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| | |-+  Abortion: Right or Wrong?
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Author Topic: Abortion: Right or Wrong?  (Read 17633 times)
DeLenn
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« on: February 09, 2004, 03:09:40 AM »

?

I hope I don't get in trouble for bringing up such a controversial topic, but what do you all think about abortion?  I used to be pro-choice, until a school assignment forced me to look into the matter more closely. When I did more research about what actually goes on in the clinics, I changed my mind. Now more than ever (in an election year) when there are many small lives involved, people need to see the truth, and to those who are mistakenly holding the belief that abortion is like having a tooth removed in simplicity and are thus pro-choice (like I was) or who are on the fence, or who are pro-life but not doing anything about it to look at some of the information. I have a site which is full of stories from current and former abortion doctors and clinic workers who reveal instances of shoddy medical conditions, the deception of women as well as the cruelty of abortion to babies. Its at http://clinicquotes.topcities.com
Below are a few of the quotes from the site.
-----------------------------------------------------------
From "Abortion at Work: Ideology and Practice in a Feminist Clinic" by Wendy Simonds. New Brunswick: Rutgers University Press, 1996 - Simonds is pro-choice, but she did include a chapter on how the clinic workers coped with processing abortion "tissue." i.e. the dead babies. Here are some quotes from the clinic workers:

"You're going from dealing with people to dealing with what most people here at the Center consider a real hurdle, to do sterile room, because you have to deal with the actual abortion tissue. And for some people, that's really hard.."

"It's just- I mean it looks like a baby. It looks like a baby. And especially if you get one that comes out, that's not piecemeal. And you know, I saw this one, and it had its fingers in its mouth...it makes me really sad that that had to happen, you know, but it doesn't change my mind. It's just hard. And it makes me just sort of stop and feel sad about it, the whole necessity of it. And also....it's very warm when it comes into the sterile room because it's been in the mother's stomach. It feels like flesh, you know..."

"You're looking between the woman's legs; you're seeing, you know, what the doctor's doing. And it's what a lot of people would call kind of, I guess, gruesome- that's not really the word because- it's identifiable. I mean, when he...takes the forceps and pulls out a foot, you can see the foot, and my reaction- because I feel so strongly that women who want to have a twenty week abortion should be able to have that- but I mean when I look and was just like, you know, my first reaction was, you know, I was pretty horrified."

"So by it looking like a baby, you're associating it with yourself because...you used to be a baby, you used to be a fetus."

"...when you're, you know, putting a fetus's feet in over its head in a baggie, there's just this brief moment of "This could have been me," which I fundamentally believe is okay. She should have the right to choose..."

"...it looks like a baby, That's what it looks like to me. You've never seen anything else that looks like that. The only other thing you've ever seen is a baby...You can see a face and hands, and ears and eyes and, you know...feet and toes...It bothered me real bad the first time..."

"I think the tough part was seeing actual pieces of fetus being removed..And in the beginning, yes, I remember looking, standing behind this woman's shoulder [as she performed an early second- trimester-abortion] and thinking, "I can't do this...There's something emotionally upsetting about this..Features are discernible; you can count five fingers on a hand and five toes on a foot. You know, all the organ systems are formed. You know, you can see ears as structures, and the nose and eyes as structures...I have gotten to the point now that because I've been doing this work five months, four months, I look at it a little differently. I don't see the same things that I did. And, honestly, when I sit down to do one of these now, I am watching to be sure that I'm getting everything that I need to get. It's 'Do I have two lower extremities? Do I have two upper extremities? Is there a spine? ...and the skull?...It does become a bit routine after a while. I don't fear it."

"I hate it when people put it together to look like a baby. I hate that...I don't want to look like it when its like that because it's like a broken doll, and that grosses me out."
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After an abortion, the doctor must inspect these remains to make sure that all the fetal parts and placenta have been removed. Any tissue left inside the uterus can start an infection. Dr. Bours squeezed the contents of the sock into a shallow dish and poked around with his finger. "You can see a teeny tiny hand' he said.

--abortion clinic worker quoted in "Is the Fetus Human?" and in Dudley Clendinen, "The Abortion Conflict: What it Does to One Doctor" New York Times Magazine Aug 11 1985 p 26
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In the book "Abortion: Debating the Issue" (New York:Enslow Publishing, Inc., 1995) Nancy Day quotes abortionist Dr. Ed Jones, who had worked at a Planned Parenthood Clinic for 4 years at the time of the interview, saying the following:

