DISCUSSION FORUMS
MAIN MENU
Home
Help
Advanced Search
Recent Posts
Site Statistics
Who's Online
Forum Rules
Bible Resources
• Bible Study Aids
• Bible Devotionals
• Audio Sermons
Community
• ChristiansUnite Blogs
• Christian Forums
• Facebook Apps
Web Search
• Christian Family Sites
• Top Christian Sites
• Christian RSS Feeds
Family Life
• Christian Finance
• ChristiansUnite KIDS
Shop
• Christian Magazines
• Christian Book Store
Read
• Christian News
• Christian Columns
• Christian Song Lyrics
• Christian Mailing Lists
Connect
• Christian Singles
• Christian Classifieds
Graphics
• Free Christian Clipart
• Christian Wallpaper
Fun Stuff
• Clean Christian Jokes
• Bible Trivia Quiz
• Online Video Games
• Bible Crosswords
Webmasters
• Christian Guestbooks
• Banner Exchange
• Dynamic Content

Subscribe to our Free Newsletter.
Enter your email address:

ChristiansUnite
Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 03, 2023, 07:36:33 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
286600 Posts in 27568 Topics by 3790 Members
Latest Member: Goodwin
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  ChristiansUnite Forums
|-+  Theology
| |-+  Prophecy - Current Events (Moderator: admin)
| | |-+  A World Ruler is coming!
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: A World Ruler is coming!  (Read 3111 times)
sunodino
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49


People get ready, there's a train a comin' !


View Profile
« on: August 27, 2003, 10:56:11 PM »

The world is falling in love - with Lucifer.  A shocking conclusion, but true. Individually, one would expect an unequivocal denial, but the truth is, the world is wooed, thrilled, frightened, stroked, shocked, angered, debated, caressed and beaten by this suitor-  and they love it!  Like a massive, bloody game of roller ball, excited players and mesmerized voyeurs. But almost everyone is playing and loving every minute of it.

A once hated foe, today, the mystique of this entity is arousing an amorous curiosity. We have never seen him as he is. We hear of him, we are embraced daily by his philosophies and his dogma. We are courted and romanced by his shadow. He is revealing himself little by little. The man with the mask, the man in the mirror.  

The world is inspired to write love songs and script about his character, performed in movie and on stage. He wants to tell us his real name.  He wants to throw off his cape and shout I am Yours Truly.  Soon and very soon he will.

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:..." 2 Thes. 2:8

Greek : anomos apokalupto; anonymous takes off cover

While "Christians" are tangled up with issues like homsexuality, the ten commandments in a public builiding, the world is running headlong into complacency, and the church is in a stupor, looking for wealth and health.  But the Bible says, as in the days of Noah, so shall the coming of the son of man be, eating, drinking, etc.  they knew NOT until the flood came and took them all away.

The Bible interprets itself.  The World leader is in the wings.  He is alive, and plotting his next move.  He is tied to the Iraq war and the peace process. He is a little horn out of the Eastern leg of the Roman Empire, which was a part of the Greek Empire.  The book of Daniel gives us the clues that match Revelation 12, 13, 17.

Logged

Sunodino travails...
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15
Hitch
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


I'm a llama!


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2003, 07:49:51 PM »

Wanna bet?

Hitch

Sorry I missed this the first time..

Soon and very soon he will.

Definition please?

Im also curious about which Scripture it is that tells you this boogey-man is alive?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2003, 10:09:43 PM by Hitch » Logged
Reba
Guest
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2003, 09:34:03 PM »

According to scripture GOD is the GOD of earth.
Logged
sunodino
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49


People get ready, there's a train a comin' !


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2003, 12:25:03 PM »

According to scripture GOD is the GOD of earth.

Reba,
First of all, I have read some of your postings.  I find you very contentious and a debater of nonsense.  So your blurb, God is the God of the earth strikes me as superfluous.  Yet I will reply;
Rev. 17:14,15  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 5  And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Rev 13:7-9  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.   And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.   If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Logged

Sunodino travails...
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15
Reba
Guest
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2003, 12:40:16 PM »

According to scripture GOD is the GOD of earth.

Reba,
First of all, I have read some of your postings.  I find you very contentious and a debater of nonsense.  So your blurb, God is the God of the earth strikes me as superfluous.  Yet I will reply;
Rev. 17:14,15  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 5  And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Rev 13:7-9  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.   And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.   If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Rev 11:4
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
KJV

Gen 24:3
3 And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:
KJV

Superfluous?

