Why did God let Jesus die?

[eyeball]

if only we could lock you away, but exactly what underage rapes are you speaking of???

Exodus
21:7
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
21:9
And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters

I would think if you sell your daughter, she is a slave. For a slave to be forced to marry the masters son, and presumably service him as a good wife is required, to me would be coerced sex- rape.

Numbers
31:15
And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16
Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.    
31:18
But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Verse 31:18 says "women children". They are the spoils of war. They are property, not new daughters. It's funny that they killed everyone else because they supposedly brought "a plague upon the congregation of the Lord", yet would keep the little girls,  for their pleasure.

 

[eyeball]

Well it looks like we've found someone who knows more than Christ. You very definitely are angry. There is bitterness in your writing, probably at your parents for shoving Christianity down your throat. Just because you don't know God doesn't mean He doesn't exist. I know it may be hard for you to believe, but there's a lot you don't know...unless of course you think you're omniscient which is delusions of grandeur.

Anger? Maybe. Mostly I'm just occasionally livid with incredulity at the lengths I've seen some here go, to not answer my questions.
My parents? They were great people, especially my Dad. He never forced anything on me. He always let me find my own way. In fact, critical thinking skills he taught me, led me away from religion. As for religion being forced down my throat, I'm the one who at six years old, talked my parents into going to church with me and my Grandparents.

[Heidi]

The way you talk about Christianity isn't from love. It sounds like fear. If you had understood that Christianity is about love and forgiveness I don't think you would spout the fire and brimstone approach. You got that from some place. Either it's from the church you liked to go to as a child or from your parents. The way you talk about others on this forum is definitely angry. I'm not angry at you. I understand your lack of feeling forgiven. But you have a lot of anger at others. For some reason you want to reject the love that Christ gave for you on the cross.

[eyeball]

The way you talk about others on this forum is definitely angry.

Could you show me an example of what you're talking about? You'd better hurry, though, because my posts are being
--------.

[Heidi]

I am not able to insert a quote from my keyboard because it's not working right. But I'll try to remember some of your posts. You seem to see God as a punishing God instead of saving us from ourselves.  Either you don't think you make any mistakes and don't need a redeemer or you're angry that he is punishing. Or are you happy that He's a punishing God? If you're happy that you think He's a punishing God then why don't you accept Him? You're giving off mixed messages. You say you're not angry but your contempt of God shows otherwise.

Jesus very definitely did exist. His words are written down. They can't be from another human being who made them up because the person who wrote down His words condemned mankind as evil. What human being can condemn humanity (including himself) and then turn around and give his life for mankind? Where did He get the love to do that? Just a guess? He couldn't have gotten it from another human being because He believes they are evil. Why would He believe them? How long could you go around believing you and the rest of humanity is evil without killing yourself and others? The answer is that Jesus HAD to be from God. There is no other source from which to get the love He had to give us.

[eyeball]

I am not able to insert a quote from my keyboard because it's not working right. But I'll try to remember some of your posts. You seem to see God as a punishing God instead of saving us from ourselves.  Either you don't think you make any mistakes and don't need a redeemer or you're angry that he is punishing. Or are you happy that He's a punishing God? If you're happy that you think He's a punishing God then why don't you accept Him? You're giving off mixed messages. You say you're not angry but your contempt of God shows otherwise.

Jesus very definitely did exist. His words are written down. They can't be from another human being who made them up because the person who wrote down His words condemned mankind as evil. What human being can condemn humanity (including himself) and then turn around and give his life for mankind? Where did He get the love to do that? Just a guess? He couldn't have gotten it from another human being because He believes they are evil. Why would He believe them? How long could you go around believing you and the rest of humanity is evil without killing yourself and others? The answer is that Jesus HAD to be from God. There is no other source from which to get the love He had to give us.

That's not what I asked for. Every bit of yur proof is circular logic.

[Heidi]

Explain how it's circular logic.

[eyeball]

Explain how it's circular logic.

You are using for proof, the very thing you are trying to prove. Look here.
A long time ago Eyeball said he always tells the truth. Atheist said Eyeball was an honest man. Knox says Eyeball was truthful and he can prove it, because Atheist and Eyeball wrote it down.
If we could test some things Eyeball has claimed, we can know if at least there is truth there. Sadly, Eyeball is gone from this age and this Earth. None of his writings have any specific prophecies or testable statements.
If all you had were vague writings atributed to Eyeball, all you could truthfully say is that you think they are truth. But to try and prove them based on what the long dead Atheist and Knox wrote, would be circular logic.

[Heidi]

Philosophically no one can prove anything. But if we decide on certain premises, i.e. that we even exist, then we can use those premises as proof. You have used the bible in your assertion that it is a fake. You have used the word God to prove He doesn't exist. By the same token I can use the bible to prove that Christ existed. You're the type of person who would accept on fact that Atilla the Hun existed even though there is far more evidence that Christ existed than Atilla the Hun. In your logic, you would have to DENY reality in order to prove that Christ wasn't the son of God. He has shown Himself to be divine in a myriad of ways but you have to ignore that in order to perpetuate your beliefs.  That's a little out of touch.

[eyeball]

You have used the bible in your assertion that it is a fake. You have used the word God to prove He doesn't exist.