"This can burn you out very, very quickly...not so much by the physical labor as the emotional part of what's going on. When you do an ultraound, particularly if you have children, and you see a fetus there, kicking, moving, living, doing things that your own child does, bringing it's thumb to its mouth, and things like that- it's difficult. Then, after the procedure, sometimes we have to actually look at the specimen, and you see arms and legs and things like that torn off...It does take an emotional toll."
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"It is when I am holding a plastic uterus in one hand, a suction tube in the other, moving them together in imitation of the scrubbing to come, that woman ask the most secret question. I am speaking in a matter-of-fact voice about 'the tissue' and 'the contents' when the woman suddenly catches my eye and says 'How big is the baby now?' These words suggest a quiet need for definition of the boundaries being drawn. It isn't so odd, after all, that she feels relief when I describe the growing buds bulbous shape, its miniature nature. Again, I gauge, and sometimes lie a little, weaseling around its infantile features until its clinging power slackens."
--abortion worker Sallie Tisdale "We Do Abortions Here" Oct 1987 Harpers Magazine p 68
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"Counselors are just to give the appearance of help. . . [They] think of themselves as company for the women."
--abortion counselor

"I have never yet counseled anybody to have the baby. I'm also doing women's counseling on campus at Albany State, and there I am expected to present alternatives. Whereas at the abortion clinic you aren't really expected to."
--abortion counselor

Rachel Weeping and Other Essays About Abortion. James Tunstead Burtchaell, editor. New York: Universal Press, 1982
--------------------------------------------------------------------------"Vital signs should be observed regularly, and a Doppler [for listening to the fetal heartbeat] inaudible to the patient should be used at intervals to determine the presence or absence of fetal heart tones.. This [informed consent] is a controversial area, but most professionals in the field feel that it is not advisable for patients to view the products of conception, to be told the sex of the fetus, or to be informed of a multiple pregnancy."
--Abortionist Warren Hern in "Abortion Practice" J.B. Lippincott Company, 1984 pgs 145 and 304
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"Sonography in connection with induced abortion may have psychological hazards. Seeing a blown-up, moving image of the embryo she is carrying can be distressing to a woman who is about to undergo an abortion, Dr. Sally Faith Dorfman noted. She stressed that the screen should be turned away from the patient."
--"Obstetrics and Gynecology News" editorial February 15-28, 1986
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"I was trained by a professional marketing director in how to sell abortions over the telephone. He took every one of our receptionists, nurses, and anyone else who would deal with people over the phone through an extensive training period. The object was, when the girl called, to hook the sale so that she wouldn't get an abortion somewhere else, or adopt out her baby, or change her mind. We were doing it for the money."
--Nina Whitten, chief secretary at a Dallas abortion clinic under Dr. Curtis Boyd
-----------------------------------------------------------


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The Crusader
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2004, 05:45:38 AM »

I am 100% against abortion. Thanks for the good message.

Your friend and brother

The Crusader

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Psalm 119
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2004, 09:46:05 AM »

DeLenn,

Abortion is murder. Period!

For a number of years I spent countless hours in front of abortion clinics, protesting and counselling women. I can tell you first hand ,that most that work in the clinics are very hard hearted. Most are in denial that they are really killing babies. Many have had abortions themselves. The anti-life folks will tell you it's all about the women. But in honesty it's really about the money. If abortion was so great for women, and they were really that sympathetic, why don't they donate their services?

A number of years ago, there were some women who went undercover into an abortion clinic. The clinic (which is now closed) was reusing the urinal speciman cups. A veternarian clinic is more regulated than a clinic.

Roe v Wade was all based on a lie. "Roe" who's name is  Norma McCorvey was never raped, but rather, she bore a girl child who was adopted. Norma is now fighting to reverse Roe v Wade.

A great resource of information is Life Dynamics. They document the horrrific practices of the abortion industry.

http://www.ldi.org/

Psalm 119
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The Crusader
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2004, 09:51:38 AM »

DeLenn,

Abortion is murder. Period!

For a number of years I spent countless hours in front of abortion clinics, protesting and counselling women. I can tell you first hand ,that most that work in the clinics are very hard hearted. Most are in denial that they are really killing babies. Many have had abortions themselves. The anti-life folks will tell you it's all about the women. But in honesty it's really about the money. If abortion was so great for women, and they were really that sympathetic, why don't they donate their services?

A number of years ago, there were some women who went undercover into an abortion clinic. The clinic (which is now closed) was reusing the urinal speciman cups. A veternarian clinic is more regulated than a clinic.

Roe v Wade was all based on a lie. "Roe" who's name is  Norma McCorvey was never raped, but rather, she bore a girl child who was adopted. Norma is now fighting to reverse Roe v Wade.