Surly you do not find the Word of God to be superfluous also.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2003, 12:43:30 PM by Reba » Logged
sunodino
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49


People get ready, there's a train a comin' !


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2003, 12:48:16 PM »


Wanna bet?
Hitch

I don't gamble, but I will give you scripture:
2 Thes 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (closer now than ever)

Romans 9:28  For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

4932. suntemno, soon-tem'-no; from G4862 and the base of G5114; to contract by cutting, i.e. (fig.) do concisely (speedily):--(cut) short.

1 Cor 7:29a But this I say, brethren, the time is short:

short - 4958. sustello, soos-tel'-lo; from G4862 and G4724; to send (draw) together, i.e. enwrap (enshroud a corpse for burial), contract (an interval):--short, wind up.

Rev. 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

short - 3641. oligos, ol-ee'-gos; of uncert. affin.; puny (in extent, degree, number, duration or value); espec. neut. (adv.) somewhat:--+ almost, brief [-ly], few, (a) little, + long, a season, short, small, a while.



Hitch writes:
Sorry I missed this the first time..

Soon and very soon he will.

Definition please?

I use my Merriam-Webster dictionary for pronunciation, function, etymology and definition. Here are scriptures that explain the "soon, very soon" philosophy:

Hitch writes:
Im also curious about which Scripture it is that tells you this boogey-man is alive?

Scriptures show the spirit of antichrist has been in the world since we entered into the "last days" and is coming to maturity:

1 John 2:18-21  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.   They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.  But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.   I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

2 Thes 2:3-7
3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?   And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Logged

Sunodino travails...
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15
sunodino
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49


People get ready, there's a train a comin' !


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2003, 01:04:09 PM »

According to scripture GOD is the GOD of earth.


Rev 11:4
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
KJV

Gen 24:3
3 And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:
KJV

Superfluous?

Surly you do not find the Word of God to be superfluous also.
The WORD OF GOD IS PRECIOUS! I hold it dearer than my life! But, you need a Bible teacher for this area. You are grabbing at scriptures to make a fast reply, and I appreciate that. Yes the God is the earth but have you not understood, that there is a world leader, antichrist that will decieve the whole world?

Rev. 17:14,15  "These shall make war with the Lamb..."

The word "These" in the above scripture ARE NOT THE TWO WITNESSES of Revelation 11. They are the 10 Horns OF THE BEAST.

Your trying to be a Bible teacher, and in this case you need to read a bit more study on this subject. Again I repeat verse 9 of Rev 13: If any man have an ear, LET HIM HEAR.,


Logged

Sunodino travails...
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15
Mr. 5020
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 194


Proverbs 27:5


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2003, 02:40:29 PM »

Quote
According to scripture GOD is the GOD of earth.

Reba, I think Dino got you on this one.  Think about when Jesus was tempted in the desert.  The devil said (paraphrased), "If you bow to me, I will give you everything that you see."

Now, Jesus did not say, "You can't give it to me!  It's not yours!"  You know why he didn't say that?  Because he knew that the earth was Satan's.  It was forfeited to him in the garden.  He is even referred to as "the ruler of the world" (see John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11).  BTW, those are quotes of Jesus.
Logged

Mr. 5020
---------------
"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why so few engage in it." -Henry Ford
Reba
Guest
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2003, 04:43:48 PM »

Which of the 4 verses in all of scripture that use the word antichrist, use the word (antichrist) to mean one man? You listed them which one?
 
 ~from the little books of John~

. . . and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists;

. . . Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

. . . and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

. . . This is a deceiver and an antichrist


Which of the four speak of a single, one man, world ruler? John the beloved who penned these verses does not aline the  title  of antichrist to one man  does he?  Who is man to adjust the  Word of GOD to fit his doctrine?
Logged
Reba
Guest
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2003, 04:55:57 PM »

Quote
According to scripture GOD is the GOD of earth.

Reba, I think Dino got you on this one.  Think about when Jesus was tempted in the desert.  The devil said (paraphrased), "If you bow to me, I will give you everything that you see."

Now, Jesus did not say, "You can't give it to me!  It's not yours!"  You know why he didn't say that?  Because he knew that the earth was Satan's.  It was forfeited to him in the garden.  He is even referred to as "the ruler of the world" (see John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11).  BTW, those are quotes of Jesus.


