Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God.

[Soldier4Christ]

As you know I wasn't here during the Catholic/Protestant "war" that took place here. I understand though how people of both sides can be in regards to that.

I must agree with Joshua's statement on revelations. Yet at the same time we must be careful of these revelations. If a revelation is blatantly opposite of the teaching of the Bible then it is a false revelation and should  be completely avoided. If the revelation is supported by the Bible then we can say it is a true revelation.

What constitutes the Bible supporting a revelation? I would say that it would take more than just a verse or portion of a verse. In the example that I gave in 1 John 5:7 of the Trinity. The entire Bible supports this not just a lone verse. Therefore a revelation on the Tinity in this matter is a true Biblical revelation.




 

[Jemidon2004]

I was here during the last portion of that catholic/protestant war. You'll notice that my statements about those revelations...keep in mind that what I am speaking of are those revealed to us by GOD. If it goes against the general tenor of scripture concerning an issue it should be discounted. For example...grace. The general tenor of Scripture is that we are saved by Grace. Even some 'christians' deny this. Also, the difference between now trying to discuss a point of doctrine and then discussing a point of doctrine is that in i'm not referring to just one place in Scripture where that truth is displayed. I will not stand on just one scripture when concerning a biblical doctrine. Those who have read my previous posts in the past, know that i will seek out and study to make sure what I say is biblically sound. i to have thought about the past catholic/protestant war that raged on this site. However, this is a completely different set of circumstances and personally, i am responding and challenging at the same time, to study it for yourselves. That's the one thing that lacks most often is people just take what is said at face value instead of doing the research themselves. Nothing against anyone on this forum, it's just something that I am trying to guard against. Again, I will hold to the statement "Scripture supports itself." Just a few thoughts.

Coram Deo
Joshua

[Jemidon2004]

Very good synopsis of general revelation of Scripture Rogers...Could not have said it any better.

Joshua

[cris]

As you know I wasn't here during the Catholic/Protestant "war" that took place here. I understand though how people of both sides can be in regards to that.

I must agree with Joshua's statement on revelations. Yet at the same time we must be careful of these revelations. If a revelation is blatantly opposite of the teaching of the Bible then it is a false revelation and should  be completely avoided. If the revelation is supported by the Bible then we can say it is a true revelation.

What constitutes the Bible supporting a revelation? I would say that it would take more than just a verse or portion of a verse. In the example that I gave in 1 John 5:7 of the Trinity. The entire Bible supports this not just a lone verse. Therefore a revelation on the Tinity in this matter is a true Biblical revelation.




 

Whoops, I should have used the plural, as in passages, not singular, as in passage, because that's what I meant.

Yes, I have to agree, we must be careful, but no one has ALL the answers.  Some people think they do though.  For example, take the Calvinist theology.  Each one of those people think they are one of the elect. They believe they're going to heaven and we're going to hell.  They get their information from the bible, PR.  They don't believe they're twisting the Truth.  They believe that their interpretation is the correct one.  We think they're wrong.  This is why there are so many debates on scripture interpretation.  It means different things to different people.  I don't think it should be this way, but it is.  IMO, we have the Reformation to thank for all these different denominations (opinions of interpretation).  Somebody is very definitely wrong.

 

[Jemidon2004]

BTW I'm calvinist...

Joshua

[cris]

BTW I'm calvinist...

Joshua

Okay, PR.....................this one's for you!

[Soldier4Christ]

One of the key words that you used is the primary problem here  ....  "denomination". Denomination = a religious organization uniting local congregations in a single legal and administrative body. In doing so people set up doctrines (not necessarily Biblical). People then believe these doctrines closing their eyes and minds to what the Bible is telling us. This is especially so of the Calvanites. They read certain verses (note plural form) yet ignore many others. When studying the Bible we must look at the Bible in whole, everything that it says, not just those that we wish to support our individual doctrines.

This is how mens doctrines have taken over the Doctrines of Jesus Christ. You are right when you say that no one knows everything the Bible has to tell us. 50 years of studying the Bible and I am still learning and will most likely do so if I were to live to 100 years or more.

However we know nothing at all if we leave all the studying for someone else to do and simply listen to what they have to say. The verse "2Ti 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" was placed in the Bible for a valid reason. This is not to say that we should not listen to others such as Pastors and teachers. It is to say that we should as Joshua said above to "seek out and study to make sure [it]  ..... is biblically sound".



To many denominations follow a man and not Jesus Christ.

[cris]

One of the key words that you used is the primary problem here  ....  "denomination". Denomination = a religious organization uniting local congregations in a single legal and administrative body. In doing so people set up doctrines (not necessarily Biblical). People then believe these doctrines closing their eyes and minds to what the Bible is telling us. This is especially so of the Calvanites. They read certain verses (note plural form) yet ignore many others. When studying the Bible we must look at the Bible in whole, everything that it says, not just those that we wish to support our individual doctrines.

This is how mens doctrines have taken over the Doctrines of Jesus Christ. You are right when you say that no one knows everything the Bible has to tell us. 50 years of studying the Bible and I am still learning and will most likely do so if I were to live to 100 years or more.

However we know nothing at all if we leave all the studying for someone else to do and simply listen to what they have to say. The verse "2Ti 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" was placed in the Bible for a valid reason. This is not to say that we should not listen to others such as Pastors and teachers. It is to say that we should as Joshua said above to "seek out and study to make sure [it]  ..... is biblically sound".



