Muslims and the cartoon

[Bronzesnake]

What are we to make of these Islamists fanatics?
I understand being upset when atheist liberals are constantly taking liberties with Jesus and or Mohammad, but these people have a severe propensity for violence at the tip of a hat.

Is it a mental issue? is it driven by fanatical leaders with agendas who whip these folks into a frenzy?
I've heard Muslims try to defend these actions by saying "well if it were done to Jews or Christians the reaction would be the same" no it wouldn't...Jesus has been viciously attacked in the media for many, many years. Christians get rightfully angry and participate in peaceful protests at the worst, but we never see this type of reaction. Why is that? What is the fundamental difference from Christian fundies and Islamists fundies? These people are raving lunatics, these folks are legitimizing the global fear of this religion.

We are blessed in Canada to have the most intelligent and reasonable Muslims on the planet. There was some peaceful protests and rightfully so, those cartoons were not acceptable. Finally I hear Muslims condemning the actions of the lunatics, it's been a long time coming.
I believe there is a real and legitimate fear of reprisals. That's why the moderates don't get to loud with any condemnation of the fundamentals. They know it could cost them their heads.

Truth be told, this type of violence is not new to Islam. Some of these people have not been honest, or they are blind to the facts. This has been going on from the very beginning of Islam. It's the reason why the crusades were initiated. I'm not trying to legitimize some of the horrible atrocities, which occurred during the crusades, but it wasn't all directed at Muslims. Much of the worst instances were actually directed toward the Jews.

This is the birth pains my friends. This stuff is going to launch us into the final world war. It's actually already begun. Iran will be attacked. The U.S. and allies are pushing for Iraq's troops to get trained as quickly as possible so the allied forces can be rallied. Iran is going to get hit, and that will start the chain reaction.

Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Egypt, Syria etc, have their battle plans down pat, and are ready and willing to take control...at least that's what they think is going to happen. I believe the U.S. and the most powerful allies will be forced to sit back and watch Israel get attacked over and over once all the evil nations join forces on the global landscape. I believe the weapons, which were in Iraq, are in position in Syria, Iran and Palestine just waiting to be used. The states will be made ineffective by electro magnetic pulse attack, and that will be it for them and the allies. The Bible clearly points out all the countries specifically and we aren’t in the picture, so a little logical conjecture gives us a good idea of what's coming.


Bronzesnake

[Shammu]

Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Egypt, Syria etc, have their battle plans down pat, and are ready and willing to take control.

Brother, I did some research, do you know. If the islamic forces in the mid-east banded together, they would have an army of almost 2 million soldiers. They lack, a bit more then 19,500 to make a 2 million army.

I was suprised to find that fact out, when I started adding up the forces of these countries.

I believe the U.S. and the most powerful allies will be forced to sit back and watch Israel get attacked over and over once all the evil nations join forces on the global landscape.

I don't think that will happen, as Bush will support Israel.

Also it is great to see you on the forum brother.
Bob

[nChrist]

Hello Bronzesnake,

Brother John, it's great to see you posting on the forum. YES, I do think we are at least looking at a preview of the end of this Age of Grace. There are various disagreements about what this would mean for Christians, but GOD will be with us regardless of the timing and sequence of events. It gives me great peace to simply know that I belong to JESUS regardless of what happens. This places a huge burden on my heart for those who are lost.

YES, I do believe that the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST will be Raptured Home with JESUS before the time of great wrath begins, SO, that could really be at any time. Tonight would be GREAT for the children of God, and that would make me very happy.

If Christians are to remain here much longer, I would simply pray that GOD softens the hearts of those who are lost. I would also pray that GOD gives us the strength, guidance, and courage to share the GOOD NEWS until the moment HE takes us home.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Galatians 2:16 NASB  nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

[2nd Timothy]

Hey BRNZ!  Glad to see you back on the board brother.


Interesting topic too!   

[Soldier4Christ]

It is great to see you again Brother.

Is it a mental issue?