John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
KJV
John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
KJV
John 16:11
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged
KJV

The above verses  do not say satan is the "God of this earth."  Now these do say who is God of the earth.


Rev 11:4
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
KJV

Gen 24:3
3 And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:

 and both are of a time after the 'garden'  maybe you dont believe Jesus has the power to judge the 'prince' and cast him out.
Logged
sunodino
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49


People get ready, there's a train a comin' !


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2003, 03:46:04 AM »

Which of the 4 verses in all of scripture that use the word antichrist, use the word (antichrist) to mean one man? You listed them which one?
 
 
Which of the four speak of a single, one man, world ruler? John the beloved who penned these verses does not aline the  title  of antichrist to one man  does he?  Who is man to adjust the  Word of GOD to fit his doctrine?


The scriptures listed were in answer to Hitch asking for proof of living anitchrist (and thus the spirit of which is among us today).

To narrow down this particular spiritual crusader, who intends to conquer the world, are the following versus from  Rev. 13:2-7,18, which also was penned by John apprx. 95ad

2  And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4  And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5  And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

My intention is not to debate God's sovereignty, I don't need to declare it, the heavens declare it every day, Ps 19:1,2; but to discuss the world ruler.  If nobody on this forum wants to do that, so be it.  For me, that is center field!
Logged

Sunodino travails...
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15
Hitch
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


I'm a llama!


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2003, 12:24:41 PM »

Quote
According to scripture GOD is the GOD of earth.

Reba, I think Dino got you on this one.  Think about when Jesus was tempted in the desert.  The devil said (paraphrased), "If you bow to me, I will give you everything that you see."

Now, Jesus did not say, "You can't give it to me!  It's not yours!"  You know why he didn't say that?  Because he knew that the earth was Satan's.  It was forfeited to him in the garden.  He is even referred to as "the ruler of the world" (see John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11).  BTW, those are quotes of Jesus.
Quotes of Jesus....


John 12:31-33
31   Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32   And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33   This he said, signifying what death he should die.
(KJV)


Seems you have forgotten the value of the work of the cross.

take care

H
Logged
Hitch
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


I'm a llama!


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2003, 12:39:40 PM »

Scriptures show the spirit of antichrist has been in the world since we entered into the "last days" and is coming to maturity:


Coming to maturity?  No silly its the Kingdom of God that is coming to maturity. And that because the one you grant so much power to was thrown out of power at the cross.

You addressed your 'soon and very soon' but I coulndt grasp what you were trying to say. How a bout a simple down to earth  time frame?

Also I asked why you think the scripture tell you the antichrist boogey-man is alive today.  Nothing in your answer so far supports the notion than any specific person is alive today and up to  the specific mischief.

Someone has been trying to control others, individual;s and nations  and this is common among fallen men, nothing special to the current generation.

So there remains two basic questions.

Why do you personalize 'antichrist' when the Scriptures do not.


And as above;

What Scripture narrows the ages down to this generation? (as you have previously stated this person is living today,,,as opposed ot antichristian spiritual adversaries)


Its not as though you have made some orginal claim.This same thing has been said  since the earlisest days of the church and in every case the 'generation' has been moved further into the future. As was the case for LaHaye when he claimed the terminal generation saw WWI, and we all know Hal's recent meanderings, altering his 'time guide' by as many years as needed. and gee ,,would it be fair to even mention Jack the Impe?,,,,

Take care

Hitch
« Last Edit: August 30, 2003, 12:56:33 PM by Hitch » Logged
sunodino
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49


People get ready, there's a train a comin' !


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2003, 02:02:53 PM »


Coming to maturity?  No silly its the Kingdom of God that is coming to maturity. And that because the one you grant so much power to was thrown out of power at the cross.

First of all, please don't call me silly or use any other negative adjectives when referring to me.  It comes off very superior, and frankly, you have not earned that yet, although I find your questions very clever and deeply probing .
Here's your answer on maturity:
Matt 13:26-30
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.  So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?  But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
the above parable of Jesus is a reflection of the growing process of the believers and non-believers, therefore there is a maturing process of both.  To address the hierarchy of rulership both good and bad additional scriptures follow:

Eph 6:12,13
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

------->>>Hitch writes:
You addressed your 'soon and very soon' but I coulndt grasp what you were trying to say. How a bout a simple down to earth  time frame?

