"Krystallnacht, 1938"--American Dictatorship

[Symphony]

Just occurred to me, the gay rights thing is the "Krystallnacht, 1938" for the American Christian.  The Supreme Court decision in June this summer, not to mention other gay-related victories this year,  overturning sodomy laws in the remaining 12+ states has literally overnight changed the climate here.

Virtually overnight, an invisible "dictatorship" where you only say anything at your peril.  An unspoken caveat to keep our mouths shut.

The gays will be willing to stage violence in order to make it look like the "anti-gays"(more specifically, Christians) did the violence(arson, etc.).  Most law-abiding "citizens" in the interest of their own situations, will increasingly go along with them, just in order to abide by the law.  This is how they framed the Jews in late 30s Germany.

Added to this will be the further complication that some of the accusations will be undoubtedly true--there will no doubt be some reactionary types--"rednecks", "homophobes", fanatics, etc.--who will in fact resort to outright violence "against gays".

But underneath it all, there will no doubt be a collective, perhaps even well-thought-out and sophisticated effort to isolate, "ghetto-ize"(as with the Warsaw Jews), and erase or otherwise sanitize any Christian voice whatsoever--at least any Christian voice that dares to renounce homosexuality.

The Christians had their chance--freedom of the press, freedom of speech, these resent years.  Even the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc.,  refuse to come out and actually renounce gay behavior.

A few Christian ministers have.

[Hitch]

Good work Sym.

With your permission I would like to reproduce this at another site.

H

[Mr. 5020]

Well done, Sym.  You're right.  As Christians, we have given up ground for decades.  At one time, the entire nation was founded on Christian principles.  Slowly we gave up ground on issues like abortion, prayer in schools, etc., by not speaking up.  Now we are in a little bitty ghetto corner, where from when we speak we are given a resounding "Shut up!" and firm back hand across the face.

[Symphony]

Hi, Mr. 5020.  Yes, Hitch, that's fine.

tbs, I don't recall specifically mentioning a Gene Robinson in my post above.

Speaking of "fascism", it seems fairly well established that Adolf Hitler himself murdered to cover his own gay tracks.  A researched and fairly well authenticated book has been published to that effect.  I can refer you.

Another argument goes that the Death Camp category of Homosexuals was a population of the gay effeminate types, used as the whipping boys for the dominant gay Nazis--known as "butches".  Outwardly homosexuality of course was anathema to the Nazi cause, since Naziism promoted large families to facilitated breeding of a superior race, which gayness would thwart.

But covertly it seems the Nazis themselves were...ummm...

And check out Hermann Goering.  Waltzing around in pink ladies apparel?  Is that true?

Or just on the evil side alone, just type in the words, "Josef Mengele" into your search engine.  

But in my above post here earlier, I don't see any mention of a "Gene Robinson" at all.

[Symphony]

the pointlessly draconian laws governing their private behaviour removed and the social persecution that is aimed at them is being tamed.  


Pointlessly?--adultery, abortion, homosexuality, bestiality?--


"You shall not lie carnally with your neighbor's wife, and defile yourself with her.  

--Adultery is simply do unto your neighbor as you would have them do unto you, tbs.  You don't want someone stealing your partner, do you?  Prohibition against adultery is simply the Goldern Rule--or are we throwing out the Goldern Rule too??

You shall not give any of your children to devote them by fire to Molech, and so profane the name of your God:  I am the Lord.

Ditto.  Do unto these little children, as you would have done unto you--if you were a child.  No one aborted you, tbs.

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Prohibited.  In the same way even though there isn't anyone else around at an intersection, you still stop.  Why?  There isn't anyone else around.  No one's getting hurt.  Why isn't it okay just to ignore the stop sign??

And you shall not lie with any beast and defile yourself with it, neither whall any woman give herself to a beast to lie with it:  it is perversion."  (Lev. 18:21-23)

Ditto.  Prohibited.  (Surely you "agree" with that one.  Tho' on network news last December 28 year old male arrested doing it to sheep at a live public Nativity scene...).

Unless of course you don't honor scripture.  Then all of the above--even the Golden Rule, does not apply.

