Petro

Theres no need to forgive,i hold nothing against you.I appreciate you following up with me on this.Thank you!Also i agree with the verses you have stated,but i beleive the final perfection will be when Jesus calls us home and our bodies are changed.

[4JC]

Crusader    

God bless
4JC

[Ambassador4Christ]

Crusader    

God bless
4JC

DITTO