TONGUES - A SIGN

[LittlePilgrim]

You know, some of you need to get better at paragraphing if you want the whole debate read. LOL  

Anyways, I'm not sure what all has been said here, but the issue of tongues came up on another forum some time back. I'll post now what I said then.

Please, don't jump on me, since these aren't addressed to anyone here, and I'd be glad of any correction. This was an argument-specific post.

. I think praying/speaking in tongues is more of a time-specific gift than many of the others mentioned. Condsider that when the church age first began, speaking more than one language was a rare thing at best. Now though, we have not only a system for teaching known languages, but also for learning unknown languages. In the early days of the church, this was virtually unheard of. Now, don't get me wrong. I believe it still happens, but not nearly as often as it did originally. Other gifts, such as teaching, and being a servant or helper have become far more prevalent.
I disagree with the theory that praying in tongues is good because Satan can't understand it for a couple reasons.
A) Because if you believe Satan can block your prayers merely by throwing temptations at you, then I think you overestimate his power, and underestimate the powers of both God and prayer.
B) Praying in tongues for self-edification is completely unnecessary. We are told in scripture that the Holy Spirit intercedes on our behalf with cries and groanings that human words cannot express. In other words, no matter how we pray, the prayer reaches God and sounds perfect.

Prophecying, I think, is also a gift that is rarely used now, and is more time-specific than the other gifts mentioned. Remember that when the church first began, they did not have the Holy Scriptures as we have them now. The Bible is the Word of God. That word no longer needs to be spoken... At least as often... From human mouths.

My point? Even if someone cannot speak in tongues or prophesy, it does not mean a lack of faith. It may simply be that God has instilled other gifts within them for His own purposes. I feel that I am called to be a servant. That is my gift. That is God's purpose for me. Perhaps He has chosen you to speak or pray in or translate tongues. And if so, that is indeed wonderous, but the other gifts mentioned should not be discounted, merely because they are not as visible.

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God." (NIV) This, in my mind, is more of a clear translation, because it not only refers to spiritual gifts, but also to spiritual teaching, such as the Gospel. But it does not speak at all of speaking in tongues. In fact, looking at the context, it is actually speaking of spiritual teaching.

Your second reference is 1 Corinthians 14:2, which reads:

"For anyone who speaks in tongues does not speak to man, but to God." But nowhere does it say that Satan isn't able to understand, nor does it say that the prayers not spoken in tongues go anywhere but directly to God. Read the whole of the passage.

NOTE: Words in italics are being emphasized by me, not by the apostle Paul.

I Corinthians 14:1-25

Quote:
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"Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in tongues does not speak to man, but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his Spirit. But everyone who prophecies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement, and comfort. He who speaks with the tongue edifies himself, but he who prophecies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets so that the church may be edified.
Now brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the fulte or harp, how will anyone know what the tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet not one of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to him, and he is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are so eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.
For this reason, anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say 'amen' to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church, I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. In the law it is written:
"Through men of strange tongues
And through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people
But even then they will not listen to me." says the Lord.
Tongues then are a sign not for believers, but for unbelievers; Prophecy however is for believers, not for unbelievers. So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if an unbeliever comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner, and will be judged by all, and the secrets of his heart laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"
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The point of this passage, in essence, is that it is more important to edify the church and fellow believers than it is to edify yourself. It is more important to instruct and teach unbelievers than it is yourself. So yes, speaking in tongues is a great gift, and blessed are those that have it. But if you are to pray in tongues, pray also for understanding, that if there are any near you that do not understand, they too may be edified, whether they be unbeliever, or fellow believer. That is what is really important afterall, to build one another up in wisdom and understanding of God and his word.

[GKB]

littlepilgrim,

i have read and pretty much agree with what you have said. god bless you and all others on the site.

the bible says to cry loud and spare not....i have not really been allowed to do that here, so my comments are limited.

[Reba]

littlepilgrim,

i have read and pretty much agree with what you have said. god bless you and all others on the site.

the bible says to cry loud and spare not....i have not really been allowed to do that here, so my comments are limited.

What are the comments you would like to share?

[Reba]

GKB

The trinity can been shown via scripture as you well know.

Prove to this old penticostal lady's satisfaction that the same can be done with the  phrase 'heavenly language.'

[nChrist]

littlepilgrim,

i have read and pretty much agree with what you have said. god bless you and all others on the site.

the bible says to cry loud and spare not....i have not really been allowed to do that here, so my comments are limited.

What are the comments you would like to share?

Hello Sister Reba,

He wanted to share some name-calling of other folks on the forum who disagree with him. That was a bad idea that just didn't work out for him because of forum rules, and he came within an inch of being banned after dealing with most of the moderators. So, if he shares the comments he wanted to make, he will be banned.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 17:11 NASB  "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.

