Why did God let Jesus die?

[preacherintraining]

Give you what you deserve?  Yes.  Tell you he gave you chances and it is your own fault?  Yes.  Torture and mock?  No.

[Whitehorse]

yes but jesus obviously didn't want to die as he said "my god my god why did you abondan me" perhaps god wanted him to die but jesus did not want to, otherwise why would jesus of said that?

You can rest assured, Jesus agreed to do it, willingly. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are in perfect agreement. But when Jesus cried that out, He was fulfilling a prophecy from the Psalms to testify to His divinity, that He was the messiah. Some psalms are called messianic, because they are prophecies about Jesus.

Jesus had to become a curse for us, to take the curse away from us. His abandonment by the Father was part of the punishment He paid for us, because that is part of what happens in hell. It was very painful for Jesus, who had always been in perfect fellowship with the Father, to suffer this, but He was willing because He loves His people so much! His rising from the dead was a sign, a firstfruits of the rest of the resurrection: yours and mine. And it is proof that He can do it, not because He needs to prove Himself, but to comfort those who are searching and whose faith needs to be strengthened. His earthly mission was finished, so of course He couldn't remain dead. The work was done. Remember, we will be raised in real bodies again. Death truly is temporary for God's people. It isn't just a figure of speech; it will be a very real resurrection! You'll never have to worry-God doesn't make mistakes like we do. We're safe in His hands.  

[Petro]

Listen, to me this all sounds kinda stupid. The crucifixion and the "sacrafice",  I mean.

Well, of course it does, no one would argue this point, you are in a better position to state what certain things sound like to YOU.

But when the scriptures speak of you, obviously you will disagree, because you do not see  yourdelf,  as GOD sees you, and since this is true, you are unable to receive much less understand nor believe that things of God.  

Notice  1Cor 2;

14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You said;

[quote)
First off, Allinall said "God let Jesus die because it was only by His shed blood that forgiveness for our sin could be bought."

I find this rediculous. God makes the rules, correct? God knows all, correct? So all of you think before he created the universe, God knew about Jesus having to die, yet could not think of a better way of doing things. Why? Was this impossible for him? Did he want rebelous humans and a dead Jesus?

Since you are unable to discern spiritual thruths, from the Word of God, its no wonder you are unable to underdstand
these teachings, but it doesn't have to be this way.

The Gosple of the Kingdom is an invitatiion to whomsoever, if you are not interested, why complian, it is preached to them that are interested in changing their lives.

As Jesus said;

They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.  (Mk 2:17)

So, if,  you do not consider yourself a sinner, what good is it to resond to Jesus, He is of NO value to you.

But to us who recognize we need a savior He means everything to us, since it is thru Him, we can receive forgiveness of sin, and be made right with God the Father.

So, in the end everyone will receive in our bodies, what we want.  And we can all be happy..

 
[quote
As for the death of Jesus being a sacrafice, well I'd do it in a second. If I knew for sure that  I'd be resurrected as a god, that I could fly and roam the universe at will, of course I'd do it. I wouldn't want to be omniscient, though. Things would get very boring always knowing everything. Never any surprises.

No you wouldn't.

Beacuse of the way you think.

You would rationalize, "Why should I give my life for sinners" they are of no value to me anyhow. And besides I am already god.

These words are the words of a selfish person, you see, you only think about your own gain and what the benefits would be for you.  This why, you can never be God.

The truth is, you are and act presently as, a god, however, since there is only ONE TRUE God, you are counted with all the other false ones.

Eyeball

This is because you cannot see, nor understand the things of God.

Petro

[Whitehorse]

Listen, to me this all sounds kinda stupid. The crucifixion and the "sacrafice",  I mean.
First off, Allinall said

God let Jesus die because it was only by His shed blood that forgiveness for our sin could be bought.

I find this rediculous. God makes the rules, correct? God knows all, correct? So all of you think before he created the universe, God knew about Jesus having to die, yet could not think of a better way of doing things. Why? Was this impossible for him? Did he want rebelous humans and a dead Jesus?

As for the death of Jesus being a sacrafice, well I'd do it in a second. If I knew for sure that  I'd be resurrected as a god, that I could fly and roam the universe at will, of course I'd do it. I wouldn't want to be omniscient, though. Things would get very boring always knowing everything. Never any surprises.

Eyeball

So, you feel that God could have done things a better way. I also thought that, back when I was a teenager. Let me ask you this: better to you, or better? You're a human being. From your standpoint, all suffering is bad, and if there is a way to avoid it, it seems better. A very normal way of thinking, for human beings. But you can't see five minutes into your future, can you?

God is not like a man; He has higher thoughts and higher priorities. And He wants His character to be made known, and He wants His children to become like Him. If we didn't sin so badly, how could the intensity of God's love be known? How would you know what it's like to be completely forgiven for something serious that you have done, like rebel against an all-powerful God?

How would you know God's holiness if you didn't see His wrath against sin? How would you know that He is just, or even what justice is?