And, if those don't apply, then why are you here--on this website--ostensibly "Christian"(it says so in the name), and if Christian, then we hold true to HIs wonderful Gospel--the Good News, which He purchased for us by his blood, and to the Scriptures as handed down to us, which includes those of both Old and New Testaments...

You are accusing God of being draconian, and persecuting you "socially"?  

Yes, tbs,  your reply would befit the Satanic model of the accuser of the brethren and the accuser of God himself--as referred to in  the books of Job and Jude.  

And this is "private" behavior?  Hmm, network news again, last week gays in NY state parks swapping in the parking lots, going off to perform.  AIDS on the increase among young male AfroAmerican college students, and as a badge of honor?

[Elijah]

[quote author=blackeyedpeas link=board=4;threadid=1014;start=0#msg13741
Anyone who honors the Scriptures on the subject of gay behavior would quickly determine it is a sin, an abomination, and the prescribed punishment in the Old Testament was stoning to death. If the gays think their open sin and abomination is going to be accepted and respected, they are one fry short of a happy meal. Respect and acceptance can't and won't be legislated.

SPOT ON
 

[lizmom]

Love the sinner, hate the sin. Kind of hard to do, isn't it? Homosexuals who believe they are without sin are in danger of hellfire. Scripture clearly states homosexuality as sin, and if you are going to deny this, then you might as well deny the existence of God while you're at it. Why would God impose such a law on humans? Perhaps He has the right, as the author of humanity, to make the rules. Perhaps He has our safety from disease in mind. Perhaps He wants His people to preserve the form of family that He intended. Adam was lonely, and God did not give him an animal as a mate. He did not give Him another man. He saw that is was "not good for man to be alone," and He gave him woman. Man was empty, there was something missing from his life, and God created the perfect counterpart, the other half of the jigsaw puzzle. The 2 became one. God made marriage of man and wife to be a fulfilling and joyful thing. Just say for a moment, that God has not clearly stated in Scripture that homosexuality is a sin. Please tell me what *good* comes from it? God works in all things for the good of those who love Him. Marriage is good, two halves become a whole. Sex between (married) male and female is good, was meant to be, and creates new life. If God meant for male and male to unite, the human race would not exist, or men would be made to give birth. Think about it people! Compare your ideas to the word of God, please!
Back to my original point, let me remind everyone that *everyone* who thinks they are without sin is in danger of hellfire. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Let us be like Moses, who chose "rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin." My prayer is that homosexuals will turn to Christ and leave their sin. I pray that Christians will not be fooled into the worldview that any and every lifestyle we choose is OK. I also pray that we will all look in our own lives and see where we may be pleasing our own sinful nature instead of glorifying God. May He continue to lead His people in the right paths. Praise the name of the Lord!

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Lizmom,

I enjoyed your post. The sin of gay acts and acts with animals have the same punishment in the Old Testament, stoning to death. Some confuse the command to love them with tolerance, respect, and acceptance. Yes, we are to love them and attempt to bring them to Christ. If they stop, repent, and ask Jesus Christ to become their Lord and Saviour, they will be accepted.

In Christ,
Tom

[Symphony]

ebia:  Shame that there are other ways of interpreting scripture - you just have to look a bit more closely and stop taking everything at face value.

Symph:  Hmmm.  How do you interpret a stop sign, ebia?


ebia: Why?  That just doesn't follow.

Symph:  If you can't take a "stop sign" literally, ebia, why take any of the rest literally--like, "do unto others..."?  Homo'y is verboten numerously in the OT; and in the New.  And even if it isn't, it falls under "immorality"(i.e., fornication), which was one of the four prohibitions that the Apostles there in Acts did agree upon, to begin the new church.  The only way out of that one, is to get it under protection of marriage--which interestingly then creates the unwitting implication that if you're unmarried when you do commit acts of homosexuality, then you are prima facie admitting that homosexuality is immoral(otherwise, why would you be seeking the protection and sacrement of "marriage"--marriage simply gives God and community their blessing on what otherwise by definition is fornication, or immorality).  

[Symphony]

I wouldn't be too hard on her(or him).  She/he has a lot to think about.

But on 5020's point, also, we all would like Jesus' gift free of charge--and of course it is that--the free gift of eternal life.