If you say something is true, and it contains untruths, then it is untrue. This is simple. The sun did not stand still, and even if it did, we would still experience a sunrise.

 

By the same token I can use the bible to prove that Christ existed.

No you can't, and if you could, the world would be at his feet. Obviously, you have failed miserably in this quest.
 

He has shown Himself to be divine in a myriad of ways but you have to ignore that in order to perpetuate your beliefs.  That's a little out of touch.

He hasn't shown me anything. He does not exist. That is my opinion, and that you feel he exists is your opinion. Both opinions are based on a lack of evidence.  As far as me being out of touch, well I need evidence before I believe a thing, not mushy feelings inside.

[Heidi]

There is plenty of evidence right before your eyes. There are many more witnesses to Christ's life, words, death, and resurrection, than to any other historical figure at that time. But because it seems unbelievable to you, you dismiss it. By the same token, there have been many incorrect "facts" written about in history books that you believe because they sound believable to you. Never mind that they aren't the truth. The truth doesn't matter to you. What matters to you is if they sound plausible in your mind.

I know it's not your fault that you can't believe. You don't have the Holy Spirit in you and because of that, you can only come from human desires. Trying to understand Christianity without the Holy Spirit is like trying to learn another language without an interpreter. No amount of evidence will convince you, even if it's staring you in the face. It's the same type of denial that leads people to say the Holocaust didn't happen. They have to dismiss tons of evidence because it doesn't sound believable to them.

[eyeball]

There is plenty of evidence right before your eyes. There are many more witnesses to Christ's life, words, death, and resurrection, than to any other historical figure at that time.

You have only Biblical accounts to prove your claim. With that logic, any religious book can be said to be true, just because it says so.

I know it's not your fault that you can't believe. You don't have the Holy Spirit in you and because of that, you can only come from human desires.

This is the key, and I'm glad you finally admitted it. One needs to believe first, then they will have all the evidence they need. Of course, once they believe, they need no evidence.

[Heidi]

That's exactly right, eyeball. I'm just curious as a Christian if it can be explained purely intellectually. The reason i'm doing it is because I'm also an intellect and wanted to become a Christian for years but couldn't because i didn't have the holy Spirit. I'm just wondering now if it can be explained using the same logic as non Christians do. And I still believe that non christians are contradicting themselves but won't admit it. There 's a great book out called "Evidence that Demands a Verdict." I can't remember the author's name but he started out to prove Christianity wrong and then became a believer. It's all fascinating stuff.

[Ralph]

  From everlasting, the Triune Godhead purposed to recover certain ones from the judgment they were under as a consequence of Adam's fall; God's purpose in it being the manifestation of His attributes of mercy and grace; the outcome of that being the redemption of His chosen ones through Christ to the praise of the glory of His grace. All that transpired-including the death of Jesus of Nazareth-was agreed upon by the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit from everlasting. Their determination to be gracious and merciful to those chosen was so great that before the foundation of the world, they solemnly covenanted together concerning every detail involved. Each agreed to the role that each would play in that recovery. The Word of God was to descend from heaven and take upon Himself the form of a servant. His name was called Jesus. In His humanity, He was fully human. In Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, Yet the two natures in Christ were never confused. His Divine nature never was less than fully God and His human nature never more nor less than fully human. In His human nature, Jesus grew in wisdom; always in His humanity being fully obedient to the Father; always advancing in knowledge and wisdom at the pace which pleased the Father--never slack in any duty which belonged to Him before God. In the garden of Gethsemane, we see Jesus in His humanity still advancing in wisdom and knowledge-sweating great drops of blood, the man Jesus agonized over what He was coming to realize the Father was requiring of Him. In His garden prayer--notice the way He alters the wording of His prayer each time as His understanding grows, being all the time submissive to the Father as He agonizes. Then, on the cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Take plenty of time to realize that Jesus, even in His humanity, that humanity in which He was tempted in all points like we are, yet without sin, the son of man, even throughout those dark hours never raised his voice in complaint over the desertion He was experiencing. It was AFTER, only AFTER He had passed through that dark valley alone that He cried out to be informed about "WHY?". That, dear friends, is a look at how wonderfully complete the obedience of the Man Jesus to the Father was. THINK OF THAT. And because of that obedience, His offering of Himself as an atonement for sin was fully acceptable to the Father. Because of that obedience, He was raised from the death. Because of His own obedience, death could not hold Him. There we see perfect righteousness-testified to by the Father's raising Him up. NOW THINK OF THIS. That SAME righteousness, that righteousness which brought the man Jesus through death even up to the right hand of the Father is GIVEN-GIVEN-GIVEN to all who by God's grace are willing to cast away all hope in themselves to depend instead on Christ and His righteousness. Will that righteousness be sufficient for you also? Just as it brought Him through the valley of the shadow of death to resurrection, so will it also for we who fully cast ourselves upon Him. "Praise to the Lord the Almighty, the King of creation. Oh, my soul praise Him for he is thy health and SALVATION. All ye who hear, now to His temple draw near, Join me in glad adoration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"For He has made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might be made the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God in Him."

[eyeball]

Lots of pretty words, folks, but still no answer. Why did God not plan it some other way? He is the maker of all? He could not forsee the outcome, or either he wanted his son to die?