As for stupid, you may think it's stupid because you don't understand how your sin looks before God. How serious it is, and how powerful God is. Let me put it to you this way. Our sin cost Him His only Son, with whom He had perfect fellowship. A Son who didn't deserve to die. Let's just say, it's a mistake to think God winks at sin. I assure you He doesn't.

To me, unwise would be making the wrong choice of these two options

1. Pay for what you did before God.
2. Let Jesus pay for you.

[eyeball]

Whitehorse said

If we didn't sin so badly, how could the intensity of God's love be known? How would you know what it's like to be completely forgiven for something serious that you have done, like rebel against an all-powerful God?

So God planned our humble and hardscrabble existence?

Let me put it to you this way. Our sin cost Him His only Son, with whom He had perfect fellowship. A Son who didn't deserve to die.

Well it's all his fault. He planned it all, he put into action and followed through with it. He can do anything, right? Well he could have done it differently. I mean, come on now, how many times has he smote the world. And he seems surprised every time he needs to repeat the smiting.

Eyeball

[Whitehorse]

No, He isn't surprised at all. What is the manifestation of surprise you're referring to? He does it to show us something, not Himself. You can say it's His fault all you want, but you don't understand that sin is a choice for which there are consequences. You don't understand how sin looks before Him. But it is a very good idea to get understanding of this.

May blessings and peace rest upon you and your home.

[eyeball]

God is not like a man; He has higher thoughts and higher priorities. And He wants His character to be made known, and He wants His children to become like Him.

How should I be more like God? Tell my children I am going to punish them all there lives for something an ancestor did? Tell them part of their being will last forever and be tortured by me because they don't think as I want them to? Should I send my children to kill  most of the neighbors so they'll have land to build their houses and build a place to worship me? Have my children use the surviving neighbors, all virgin children, as whores or sell them into prostitution?

Maybe that was the problem Andrea Yates of Texas had. She was trying to be god-like, and pulled a Noah on her children. People were really freaked over this, yet think it's plausable that a loving god would do worse.

No, none of you have answers for the hard questions, except to say God's thoughts are higher than ours. That's an easy out and explains nothing.

How serious it is, and how powerful God is.

I was raised with fire and brimstone preaching Sunday morning, Sunday night plus prayer meeting on Wed. I know how serious this all is. If I thought any of it was plausable, I'd be on my knees in a second. As for God's power, he either does not exist or is impotent. I hear proofs such as God's healing or God blessed us with money to buy food. If he wanted belief, the big man would make a few amputated legs and arms grow back. Lizards can do it, why can't God? If he wanted belief He would strike dead anyone who touched his graven monument, as the book said he did with the ark.

Eyeball

[Allinall]

It doesn't matter what he does, because I have power over God. I can repent! Then what can he do. Take away one of my rooms in his mansion?

You cannot repent.  Repentance is of the Lord.  One does not simply awaken one day and determine to come to Christ.  It is when Christ, through the word of God and the conviction of the Holy Spirit, comes to you that repentance is given.  The only question then, is whether or not you accept it.  You, are not in this position by the words you speak.

[eyeball]

Petro said-

You would rationalize, "Why should I give my life for sinners" they are of no value to me anyhow. And besides I am already god.

These words are the words of a selfish person, you see, you only think about your own gain and what the benefits would be for you.  This why, you can never be God.

Why do you put words in my mouth, then on the basis of them call me selfish? Have I said something that led you to believe I am selfish? Or is it the same old line about atheists being so selfish they won't acknowledge God? Well, I'm not selfish, I don't value material posessions beyond their usefullness and if you need a couple of bucks I just might lend it to you, if you really need it.  I think you take offense of the fact that non-believers value themselves and their thoughts, that we feel worthy of living free of archaic rules.

As far as your opinion that I only think of my own gain and benefits to me, well, being unhindered by religion, I see that what benefits others  benefits the world. I'm not obsessed by an afterlife, so I know my short time on Earth is all I'll have. I know I had better use this time wisely, for it's all I'll get.

Eyeball

[preacherintraining]

God is not like a man; He has higher thoughts and higher priorities. And He wants His character to be made known, and He wants His children to become like Him.

How should I be more like God? Tell my children I am going to punish them all there lives for something an ancestor did? Tell them part of their being will last forever and be tortured by me because they don't think as I want them to? Should I send my children to kill  most of the neighbors so they'll have land to build their houses and build a place to worship me? Have my children use the surviving neighbors, all virgin children, as whores or sell them into prostitution?

Maybe that was the problem Andrea Yates of Texas had. She was trying to be god-like, and pulled a Noah on her children. People were really freaked over this, yet think it's plausable that a loving god would do worse.

No, none of you have answers for the hard questions, except to say God's thoughts are higher than ours. That's an easy out and explains nothing.

How serious it is, and how powerful God is.

