PART 2
You did not respond the Romans 8:1,2 and John 5:24- believers are NEVER judged as to CONDEMNATION. The Believer is judged at the JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST and you should not that it relates to rewards only. If you do not know that, I will instruct but you will probably reject even though it is as straightforward as it could be.
I believe I did respond to the two verses Roman 8:1-2 and John 5:24 at least at a level comparable to the interpretation you offered for the verse you yourself referenced. But I will be glad to expand on my explanation. In the last post I stated - Excuse me but you are definitely wrong on this of course the believers are judged. - and then I used the example of the sheep and goats which occurs at the judgement day and this is more than just for rewards this is about entering the kingdom or not getting to go to heaven.
If you want more on those two verses I can easily show that they teach the same thing as the parable of the sheep and goats.
Rom 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
This says there is no condemnation (not that there is no judgment) of them which are in Christ AND who walk not after the flesh (bad works) but after the spirit (good works of love). So we see that out walking in the spirit is not just related to rewards but as a requirement to a proper acceptance of the gift and thus avoiding condemnation. We are judged but there is no condemnation of us because we are in Christ and walk after the spirit.
Of course we have to ask how we are in Christ and that is best seen in John 15:10
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Your reference to John 5:24 doesn't say what you think it does either.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
It says there is no condemnation (again not that there is no judgment). Not amazingly we also see here, that not only do we have to believe, but we have to hear (and this is not just letting it go in one ear and out the other). Hearing is an understanding, acceptance and internalizing of the message of the Gospel such that it becomes part of our life - this is works. If we do not do hear His message we can't truly have faith in Him.
The Church could not possibly be judged according to how they treated Christ's brethren, the JEWS during the Tribulation.
Why is that - because you follow some dispensational approach of a rapture and a literal millenial reign of Christ on earth?
I will agree thaT WE CAN FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES OF VISITING PEOPLE IN JAIL AS ONE EXAMPLE, BUT WE COULD NEVER BE JUDGED FOR CONFDEMNATION BY THAT STANDARD. That makes no sense at all much less having any scriptural basis.
If we do not do such acts of love we would have a dead faith and thus not have properly accepted the gift and we are judged for condemnation by that.
To say I close my ears is also ABSURD! I respond with more scripture and spend more time that either of you preparing a response as indicated by your total lack of anything but OPINIONS!
I did not say that you closed your ears, but you do tend to ignore the message to all of us of verses that you feel you can apply only to certain other groups. Your claim at responding with more scripture and spending more time is nonsense as you seldom if ever do any more than quote scripture without providing an interpretation of what you claim it means. It doesn't take much time to do that. It does have the advantage of avoiding making your own opinions/doctrine have to face an analysis that would show them to be self contradictory or in contradiction with other scripture. Secondly, since I supplied 46 verse references in one single post, plus dozens of other in other posts, and you have only promised you could provide 146 verses and then never delivered on that offer - I don't think you have any room to complain.
Come back when you have something meaningfyl to offer and we can have a DISCUSSSION. You even have that wrong by calling it a DEBATE. It is NOT debate, but DISCUSSION and it should be with something other than personal opinions.
Don't try to pull semantic gymnastics with me, especially if you are not going to bother to look up the terms. Webster defines a
discussion as a consideration of a question in an open and informal
debate. It defines a
debate as a regulated
discussion of a proposition between two matched sides. So we see that a discussion and a debate differ only very slightly. Perhaps you are right though, as you don't seem to regulate your response to any format other than simple verse slinging and you seem to be over matched.
Let me know, and I would say brothers, but I am not so sure. Are either of you BORN AGAIN by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ alone?
I am born again but it is not as simplistic as you make it out to be. A proper understanding of the salvation process depends on what you think the finished work of Christ accomplished. It is clear that even you cannot think that it means our salvation was completed at the cross, because then we wouldn't even have to have faith, because that comes later. If our personal salvation was finished at the cross then we would all be saved, every last one of us and there would be no need for the decision of faith that occurs in some instances (like mine) over a thousand years later.
So what did Christ mean when He said, on the cross that, "it is finished"? He meant that His role as sacrificial lamb was finished - that the offering of the gift was finished. Our acceptance of the gift is not finished. That takes us back to our discussion/debate - how did Christ instruct us to accept the gift. You say by faith alone - even though you cannot provide a single verse that says that. I say by a living faith - one that cannot be separated from works of love fulfilling the spirit of the law and I provide verse after verse, that support it, that you refuse to even address. I even provide 46 verses that clearly lay out other things we are instructed to do to properly accept the gift and you ignore them, not even bothering to give a reason for each as to why you feel you can ignore them. Instead relying on a blanket approach that if they don’t match your preconceived notion of salvation they must have been written for someone else in another dispensation.
END OF PART 2
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