I would say it is a heart issue.

is it driven by fanatical leaders with agendas who whip these folks into a frenzy?

Yes, these fanatics are falsifying the cartoons into much worse than they were and are using them for political reasons to bring their people up in arms against Israel and the U.S. Yes, at least three of those cartoons that are being displayed by certain Imams are fake ones that were never printed in any newspaper.

[Allinall]

DUDE!! So good to see you back up and typing!   

I tend to feel that it's far more than just mental or heart.  I believe it's prophetic:

The angel of the LORD found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the way to Shur.  And he said, "Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from and where are you going?" She said, "I am fleeing from my mistress Sarai."  The angel of the LORD said to her, "Return to your mistress and submit to her."  The angel of the LORD also said to her, "I will surely multiply your offspring so that they cannot be numbered for multitude."  And the angel of the LORD said to her,

  "Behold, you are pregnant
   and shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,
   because the LORD has listened to your affliction.
He shall be a wild donkey of a man,
   his hand against everyone
   and everyone's hand against him,
and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen."[\u]
Genesis 16:7-12

The decendants of Ishmael are historically the Arab peoples...Good to see you again bro!   

[Rhys]

I've heard Muslims try to defend these actions by saying "well if it were done to Jews or Christians the reaction would be the same" no it wouldn't...Jesus has been viciously attacked in the media for many, many years. Christians get rightfully angry and participate in peaceful protests at the worst, but we never see this type of reaction. Why is that?

I agree. Neither Christians or Jews have reacted in this way. I think part of the reason is that Muslims view Allah as a rather pitiful helpless God. He can't defend himself and so has to be defended by his followers' violent acts.

I have an acquaintance who was in both Iraq and Afganistan. He claimed all Muslim men were homosexuals as they were constantly propositioning him, in spite of the fact the Koran forbids it. He said they believe if they engage in sinful acts at night that Allah is either asleep or can't see them in the dark, so they are free to do whatever they want. A god of this sort isn't much of a god. Christianity doesn't have a limited God, so Christians don't feel a need to use violence to "defend God's honor" as He is perfectly able to do it Himself.

Brother, I did some research, do you know. If the islamic forces in the mid-east banded together, they would have an army of almost 2 million soldiers. They lack, a bit more then 19,500 to make a 2 million army.

Numbers don't mean much in modern warfare. A few nukes can wipe out such an army, as can a disease. Large numbers of uneducated, untrained people are more a liability than anything else. They have to be fed and provided for and the logistics in wartime can be overwhelming. Take out the mideast's few water sources and their army would be in real trouble, much less the civilian population.

Furthermore, they will never "band together" for long as the only thing they hate more than us is each other. Iran, for instance, is neither Arab nor Sunni and unlikely to band together with either. In fact, Iran's drive to get an atomic bomb may have a lot less to do with Israel than with it's surrounding Sunni neighbors.

[Shammu]

Numbers don't mean much in modern warfare. A few nukes can wipe out such an army, as can a disease. Large numbers of uneducated, untrained people are more a liability than anything else. They have to be fed and provided for and the logistics in wartime can be overwhelming. Take out the mideast's few water sources and their army would be in real trouble, much less the civilian population.

Furthermore, they will never "band together" for long as the only thing they hate more than us is each other. Iran, for instance, is neither Arab nor Sunni and unlikely to band together with either. In fact, Iran's drive to get an atomic bomb may have a lot less to do with Israel than with it's surrounding Sunni neighbors.

Hello Rhys yes they will band together. When they all attack Israel...............

Ezekiel 38:3-5  3 And say, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince (ruler) of Rosh, of Meshech, and of Tubal.  4 And I will turn you back and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you forth and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them handling swords--  5 Persia, Cush, and Put or Libya with them, all of them with shield and helmet,

Ezekiel 38:7-9 7 You [Gog] be prepared; yes, prepare yourself, you and all your companies that are assembled about you, and you be a guard and a commander for them. 8 After many days you shall be visited and mustered [for service]; in the latter years you shall go against the land that is restored from the ravages of the sword, where people are gathered out of many nations upon the mountains of Israel, which had been a continual waste; but its [people] are brought forth out of the nations and they shall dwell securely, all of them. 9 You shall ascend and come like a storm; you shall be like a cloud to cover the land, you and all your hosts and many people with you.