I was raised with fire and brimstone preaching Sunday morning, Sunday night plus prayer meeting on Wed. I know how serious this all is. If I thought any of it was plausable, I'd be on my knees in a second. As for God's power, he either does not exist or is impotent. I hear proofs such as God's healing or God blessed us with money to buy food. If he wanted belief, the big man would make a few amputated legs and arms grow back. Lizards can do it, why can't God? If he wanted belief He would strike dead anyone who touched his graven monument, as the book said he did with the ark.

Eyeball

We are not punished for something ancestors did.  True it was through ancestors that sin entered the world, but we are punished for our own sins.  He has given us all the proof we need, why should he have to do anything more?

[Whitehorse]

God is not like a man; He has higher thoughts and higher priorities. And He wants His character to be made known, and He wants His children to become like Him.

How should I be more like God? Tell my children I am going to punish them all there lives for something an ancestor did? Tell them part of their being will last forever and be tortured by me because they don't think as I want them to? Should I send my children to kill  most of the neighbors so they'll have land to build their houses and build a place to worship me? Have my children use the surviving neighbors, all virgin children, as whores or sell them into prostitution?

Despite your feelings, there should be something whispering to you that He is the Author of the ten commandments. If He makes these good laws, then it must be that He Himself is good. His justice is not a bad thing. And He offers you escape from His wrath. He made ten little rules with many implications. I can't keep them perfectly. No one else at this forum can keep them perfectly either. Can you?

Whenever you feel God is only a God of wrath, it's either because people distorted His character to you for their own purposes, or because you're not looking at what the people in the Bible did to offend God.
 

I was raised with fire and brimstone preaching Sunday morning, Sunday night plus prayer meeting on Wed. I know how serious this all is. If I thought any of it was plausable, I'd be on my knees in a second.

But what about the fact that He also spilled His own blood on the ground, took the beatings on His own back, to protect you from this? That should bring you to your knees, too. Is it a lack of grace that turned you against God? Did people teach you only His wrath and not His mercy so that they could control you for their own sinful power trips? Do you have a hard time accepting that He is also a God of incredible grace and mercy, and so you say He doesn't exist? Or is it just a case of wanting to live how you want to live, so you think God doesn't exist in order to remove the restraints that keep you from sin?

As for God's power, he either does not exist or is impotent. I hear proofs such as God's healing or God blessed us with money to buy food. If he wanted belief, the big man would make a few amputated legs and arms grow back. Lizards can do it, why can't God?

Obviously God created the lizards with this ability. But it's true that God doesn't want everyone to believe. How could He show His justice otherwise? But everyone who genuinely seeks Him will be found by Him. God's word never returns void. It always achieves its purposes. One of my favorite quotes by Bob Coy is this: "The same sun that melts wax hardens clay." If you feel at all inclined to seek Him, that desire comes from Him, as a gift of His mercy. Perhaps this is why He brought you here.

Grace and blessings to you.

[Heidi]

God is trying to show humanity that life in this world is not as important as eternal life. When Jesus asked God why He had abandoned Him, he said it was because His flesh was weak. Even in His death he knew that His sacrifice was far more important than His own fleshly life. He said that you have to lose your life in order to save it. We humans who are attached to life in this world find death a tragedy. But the ones who are filled with the spirit know that our death can bring about something even more glorious.

[eyeball]

Whitehorse said

Despite your feelings, there should be something whispering to you that He is the Author of the ten commandments.

If I start hearing voices in my head and then obeying them, I hope to be put away and medicated.

Whenever you feel God is only a God of wrath, it's either because people distorted His character to you for their own purposes, or because you're not looking at what the people in the Bible did to offend God.

Another option, the one that works for me, is to know the book is a fake. All these millions over the years fooled by a bunch of middle eastern goatherders. God is not wrathful, for he DOES NO EXIST! His followers on the other hand, have been known for their wrath and excellent torture tecniques.

Did people teach you only His wrath and not His mercy so that they could control you for their own sinful power trips?

Are you kidding? You think I was Catholic? Come on. You folks are always trying this. You think if someone doesn't believe in a god, they must hate that god. Then you try to pry out some kind of horrible chidhood trauma, I guess for your listening pleasure. Listen, he does not exist. I do not hate a thing that is not.Yeah I heard the fire and brimstone preaching about hell as a kid, but adults always left out the other parts. Blasphemy removed 9-3-2003 bepI found these on my own, along with the genocide of the Bible. And by the way, sorry to disappoint you, but I had a wonderful childhood.

Are any of you going to answer my questions?
Eyeball

[preacherintraining]

if only we could lock you away, but exactly what underage rapes are you speaking of???

[Heidi]

Well it looks like we've found someone who knows more than Christ. You very definitely are angry. There is bitterness in your writing, probably at your parents for shoving Christianity down your throat. Just because you don't know God doesn't mean He doesn't exist. I know it may be hard for you to believe, but there's a lot you don't know...unless of course you think you're omniscient which is delusions of grandeur.