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Author Topic: Why did God let Jesus die?  (Read 6518 times)
mgs2
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« on: August 28, 2003, 01:46:43 AM »

I quote from Mark chapter 15 verses 33-34  at midday the whole country was covered with darkness which lasted for three hours at three o clock Jesus cried out with a loud shout "eloi eloi lema sabachthani" which means "my God my God why did you abandon me.

Why did god let Jesus die? And was Jesus rising from the dead a sign of God saying "ok i did the wrong thing im sorry"
« Last Edit: September 11, 2003, 12:04:48 PM by blackeyedpeas » Logged
Allinall
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2003, 02:01:10 AM »

God let Jesus die because it was only by His shed blood that forgiveness for our sin could be bought.  Jesus, the sinless Lamb of God, died for you and me to pay the price for sin that God demanded - death.  Why then did God raise Him again?  Smiley  Because the payment was acceptable to God!  In raising Christ, God put His stamp of approval on the sacrifice He had made.  He lives, that I now may live.  You know what?  So can you!  Are you interested in hearing how my friend?
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"that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death"
mgs2
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2003, 02:14:42 AM »

Yes but Jesus obviously didn't want to die as he said "my God my God why did you abandon me" perhaps God wanted him to die but Jesus did not want to, otherwise why would Jesus of said that?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2003, 12:06:18 PM by blackeyedpeas » Logged
Allinall
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2003, 02:31:07 AM »

Jesus was quoting a passage from Psalm.  That is, after all, what death is.  It isn't ceasing to be, but a separation.  In a physical death the body is separated from the soul and spirit.  Spiritual death is separating the soul and spirit from God.  Did Jesus want to die on the cross?  Yes!  How can I say that so confidently?  Look at Luke 22:39-46

Quote
And he came out and went, as was his custom, to the Mount of Olives, and the disciples followed him. And when he came to the place, he said to them, "Pray that you may not enter into temptation." And he withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and knelt down and prayed, saying, "Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done." And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.  And when he rose from prayer, he came to the disciples and found them sleeping for sorrow, and he said to them, "Why are you sleeping? Rise and pray that you may not enter into temptation."


Why the great agony in His prayer?  Because He knew the cost; He knew the sacrifice He was about to make.  The physical pain was enough to make anyone sweat, but the blood filled sweat was brought by the knowledge that in death, He would suffer the very separation from God that God demanded!  And yet He still submitted Himself to death:

Quote
And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Philippians 2:8

Scripture tells us that Jesus "became sin" for us.  God will not accept sin, and so separated Himself from that sin.  Jesus died, both physically and spiritually on the cross to pay for our sins.  Shall I go on?  Smiley
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mgs2
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2003, 02:37:08 AM »

You still haven't explained why Jesus said "God you have abondon me" this must mean that God had done something wrong, i think that Jesus did not want to die and then God just made up the "he died for you sins" i dont think Jesus really wanted to die.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2003, 12:07:58 PM by blackeyedpeas » Logged
Allinall
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2003, 02:52:26 AM »

The abandonment Jesus spoke of was the experience of being separated from God as He became sin for us.  God had done nothing wrong, yet God the Son, Jesus Christ, had become the very sin He was dying for.  Confusing?  Possibly, but the point is that God didn't make a mistake.  He was paying for our sin by taking that sin on Himself and dying - being separated from God.  My friend, the sheer fact that Jesus died was evidence of His willingness.  Consider this:

Quote
Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.  Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?  But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?" At that hour Jesus said to the crowds, "Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs to capture me? Day after day I sat in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me.  But all this has taken place that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled."

Matthew 26:52-56

Jesus could have called for help at anytime!  Why?  Because He is God!  God didn't do something to Him He didn't already accept having done.  Moreover:

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For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.  No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father."

John 10:17-18

Jesus wasn't forced to die for you.  He did so of His own free will.  Does this help?
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Petro
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2003, 03:07:47 AM »

mgs2,

If one understands that Jesus was fully man and fully God.

And that his God nature never interfered with His physical nature, one can begin to comprehend these words.

For instance, does God ever get tired?, Does He eat?, Does He thirst for something to drink?    

The answer is obviously NO.

However we read in the Gospels, Jesus, did get physically tired, we read at Jhn 4:6, He was weary at the well, from the journey;

Did he eat? He ate the last supper with his disciples Mat 26, Mk 14,

Did He thrist? Jhn 19:28 tells us he thristed.

In His God nature, did He cry the words you ask of, because He was afraid, the answer is no.

But in His physical nature one can understand, His fear, ( the scripture tells us he sweated drops of blood the night before His crucifixion, while praying for dstrength to do the will of His Heavenly Father,    the prospect of spending an eternity  in Hell for the sins of His people, was what he struggled with,.