I will put a time frame if I get a divine visit from Gabriel. Wink Of course I don't have a time frame, but Paul said this:
1 Thes 5:1-6
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Just as the surrounding natural elements change drastically with the four seasons, which narrow the months into 4 separate and short spans of forward moving time, and they are very clearly recognized, so are the times we live in when ALL the scripture is pieced together.  Jesus, himself, NEVER clear gave a date of a time of his death or resurrection, nor the day of Pentecost's gather in which 120 (including Mary, Jesus' mother) were all filled with the Holy Ghost.  One had to gather the facts together.  It is this gathering of scripture that I originally was hoping to discuss when I started this subject on the coming World ruler.

------------>>>Hitch writes
Also I asked why you think the scripture tell you the antichrist boogey-man is alive today.  Nothing in your answer so far supports the notion than any specific person is alive today and up to  the specific mischief.

Someone has been trying to control others, individual;s and nations  and this is common among fallen men, nothing special to the current generation.

So there remains two basic questions.

Why do you personalize 'antichrist' when the Scriptures do not.

In fact the scriptures DO personalize him:
2 Thes 2:3-5
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

------------->>Again Hitch
And as above;

What Scripture narrows the ages down to this generation? (as you have previously stated this person is living today,,,as opposed ot antichristian spiritual adversaries)

Again piecing together old and new testament information, we see the dispersing and regathering of the Jews.  In 1948, Israel was declared a state, and not since 605BC were they in control of that territory, not even in the days of Jesus. Rome was in control then.  This small piece of the prophetic pie is one of few reasons why Hitler could not have been the world ruler, although he implemented many of the characteristics.

The peace process, Iraq war, and more to come are all implements of the rise to power of the person, that is alive today.


Its not as though you have made some orginal claim.This same thing has been said  since the earlisest days of the church and in every case the 'generation' has been moved further into the future. As was the case for LaHaye when he claimed the terminal generation saw WWI, and we all know Hal's recent meanderings, altering his 'time guide' by as many years as needed. and gee ,,would it be fair to even mention Jack the Impe?,,,,

Am I supposed to be the original on prophecy? Don't think so. I am NOT a follower of Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe or any of these guys, though I have read many of their books, and others, including Marvin Rosenthal, Grant Jeffries (sp).  I have formed my own take on this subject with much constant study for years, much prayer, and patience waiting for the Lord to confirm, in the witness of two or more, for my conclusions.  I am committed to follow Jesus.

Thanks
sunodino - travailing for the lost

Logged

Sunodino travails...
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15
Hitch
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


I'm a llama!


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2003, 05:17:16 PM »


Coming to maturity?  No silly its the Kingdom of God that is coming to maturity. And that because the one you grant so much power to was thrown out of power at the cross.

First of all, please don't call me silly or use any other negative adjectives when referring to me.  It comes off very superior, and frankly, you have not earned that yet, although I find your questions very clever and deeply probing .
Here's your answer on maturity:
Matt 13:26-30
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.  So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?  But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
the above parable of Jesus is a reflection of the growing process of the believers and non-believers, therefore there is a maturing process of both.  To address the hierarchy of rulership both good and bad additional scriptures follow:
Is it reasonable to say since God is the rewarder of those who seek him and cuttsoff the wicked and blesses the righteous that even though evil will be present the spiritual and cultural effects of the work of the cross will prevail in history?The work of the crfoss is iether greater or lesser than the fall of Adam...What do you say?
Quote

Eph 6:12,13
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
And as during the conquest, the battle was the Lord's and essentially already won. Since our battle is historical ,as was Christ's while in the flesh, our victory is historical as well. The simple fact that God has called us to battle should be enough for us to understand who the victor will be, God cannot fail.
Quote

------->>>Hitch writes:
You addressed your 'soon and very soon' but I coulndt grasp what you were trying to say. How a bout a simple down to earth  time frame?

I will put a time frame if I get a divine visit from Gabriel. Wink Of course I don't have a time frame, but Paul said this:
1 Thes 5:1-6
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. edited for space .