A great resource of information is Life Dynamics. They document the horrrific practices of the abortion industry.

http://www.ldi.org/

Psalm 119

Amen, thanks for the link Psalm 119

Your friend and brother

The Crusader

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Psalm 119
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2004, 10:01:44 AM »

A picture is worth a thousand words:

http://www.holylamb.com/abortion1.htm

Psalm 119
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sincereheart
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2004, 10:59:29 AM »

Quote
A picture is worth a thousand words:
http://www.holylamb.com/abortion1.htm
Psalm 119

Thank you for this link!  Smiley
From this site:

If you're wondering where abortions are being done in YOUR state..... Angry

("Abortions are available in all fifty states. Please choose a state below to find an abortion provider near you.")

http://www.abortion-clinic.com/


One of those thousand words (no - million words) pictures (note the GARABGE/TRASH can!):



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Reba
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2004, 11:12:58 AM »

Abortion is murder for hire. The child is killed and the spirit of the mother is also killed.

I have lost at least 2 grandchhildren to the butchers. Their would be mother is lost someplace in the drug world.

Many young girls are victums of the lies  ... One i knew personaly had night mares for years of babies crying... her dad pressured her into an abortion so the baby could nto ruin her life? Babies dont ruin lives they change lives. Adoption a wonderful option.
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NateyCakes
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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2004, 11:29:53 AM »

Absolutely right yal...MURDER. No way around it. Doesnt the Lord say you shall not take a life? NO One should play GOD!

Sincereheart, believe it or not, when I saw your picture I started to cry! How sad!!!! Cry

I worked in a Hosp. I used to see the gals come in & seek a Dr who would perform abortions...Its sickening Sad.....All the millions of murdered babies. I wouldnt want that on my hand when I see my Savior!!

*To those ppl who say it isnt a life, just and FYI....There is a heartbeat at 4 weeks OLD! ~Heartbeat~, Id say that is Life.  Cry
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2004, 11:54:09 AM »

This was discussed in another thread, though with less detail:
http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=2436;start=msg37062#msg37062
(If the link doesn't work, its "Do you wonder", under You Name It)

More children were aborted on September 11, than people who died in terrorist attacks.

America is a puzzling country; we pay billions of dollars to keep our children safe, to educate them, to give them medication and counseling and all we are able to give. The recent birth of Michigan's first sextuplets is costing the family nearly a million dollars already (mostly hospital bills), despite generous gifts of baby food etc. by local businesses.
Another side of America is destroying the same precious things that other people risk their lives to protect. I guess I don't understand.  Cry
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Brandie
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2004, 12:04:07 PM »

Ok, a little story to tell...

My mother got pregnant with me at 14.  She was 15 when I was born.  This was 1977 and abortion was legal, however, it was NEVER an option.  Her parents said she could (a) have the baby (me) and give it up for adoption, (b) have the baby and give it to them to raise as their own, or (c) have the baby and raise it herself.  Well, she chose option "c" and married my biological father and with the help of those strong Christian parents raised me as best they could.  Was it a sin for her to lay with a man and get pregnant in the first place?  YES!  Was she a Christian?  YES!  Has she been forgiven?  YES!  But you know what...EVEN FORGIVEN SIN HAS ITS CONSEQUENCES.  You dance, you pay the fiddler.

Abortion is 100% wrong...the Bible says "choose life"!  We are "fearfully, and wonderfully made", "knit together in the secret place".

Christians and pro-lifers need to take a stand, take action wherever and whenever you can.  There is a movement to get these great new ultrasound machines in pro-life clinics, if your church takes up a special donation for that, think about sending them your tithe.  

We need to remind these abortion-minded women that even if their child is born retarted, handicapped, hiv-positive, no legs, no arms, deformed, blind, deaf, drug-addicted...there is a family that will rejoice in having those children.  Adoption should be the alternative to abortion (aka murder in the 1st).

Don't kill the innocent!  If my mother had done what was legal, I wouldn't be here.
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2004, 09:20:47 PM »

Personally I think it is the individual's choice. Whether I'd have one....I don't know, the issue has never come up and I doubt is likely to.

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And God will say:
Depart from me I never knew you!
I never knew you!
Never.
 

Man disavows, and Deity disowns me:
Hell might afford my miseries a shelter;
Therefore Hell keeps her ever-hungry mouths all
Bolted against me.
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Reba
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2004, 09:26:28 PM »

Broken,

 Why ever is it anothers choice to kill an innocent ?  When does the childs right to life begin?  
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2004, 09:28:18 PM »

When they are born, Reba.

A person's sins are between them and God.
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And God will say:
Depart from me I never knew you!
I never knew you!
Never.
 

Man disavows, and Deity disowns me:
Hell might afford my miseries a shelter;
Therefore Hell keeps her ever-hungry mouths all
Bolted against me.
-Cowper
Reba
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2004, 09:30:57 PM »

The unborn child has no right to life? Interesting why do you believe so?
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2004, 09:34:16 PM »

No independent life.
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And God will say:
Depart from me I never knew you!
I never knew you!
Never.
 

Man disavows, and Deity disowns me:
Hell might afford my miseries a shelter;
Therefore Hell keeps her ever-hungry mouths all
Bolted against me.
-Cowper
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