[GKB]

SISTER REBA,

i assure you that my intelligence is not limited to name calling and that is not what my comments shared, my comments made reference to some biblical similarities betweeen one group of people and a more modern group. it was for the purpose of expressing a side of things that some may not have been familiar with. i am still interested in sharing some scriptures with you in the name of jesus....i am not going to debate, but i will share.

i do have some scriptures which i have mentioned previously, i am a little afraid of giving what i know to be true for fear of being banned....however i do not think that i will be frequenting this site as regularly as i have been, so i guess you may address concerns to me, for i am happy to share.

i am afraid that when we become laced with one way of thinking, we tend to box god into a tradition that hes not limited to....well god bless you and by by now!

[GKB]

I PRAY FOR A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO FOR ALL OF YOU! GOD BLESS YOU IN THE SPIRIT OF LOVE!

[Soldier4Christ]

Salvation is based on faith in Jesus Christ. When a person teaches a doctrine, makes comments about scripture that question anothers Salvation in matters that do not pertain to the teaching of the Gospel, then this person is attempting to put a stumbling block in front of their brothers or sisters path, attempting to make them doubt their Salvation instead of trying to help them increase their faith.

I am not talking just about the teaching of tongues that some people do. This is involved with other topics also such as when the rapture will take place. The problem here is when people move these subjects into the teaching of Salvation, making it a part of it or making it a requirement of Salvation. Then comparing a specific person to the Pharisees because they don't accept those teachings. The Pharisees rejected Jesus Christ as the Messiah. It had nothing to do with these other teachings.

The outward display of these gifts is not necessarily a proof that a person is saved. It is the inward proof that makes the difference. The Pharisees gave many outward proofs but they forgot to clean the inside of the cup and concentrated specifically on the outward appearance of things only.




Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?



2Co 11:12  But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
2Co 11:13  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.



 
1Jo 3:20  For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
1Jo 3:21  Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

[Reba]

GKB

Your responce is just about what i  expected.

Mr. Bepster do not say anything to your intelligence, So i will cry loud and spare not....

You came across very  pious as if you are so much more sipritual then the folks here. These guys here dont  treat me in any foul way yet most know i can speak in tongues at will.

You assume thoughts of others and are incorrect in your assumptions. the post you have left  say to me "GOD only works and uses those i say He can and in the way i say HE can".  Crying loud, folks like you have left a bad name on the penticostals for years. Like a child given a Christmas gift who abuses it wiht so much bragging the giver wishes it had never been given
 Open your spiritual eyes and see the Open yoru ears and hear the crying loud turn and feel the spare not and look at yourself.  This is all said in love......

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I'll simply say that if we truly belong to JESUS, that should be more than enough to enjoy each other's company. Our differences will be gone when we spend Eternity together with JESUS. In the meantime, fellowship with other Brothers and Sisters in Christ is more than just possible, it's what GOD wants and expects. If someone bars fellowship with another Christian because of a difference, that isn't GOD working.

Philippians 1:27-28 NASB  Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; in no way alarmed by your opponents--which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and that too, from God.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 9:8 NASB  And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;

[LittlePilgrim]

*nod* Amen, BEP. We should be grateful for the gifts were are given, but always those gifts should be used to build up others and to bring glory to Christ. The debate over gifts is kind of pointless, because it doesn't matter WHAT gift we are given. God works as He wills, and He gives us each gifts through His Spirit that we can use to serve Him.

SOLI DEO GLORIA! TO GOD ALONE BE THE GLORY!

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen LittlePilgrim and Brother Tom,

Fellowship with other Christians is an important part of our growing in our Lord and Saviour. As we are taught we cannot all be a hand, a foot, or leg .....  We are all a part of the Body of Christ and each of us are given different gifts according to that which is in His purpose.

[Reba]

*nod* Amen, BEP. We should be grateful for the gifts were are given, but always those gifts should be used to build up others and to bring glory to Christ. The debate over gifts is kind of pointless, because it doesn't matter WHAT gift we are given. God works as He wills, and He gives us each gifts through His Spirit that we can use to serve Him.

SOLI DEO GLORIA! TO GOD ALONE BE THE GLORY!

 After throwing my little fit  i am a bit embaressed to add my Amen

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

By my clock, it's 6 minutes to midnight. YES, I know that it's already 2006 in many places.

The point is that we have a brand new year to start. I have a very simple hope and prayer for all of you and myself:  That we all grow stronger in JESUS!  Strength in JESUS really speaks of many things that are critical for Christians:  Love, Peace, Charity, time with GOD'S WORD, and everything that REALLY makes a Christian happy in this short life.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

IN JESUS CHRIST!!

My clock now says 1 minute after midnight, so may GOD richly bless you and your families in 2006.

Love in Christ,
Tom

John 17:21-23 NASB  that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

[GKB]

WELL ITS A NEW YEAR, AND LETS MOVE ON TO NEW THINGS. sorry that i'm not apart of the "team". i will continue to CRY LOUD AND SPARE NOT. TO GOD BE THE GLORY FOR THE THINGS HE HAS DONE....I WILL NOT CAST ANOTHER PEARL ON THIS SUBJECT...SO NOW AGREE AMONGST YOURSELVES THAT YOU ALL ARE RIGHT AND ENJOY. growth is caused by going past the norm...MAY GOD BLESS ALL OF  YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS!