"Krystallnacht, 1938"--American Dictatorship

[nChrist]

Howdy Symphony,

I don't like current events either, but I think that it may lead to something positive. There is a growing rumble of a Constitutional Convention. There is also open contempt by many representatives of various court decisions. This one, even if it goes bad, may be the one that slows down or stops what I call the "evil train".

We also have quite a few Christians waking from their slumber and realizing they should have been doing something and saying something. I'm optimistic that even a bad decision on this one may bring something positive.

In Christ,
Tom
 

[Symphony]

Thank you, bep.  

Yes, I'm subject to distorted vision, that's for sure.  I'm all for an optimistic view of things.  I'm all for folks "waking up".

[Symphony]

On August 21, on this thread, the following:

Reply #57 on: August 21, 2003, 01:32:18 PM »      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The original intent of this thread, that we are transitioning into an American Dictatorship(at least here in U.S.), and that this parallels what happened to Germany with the Nazis in the 1930s, has reached a next stage--that is, actual violence.

I am offering a continuance of that projection under a separate thread here, Part II.  It represents that stage where violence actually begins, against those who openly reject homosexuallity.

'Tho I won't frame it here yet, I'm project further also, later on, a Part III.  This will represent "beyond" just the initial violence--as with the brownshirts in 1930s Germany.  Part III will represent where persecution of the Jews or, in America's case, persecution of the Christians, will be actually legislated--that is, a matter of public law.

It isn't there yet.  But already a brief has been filed for repeal of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy of our military; also, there is Federal hate crimes legislation, not yet confirmed, extending protection to gays and lesbians.

When those things are confirmed, I see us then as moving in to Part III or, that is, in Germany, the "Final Solution", which was decided on in 1942(for death camps like Auschwitz, Treblinka, etc., four years after Crystal Night).

But for right now, just Part II or, that is, just the variable violence, and "ghetto-ization" of Christians who dare to say a word.  


Part II, or, actual violence against Christians, is elsewhere here under Current Events.

Part III, that is, actual legislation aimed at Christians, hasn't occurred yet, so I haven't proposed to begin that as a thread yet.  However, a new book, by David Limbaugh, Rush's brother, Persecution:  How Liberals Are Waging War Against Christianity was just released.

I'm guessing that when we do reach Part III, that one comparison might be, to what was called The Court of the Star Chamber, in England, roughly 1400s to 1600s.  The court could not issue a death sentence, but everything else just short of that, including torture, and, it did so under secrecy.  The court got its name from a pattern of stars design on the ceiling of the judicial court building.

That is, the actual legislation may not be outright, or an actual law, but something you do clandestinely--simply silence any opposing voice whatsoever--which could be routinely performed by all three main insitutions:  Government, commerce and, the church--indeed, just refuse employment to an outspoken Christian in any one of those three arenas, and you have significantly reduced much of any Christian voice at all.

But since this would not be actual legislation, its a little offtopic for Part III, and is really not on topic with Parts I or II, either.  So I'll begin a separate "Star Chamber" thread...

[Symphony]

From the original post here, last August:

Just occurred to me, the gay rights thing is the "Krystallnacht, 1938" for the American Christian.  The Supreme Court decision in June this summer, not to mention other gay-related victories this year,  overturning sodomy laws in the remaining 12+ states has literally overnight changed the climate here.

Virtually overnight, an invisible "dictatorship" where you only say anything at your peril.  An unspoken caveat to keep our mouths shut.

The gays will be willing to stage violence in order to make it look like the "anti-gays"(more specifically, Christians) did the violence(arson, etc.).  Most law-abiding "citizens" in the interest of their own situations, will increasingly go along with them, just in order to abide by the law.  This is how they framed the Jews in late 30s Germany.

Added to this will be the further complication that some of the accusations will be undoubtedly true--there will no doubt be some reactionary types--"rednecks", "homophobes", fanatics, etc.--who will in fact resort to outright violence "against gays".

But underneath it all, there will no doubt be a collective, perhaps even well-thought-out and sophisticated effort to isolate, "ghetto-ize"(as with the Warsaw Jews), and erase or otherwise sanitize any Christian voice whatsoever--at least any Christian voice that dares to renounce homosexuality.

The Christians had their chance--freedom of the press, freedom of speech, these resent years.  Even the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc.,  refuse to come out and actually renounce gay behavior.

A few Christian ministers have.

__________________________________________


The key words, to me, in the above post are Virtually overnight.

That is to me now, what has happened this week.   In Nazi Germany, it happened overnight--November of 1938(I forget the exact day).

The only difference is, this has been done non-violently.

In San Francisco, you have a city disregarding state law.  Isn't that then a law enforcement issue?  A state highway patrol issue?  All it would take is a few officers(with backup waiting if necessary) to simply shut down the city's illegal activity.  

Apparently, there's just too much complicity all the way up the chain, from local city gov't, now, to county, to state--most key individuals in that chain, now, I imagine, would be at least gay sympathizers.

As of today, now more than 3000 "marriage licenses" issued to gay/lesbian.  Very strangely, as Rush Limbaugh pointed out today, they want the legal protection and benefits of a marriage "license", yet they disregard the marriage law of that state(Prop. 22, passed in 1996?).

This disregard for the law, while seeking out at the same protection of "the law", is the clearest indicator of their clear intent.

And just today, a county in New Mexico, just north of Albuquerque.

And like with the Nazis on Krystallnacht, you will fall into line.  

And these folks aren't wearing uniforms.
 

[nChrist]

In San Francisco, you have a city disregarding state law.  Isn't that then a law enforcement issue?  A state highway patrol issue?  All it would take is a few officers(with backup waiting if necessary) to simply shut down the city's illegal activity.  

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,

The officers were more than likely prevented from taking any enforcement action. That's politics deluxe in action. Since a Mayor is the main player, it would probably take the Governor to act, and I guarantee a brand new Governor will get a legal opinion first. I'm hoping the final result will be that all of the marriages are null, and those involved will either be charged or recalled from office.

There is also a bill going through the house right now that will ban same sex marriage and civil unions. If it passes, there will be a round of court hearings. It would be nice to see this evil ended. However, we said the same thing about Roe vs. Wade.

We can all pray, sign every petition that becomes available, write our representatives, join email flooding campaigns of the House and the Senate, and vote the turkeys out of office if they don't do what is right. However, the problem with most political turkeys is they are all wimpy and afraid to take a stand.

I guess we could let you finish the design of your shirts and get 50 million plus per day wearing them to see what that would do. In terms of homophobia, I don't think that anyone fears them at all. Some of the politicians might be worried about losing some campaign funds and votes, but nobody is afraid of them.

Love In Christ,
Tom  

[onestarfisher]

What shirts? The one I mentioned I was wearing (HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN) or is there another also? I'd love to get mine printed but I don't think there is much of a market for the wording....I have another one in mind that would "go over" better.....I'll keep you posted, if I get that far! In the meantime, nothing wrong with a good old white t shirt and some permanent markers...

[onestarfisher]

What really bothers me about this (aside from the obvious) is that by the courts waiting to deal with this (SF is now waiting until Mar 29) there will be so many more "marriages" performed that they're likely to go, well, so many have been done so far, we can't just make them all illegal now.....I think it's a deliberate stall technique.

[Symphony]

Hmm, thank you, bep.  Yep, I figure it is all key individuals all the way up through the state capital putting the brakes on--taking their time.


Mar. 29 courtdate, onestar, postponed to?  Yikes.  Well, that's convenient.    Why am I not surprised.  


I'd love to get mine printed but I don't think there is much of a market for the wording


That's what I'm afraid of if I tried to make it a business.  I went to the T-shirt ad on this website--or one of them.  The shirts there just strike me as sentimental, saccharine, or something.  

Still, your shirt ideas might work as a business.   Attitudes change; sometimes something you think  no way will it work, all of a sudden it just seems to be just the ticket.  Who knows, from your description of responses, you may win gays over to wearing the shirts also--evangelizing from the "inside"--faster than very many Christians might ever deign to don them--I'd rather "silently" condemn them.  

That's what occurred to me with yours, onestar.  It's so simple--yet it seems to be just the ticket--with the right attitude.

Sometimes, people are like children--they WANT to be told that they are wrong.  

[onestarfisher]

Well, the jury is still out - I don't go out a lot in that shirt, just some of the time. I don't want to be condemning towards people, altho I don't think i feel that way inside. I am angry at lies and sin, and I think we are to speak up for the truth - firmly, definitely, no hemming and hawing. It's as a warning to people. But I don't think many will hear. Still, it has gotten the attention of people, and some homosexuals - maybe it would shock some of them into investigating further? I am very pleasant to people, but you can be pleasant and still be truthful. Stating something is a sin is not a bad thing - they are looking for an excuse to hang onto their homosexuality. Where are the people who are willing to stand up and say "this is wrong!" whatever it is we're talking about. I've also thought of having ready a list of websites or places that are resources to homosexuals to come out of the lifestyle.

[Symphony]

Where are the people who are willing to stand up and say "this is wrong!" whatever it is we're talking about. I've also thought of having ready a list of websites or places that are resources to homosexuals to come out of the lifestyle

Hmm.  Yes.


I'm thinking about making my whole wardrobe(hehe--such as it is... ), with something on it.

I'm thinking even a whole "fashion line", of maybe casual dress items, expressing in various forms, a general theme--"Unto us a Child is born..."  and "Homosexuality is a sin"...  etc.  

It's be a quite a "fashion statement"...hehe.

I'm not meaning to make fun of any of it.  But just an overall attitude of how to go about it...

We're clearly in the wrong about this--that is, America.  But where else, equally, do you have the freedom to point out that wrongness?  So maybe with a whole "fashion line" of clothing.

Much of the "Christian" stuff I see is saccharine or impotent, or just commercial, it seems.

[onestarfisher]

Yep. I was thinking T shirts ( I too, will probably need little else if I paint everything). Also bumper stickers, but removeable ones. Like magnetic signs with a sticket pasted on it so you can change them out or remove them. You could print one for yourself on a computer. And I even thought of those triangular signs on the top of the car that pizza places have, and cabs - where there is a message on 3 sided.

I saw today, the coolest thing, in a parking lot. A nice pickup with this lettered on the back "BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved" with scripture reference. Then, down each side of the truck was lettered Smile, Jesus loves you!

[Symphony]

...from the beginning Post of this thread, last August:

....But underneath it all, there will no doubt be a collective, perhaps even well-thought-out and sophisticated effort to isolate, "ghetto-ize"(as with the Warsaw Jews), and erase or otherwise sanitize any Christian voice whatsoever--at least any Christian voice that dares to renounce homosexuality.




Here now nine months later, in the May 3 issue of U.S. News, an article asking if "...evangelicals are acting more and more like the rest of us."(p. 59),  it quotes the religion editor of Publisher's Weekly, Lynn Garrett, saying, "They've broken out of the Christian ghetto and into the mainstream."(referring to popular books such as Left Behind and Purpose Driven Life, and pop musicians such as Amy Grant, Switchfoot, MercyMe, and others)

So even the popular media is admittedly or freely referring to the Christian community in America now as the Christian "ghetto"...


Since when did the "Christian community" in America become a "ghetto"??

But there it is, being used that way in the popular media, now.

Very subtle.  And wonder if anyone even noticed.

I noticed in an earlier issue of U.S. News, several months ago, the editorial commented on the movie, High Noon, emphasizing how it ended, to champion the cause of standing up to tyranny.  If you go and watch the movie, it didn't end that way at all--quite differently actually--in fact, quite the opposite.  I wrote them a letter, but they didn't respond.  Apparently no one in their readership noticed the slip either.

The editorial used High Noon to champion the cause of standing up to tyranny.  But if you go and watch the closing scene of that movie, that isn't what happened at all.