Thou he emptied himself and thou being in the form of God t thought it not robbery to be equal with God.  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (Phil2:6-10)

He said these words as a man, who had enjoyed glory with God, His  Father, and was about to be separated from Him,in accordance to an eternity in Hell, and as any man facing death, spoke as a man who had a moment of passing doubt as He considered what He was about to experience.

Blessings,

Petro
Do you know Him, as Lord and Savior, today??

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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2003, 04:33:35 AM »

I think what happened can be interpreted in different ways no one knows for sure what happened. Jesus's speech "my God my God why did you abandon me" can be interpreted in different ways.
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2003, 04:36:58 AM »

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i think what happened can be interpreted in different ways no one knows for sure what happened. Jesus's speech "my god my god why did you abondon me" can be interpreted in different ways.

Yes.  But if you interpret it the scripture presents it, then Jesus did what He did by His choice.  The only wrong done Him was by us and our sins that He went to the cross to forgive.   Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2003, 12:12:04 PM »

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posted by mgs2 as reply #7
i think what happened can be interpreted in different ways no one knows for sure what happened.

Well of course it can be interpreted in different ways, the scripture intreprets for us what is recorded He said.  

Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

And even those that heard Him, began the speculations then and there. (Mat 27:47-49)

However, the answer is found in Psa 22; David's prophecy of praise;

1  To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2  O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
3  But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.                                                        4  Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
5  They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
6  But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
7  All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8  He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
9  But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
10  I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
11  Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
12  Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13  They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14  I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15  My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16  For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17  I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18  They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19  But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20  Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21 Save me from the lion's mouth:

Who is the Lion in view herein, at vs. 21, if not, our adversary, the roaring lion spoken of at; (1Pet 5:Cool that, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

He is that sameone who is described as "the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now worketh in the children of disobedience (Eph2:2) , and the God of this world at (2Cor 4:3-4).

God is Holy, He will never overlook sin, and because He is Holy, He must punish it.

As Allinall, has explained;

The Lord Jesus had no sin of his own, but He willingly, obediently took the guilt of our sins upon Himself, and when God as Judge, looked down and saw our sins upon our sinless SUBSTITUTE, He withdrew from His only begotten SON.

It was this separation the distressed our Lord and God, the Captain of our Salvation.

I doubt any of us, can imagine or even begin to know, feel or understand exactly what He was going thru at this moment on our behalf, yet scripture records it for us herein..

To speculate about what occurred herein, does not make it true, notice what the scripture says about, the calculated or maybe the word should be uncalculated risk these gambled , when they murdered Jesus, willingly.

They did it speculating, that He was not who He claimed to be, had they known, they would never have killed him, and those religious men in authority were the ones who handed Him over to the hands of wicked men.

Were they  ignorant or wise?

.......Your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.         (1 Cor 2:5-13)

But all this happened to fulfill the plan of word of God, notice (verse 23, below), that was by Gods determinate council to hand over to wicked religious men, from the begining; knowing they would kill Him.

One asks "Why did God let Jesus Die?

The answer is so that God, could save them that are LOST.

Acts 2
22  Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24  Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25  For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26  Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27  Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28  Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29  Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30  Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31  He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32  This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34  For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35  Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Pay particular attention to verse 23, above;

From the begining, it was Gods plan to provide Himself a sacrifice for the sins of His people.

This what the Lord  said to Joseph, when appeared to him in a dream;

Mat 1
20  ..........son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21  And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for He shall save his people from their sins.  (my emphasis)


Our hope is the same hope David spoke of because we believe what he said at verses 29-31.

Have you placed your FAITH in Jesus?

God Bless
Petro
« Last Edit: August 28, 2003, 12:28:25 PM by Petro » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2003, 03:24:36 PM »

Mockery of Christ removed 9-3-2003 bep
« Last Edit: September 03, 2003, 05:08:45 PM by blackeyedpeas » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2003, 03:47:06 PM »

I'm sure your blasphemy will be duly noted in God's book.
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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2003, 03:58:14 PM »

Blasphemy removed 9-3-2003 bep
« Last Edit: September 03, 2003, 05:10:42 PM by blackeyedpeas » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2003, 04:19:57 PM »

Your attitude though shows that you are not repenting.  He has all power over you.  If you died right now you would go to hell and beg from down there to be brought up and he will tell you all the chances you had and all the things you thought and said and it will all be your fault.
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« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2003, 04:24:28 PM »

Mockery of God removed 9-3-2003 bep
« Last Edit: September 03, 2003, 05:12:48 PM by blackeyedpeas » Logged
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