Just as the surrounding natural elements change drastically with the four seasons, which narrow the months into 4 separate and short spans of forward moving time, and they are very clearly recognized, so are the times we live in when ALL the scripture is pieced together.  Jesus, himself, NEVER clear gave a date of a time of his death or resurrection, nor the day of Pentecost's gather in which 120 (including Mary, Jesus' mother) were all filled with the Holy Ghost.  One had to gather the facts together.  It is this gathering of scripture that I originally was hoping to discuss when I started this subject on the coming World ruler.
Undefined terms are meaningless. You used 'soon and very soon' to convey some idea. What was that idea in real terms ?
Quote
------------>>>Hitch writes
Also I asked why you think the scripture tell you the antichrist boogey-man is alive today.  Nothing in your answer so far supports the notion than any specific person is alive today and up to  the specific mischief.

Someone has been trying to control others, individual;s and nations  and this is common among fallen men, nothing special to the current generation.

So there remains two basic questions.

Why do you personalize 'antichrist' when the Scriptures do not.

In fact the scriptures DO personalize him:
2 Thes 2:3-5
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
This describes every Roman Emporer as well as many other despots of the biblical era
Quote

------------->>Again Hitch
And as above;

What Scripture narrows the ages down to this generation? (as you have previously stated this person is living today,,,as opposed ot antichristian spiritual adversaries)

Again piecing together old and new testament information, we see the dispersing and regathering of the Jews.  In 1948, Israel was declared a state, and not since 605BC were they in control of that territory, not even in the days of Jesus. Rome was in control then.  This small piece of the prophetic pie is one of few reasons why Hitler could not have been the world ruler, although he implemented many of the characteristics.
What prophecy involes the events of 1948? There has been no prophecy of return to the land since the Babylonian captivity. And in this case repentence in the land of capitivty was required before restoration.



IKing 8:47-48
47   Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness;
48   And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name:
(KJV)


This pattern is also used by Jery:

Jer 29:12-14
12   Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
13   And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
14   And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.
(KJV)


These things have long since happened ,but the pattern is clear. Repentance before restoration.
Modern Israel is not repentant. And as an antichristian state has no claims whatever to God's blessings.
Quote

The peace process, Iraq war, and more to come are all implements of the rise to power of the person, that is alive today.[/color]
Well what Scripture says this? What Scripture mentions a realitively small war to take place in Iraq thousands of years  future ,from the point of the prophecy?

This looks so familiar.

 If we read of war the prophecy mongers come out shouting the end is near.. and they never define near ...

If we read of peace the prophecy mongers come out shouting the end is near...
Quote

Its not as though you have made some orginal claim.This same thing has been said  since the earlisest days of the church and in every case the 'generation' has been moved further into the future. As was the case for LaHaye when he claimed the terminal generation saw WWI, and we all know Hal's recent meanderings, altering his 'time guide' by as many years as needed. and gee ,,would it be fair to even mention Jack the Impe?,,,,

Am I supposed to be the original on prophecy?
You brought this on yourself in your 'soon and very soon' claim. The implication is that you understand above any one who disagreees the will of God wrt the realatively near future, its up to you to support such a claim
Quote
Don't think so. I am NOT a follower of Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe or any of these guys, though I have read many of their books, and others, including Marvin Rosenthal, Grant Jeffries (sp).  I have formed my own take on this subject with much constant study for years, much prayer, and patience waiting for the Lord to confirm, in the witness of two or more, for my conclusions.  I am committed to follow Jesus.
With only what is on this thread its easy enough to see your conclusions are a rehash of Walvoord's expectations expressed in Armageddon Oil and the Middle East Crisisin 1974. Which failed to come to pass, not once but twice with the 1990 revision and reprint.( I m not saying you took your ideas from that work, but obviously you have heard and read enough of a similar nature and have been influenced by them) The only problem being that in every case in all history, short term expectations, which yours certainly is, based on futuristic outlooks have been proven wrong. And a common factor is the 'it couldnt have been then it must be now'...fill in the blank reasoning.
Quote

Thanks
sunodino - travailing for the lost[/color]

Take care

Hitch
« Last Edit: August 30, 2003, 05:29:44 PM by Hitch » Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



More From ChristiansUnite...    About Us | Privacy Policy | | ChristiansUnite.com Site Map | Statement of Beliefs



Copyright © 1999-2019 ChristiansUnite.com. All rights reserved.
Please send your questions, comments, or bug reports to the

Powered by SMF 1.1 RC2 | SMF © 2001-2005, Lewis Media