Ezekiel 39:6-7 6  I will send fire on Magog and upon those who dwell securely in the coastlands, and they shall know, understand, and realize that I am the Lord [the Sovereign Ruler, Who calls forth loyalty and obedient service].  7 And I will make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel, and I will not let them profane My holy name any more; and the nations shall know, understand, and realize that I am the Lord, the Holy One of Israel.
Ezekiel 39:11  11 And in that day, I will give to Gog a place for burial there in Israel, the valley of those who pass through on the east side in front of the [Dead] Sea [the highway between Syria, Petra, and Egypt], and it will delay and stop those who pass through. And there shall they [a]bury Gog and all his multitude, and they shall call it the Valley of Hamon-gog [multitude of Gog].
Daniel 11:13 For the king of the North shall raise a multitude greater than [he had] before, and after some years shall certainly return, coming with a great army and much substance and equipment.

It needs to be remembered that, it is Arabs are leading the attack. Though Russia is a willing member of the pack. Who shall be destroyed, when they attack Israel.  Gog and Magog, are destroyed.......

Russia, knows if nuclear bombs are used, America would respond in kind. Though if Iran used nuclear bombs, nothing would happen again, for one reason.

Ezekiel 39:2-5  2 And I will turn you about and will lead you on, and will cause you to come up from the uttermost parts of the north and will lead you against the mountains of Israel;  3 And I will smite your bow from your left hand and will cause your arrows to fall out of your right hand.  4 You shall fall [dead] upon the mountains of Israel, you and all your hosts and the peoples who are with you. I will give you to the ravenous birds of every sort and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.  5 You shall fall in the open field, for I have spoken [it], says the Lord God.

[Allinall]

Numbers don't mean much in modern warfare. A few nukes can wipe out such an army, as can a disease. Large numbers of uneducated, untrained people are more a liability than anything else. They have to be fed and provided for and the logistics in wartime can be overwhelming. Take out the mideast's few water sources and their army would be in real trouble, much less the civilian population.

You don't perchance live in the Indianapolis, IN area and play Axis and Allies, do you?    Cuz, ooooooh would I ever like to play you!     Seriously though, you can have the technology, but you need men on the ground to win a war.  You can win every battle with technology but it takes manpower to win the war and hold the ground.  Fundamentals of warfare my friend.  Fundamentals.  So, wanna play A&A?    (I'm just playin' around  )

[Bronzesnake]

First of all...Thank you my friends! It is good to be home again!

I do believe that all of North America will be absent from the final attack on Israel from Russia and the kingdoms of the East.
U.s. and allied power are the only thing keeping the attacks from happening now, or the past.

I believe the Rapture will severely deplete much of North America's populace, and the resulting confusion and chaotic atmosphere the Rapture will cause will leave us open to a final powerful and effective attack from our enemies.
It doesn't take much technological resource to launch an E.M.P. weapon. A small fishing vessel with a minimal crew is a very effective way of launching such an attack, and that will be it for the scattered allied forces - those left behind will be left vulnerable, and will be forced to stand by and watch as the remaining world powers take their revenge out on Israel.

This is why we read these nations pounding Israel in the pages of Revelation and other end times passages without any sign of any intervention from any allied forces. It's Israel against the kings of the North and the kings of the East.

Bronzesnake

[2nd Timothy]

You don't perchance live in the Indianapolis, IN area and play Axis and Allies, do you?    Cuz, ooooooh would I ever like to play you!     Seriously though, you can have the technology, but you need men on the ground to win a war.  You can win every battle with technology but it takes manpower to win the war and hold the ground.  Fundamentals of warfare my friend.  Fundamentals.  So, wanna play A&A?   (I'm just playin' around  )

Hey now!  No A&A (will have to look into that) but anyone like Chess?   Woohoo!  Thats my game of war....and perfect example of required force needed for winning...of course if you could launch a nuke from the starting position in chess the other side is wiped out (check mate?), which I think is the idea that Rhys is saying.   