But also, there is the cross, and we would like to have Jesus but without that cross.  Understandable, but not really the total picture.

But b/c of the cross, and the suffering thereon, there also then is a war--thus Jesus' reaction there with the moneychangers--a very real reality!  

Many of us would not like to admit to that.

'Hope you can come back, Wanderer....

   

[lizmom]

Ok, maybe my comment was a little snide. I am sorry that a fellow Christian would think we were loveless. I don't want to be perceived that way. But it is true that many Christians fall into accepting the sin while they "love" the sinner. I just don't think it's very loving to agree with people (homosexuals) as they disillusion themselves about God and how He has told us to live. I'm sorry that Wanderer was so disturbed by our discussion, but I'm sure that God is using this very discussion to work in the heart of Wanderer and each and every one of us. I, for one, need these reminders to be more loving, and to follow the Word more precisely. Iron sharpening iron.

[Saved_4ever]

I look at it this way.  Is it more loving of a family to let a person continue to abuse alcohol of drugs?  Or to confront them about their problem and get them to deal with it?

I know the answet and I hope more people do as well.  I have seen what happens to people who the famliy just lets go on in their "secular" sinful life (even unsaved people have some semblance of conduct though it grows slimmer all the time).

If you love your child you would scold them and correct them of their wrong doing, at least if you love them.  There are many verses about it but this one stands out the most because of what it says about someone who does not dicipline their child.  Pr 13:24
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

This same principle applies to us as children of God as well and it is even stated that if we are not chastened we should question our salvation.

[Saved_4ever]

Who said anything about shouting and considering the topic it would be the same as you telling the alcoholic they were born that way so it's ok.  Go ahead and get drunk again.  That what allowing the sin of homosexuality is.  God says it's an abomination and it's a choice not a gene.  You may have to yell at some people anyway just to get them to listen at first.  Denial runs rampant with alcoholics and drug users and 90% of the time you have to let them hit rock bottom before they want help.  Otherwise you are stuck yelling at them and forcing them to do things.  

Although if they had Jesus, their problems with such things would be quite easy to overcome.  The modern world thinks you need to blame everyone else for how you are.  This is a bunch of bunk.  

[Mr. 5020]

You don't turn someone off drugs, or solve alcoholism, by shouting at them that they are evil.  You do it by understanding where they are at, why they are doing what they are doing, gaining their trust, etc, etc.  Harrasment and verbal abuse is highly unlikely to solve the problem.

This is true, yet out of context.  I definitely would deal with a homosexual with more understanding love then I do on these boards.  But on these boards, I am not dealing with homosexuals.  I am dealing with ignorant, non-Bible believing, deceived Christians that are fulfilling: "My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge."

[nChrist]

This is true, yet out of context.  I definitely would deal with a homosexual with more understanding love then I do on these boards.  But on these boards, I am not dealing with homosexuals.  I am dealing with ignorant, non-Bible believing, deceived Christians that are fulfilling: "My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge."

Oklahoma Howdy to Mr. 5020,

I think if you ran a poll that the vast majority of the Christians using Christians Unite would take the Holy Bible to the letter on this subject. We are not living under the law or the punishment would be stoning to death. I have and will talk to gays about accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour. However, I would not tip toe around the subject, rather I would tell it like it is. It is an abominable sin. It was a death sentence offense, comparable only to the worst crimes.

I've seen the argument that everyone is a sinner, even a Christian in moments of weakness. However there is a big difference between a Christian stumbling, confessing, and asking forgiveness and someone who lives an open and abominable lifestyle on purpose, without remorse, and continuing with no intention of stopping and trying to obey God. If a person wishes to continually walk in darkness, Jesus Christ isn't there. If they wish to come to Jesus Christ, they will have to walk into the light.

There is no comparison between imperfect Christians trying to walk in the light and those who love and wallow in darkness. This is not the first discussion of this topic here. I will do everything I can to help a gay person and bring them to Christ. My attempt was and is in Christian love, but they will know DEFINITELY that I DO NOT accept, respect, or tolerate the gay lifestyle. Those who think they can continue this lifestyle and gain respect and acceptance are wasting their time. It really boils down to walking in the dark or walking in the light.

In Christ.