Either way, I have always thought that world leaders should be required to play chess over world issues lol.    How simple and bloodless would that be? 


So where can I read about this A&A game?

[Soldier4Christ]

This particular war is difficult to fight because so far there are no specific nations to confront but factions within the many nations yet they have a network that comprises some of the most advanced technology. They also have a unity that is based on hatred. A very strong, driving force that unifies them in their objective, to destroy or subjugate all others that do not accept their beliefs. Even though it is true that the Muslims fight amongst themselves they do have that one objective in common that can and will unite them.

When this group gets really dangerous is when they start taking control of nations that have the facilities to become powerful. This is foretold in the Bible and this is seen taking place as we speak.

I used to play a lot of such board games as A&A. Risk, Risk Godstorm, Streets of Stalingrad, Eastern Front .......

Something that they all lack is a complete real world situations strategy where all situations are taken into account. Another thing that they lack which is even more important is they do not take into account that God said these things will come to pass. As we all know God does not lie and these things will come according to His will. Mans "war strategies" no matter how good they may be will not make a difference.

[sincereheart]

For anyone who hasn't seen the cartoons, they can be seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/animalmagazine/sets/72057594059300225/

But the following photos are what I wanted to share:




I found these here:
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004448.htm
And there are more. 

[Soldier4Christ]

Those are the cartoons that were actually posted in the newspaper. They are not the ones used by certain Imams to incite the violent uprisings.

Those cartoons and posters are exactly the sort of thing that will unite the muslims together in hatred.

[nChrist]

Bronzesnake Said:

I believe the Rapture will severely deplete much of North America's populace, and the resulting confusion and chaotic atmosphere the Rapture will cause will leave us open to a final powerful and effective attack from our enemies.

Hello Brother John,

I believe the same thing. I know that many Christians disagree, and that's fine. Daniel's prophecy was determined against Israel, not the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. It is my firm opinion that GOD didn't prepare HIS CHURCH for HIS WRATH. If we are wrong, GOD will be with us regardless.

I think that we are seeing something global develop, and it appears to be getting more clear by the day. There are plans right now to make the world bow down to a false god, the false god of Islam. If I am still here, I will refuse to the death - plain and simple. I've seen many conversations about what could be the mark of the beast during the Tribulation Period, and I'm beginning to think that it might have something to do with Islam. All kinds of technology already exists to fulfill the Biblical requirements of the "mark of the beast". So, the "how" already has many answers, it's just a matter of "when". I also firmly believe that the end of this age events will be fulfilled perfectly, according to Bible Prophecy and at GOD'S appointed time. I'm positive that no man or nation can delay or hasten GOD'S appointed time by a second.

Brothers and Sisters, there is a lot of confusion about what is meant by "the end of this age". According to the Holy Bible, we are living in the Age of Grace. The Gospel of the Grace of God is the focal point for this age. To put it more simply, JESUS, the Cross, God's Grace, God's Love, and God's Gift of JESUS CHRIST on the Cross is the focal point of this age. Almighty God has shown the ultimate Love, Grace, and patience in this age, but we should also know that our Great and All Powerful God is a GOD of Great WRATH. The end of this age will signal the beginning of a time when the Great Restrainer (Holy Spirit) will no longer hold in check the forces of evil. Great Wrath from the devil and from GOD will be poured out on the people of the earth. Brothers and Sisters, I think this time grows near. Regardless of the time, there should always be an urgency for Christians to share the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel of the Grace of God. There should always be a heavy burden on the hearts of Christians for lost family members, lost friends, and all lost people that we come accross. AND, it is always time for us to give thanks that we belong to JESUS.

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!

Love In Christ,
Tom

GOOD NEWS!

1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Rom 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!