To many denominations follow a man and not Jesus Christ.

PR said:  It is to say that we should as Joshua said above to "seek out and study to make sure [it]  ..... is biblically sound."


Apparently Joshua is doing just that.  He believes Calvinism is biblically sound.  He's proved it to himself with scripture.

 

[Soldier4Christ]

 

I just saw his post saying that. Unlike most Calvinists though he is searching out the scriptures for himself. Most Calvinists that I have known rely completely on the writings of John Calvin  and ignore portions of the Bible.

[Soldier4Christ]

My apologies Joshua. I meant nothing personal by my comments about Calvinists. I was referring to certain ones that I have met and, unlike you, the majority of them were not very Christ-like themselves.

[cris]

I just saw his post saying that. Unlike most Calvinists though he is searching out the scriptures for himself. Most Calvinists that I have known rely completely on the writings of John Calvin  and ignore portions of the Bible.

Well, that HAS NOT been my experience.  He isn't unlike most Calvinist's I've known. The ones that I had experience with used scripture to prove their interpretation was correct. They searched it out, PR.  I can't remember one that I knew, ever referring to Calvin's writings. They used the bible exclusively.  Talk about the doctrine of men..............!








 

[Soldier4Christ]

I just saw his post saying that. Unlike most Calvinists though he is searching out the scriptures for himself. Most Calvinists that I have known rely completely on the writings of John Calvin and ignore portions of the Bible.

Well, that HAS NOT been my experience.  He isn't unlike most Calvinist's I've known. The ones that I had experience with used scripture to prove their interpretation was correct. They searched it out, PR.  I can't remember one that I knew, ever referring to Calvin's writings. They used the bible exclusively.  Talk about the doctrine of men..............!
 

I am going by those that I have met and perhaps they were the exception to the norm (whatever the "norm" is). I don't mean to single out Calvinists here and pick on them alone. This same thing could be said about various other individuals of various different denominations also. I myself am non-denominational for the reasons I gave above. The very word denomination tends to split Christians up instead of unifying and all to often the type of individual I was referring to will say "if you don't belong to my denomination you aren't saved and are going to hell" all based on the teachings of a man.

[Jemidon2004]

Pastor Roger:
LoL...is all I can say. I am a Calvinist and am not afraid to state as such. However, first and foremost, I am saved by Grace through faith in JESUS Christ. It is His blood whereby which I am justified and sanctified. There is no dispute over that. While I hold to the doctrines of Grace, that has little bearing in that I trust my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as my intimate bridegroom. I seek truth according to Scripture. I tend to agree with Calvin's writings, but that's not to say that I am closeminded to what anyone else has to say on the matter. No disrespect taken Pastor Roger. You know me by my statements and you know that when it comes to Theological discussion (and I use discussion because discussing is what I always do) I will present my stance, and back it up with Scripture that support each other, as well as the truth given from the study of the Scriptures themselves. I know you don't mean to single out Calvinists, however, you as well as I do know that not all are the same. That individual you referred to is known as a hyper calvinist which is completely different than traditional calvinism and it often leads to fatalism. Hence why he makes that statement that you have just produces. I follow the teachings of God first and foremost, and I will give heed to the teachings of man ONLY after I have searched the Scriptures. You might call me a reformed calvinist or a supporter of reformed theology. However you wish, I am the same person I was yesterday, and will be tomorrow. My spiritual gifts have not diminished nor has my calling been affected. So no worries brother. I knew I would get a bit of a response, however, I had to speak up because I won't sit by while other calvinists, who are just as dedicated to the Word, if not more than I, are labeled as these harsh people who think they know who is and who is not going to hell. You see where i'm coming from... So no worries brother, no dis-respect recieved.

Now Cris:

I noticed you said that I am not unlike the Calvinists you have known. Again, I am first and foremost a Beliver in the Lord Jesus Christ, secondly, I am a disciple, thirdly I am a calvinist, and 4thly i am a southern baptist. Now does that make me any less of a believer than anyone else on this forum? I have to ask the question because it seems that many have a major grievance against Calvinists that is often unfounded. You'll find that there are more hyper-calvinists than there are biblical calvinists. And I use the term biblical to distinguish us from the hyper calvinists that believe in fatalism. If I were a hyper calvinist, I could care less about missions, or evangelism, however, the point is, I do care for missions, and evangelism because it is not for me to decide who goes to heaven or hell, it is up to God. My job is to spread the Gospel, and TEACH them to go out and be witnesses. If i fail to do my job, I shall reap the consequences. I am a calvinist because I tend to agree with Calvin's writings, but I do not base my theology solely on his writings, that would be fatalistic in and of itself. This is why I hate using the word calvinist because it often provokes emotions that are not charitable to those who assume the position of a calvinist. I'm sure as you read my posts, I go to the Scriptures above any thing a man has to say. I only include essays and quotes because i believe they will convey better what I am trying to say than I can. I do not mean this as a rebuttal, but to maybe clear up a few issues that may be running through your mind. I'm sorry if you have had bad experiences with a "calvinist" or someone who has assumed that position and been reckless with their words. Re-read what it says at the bottom of my posts: "Language is a powerful tool. It can build up and destroy. How will you choose to use this tool?" I hope that I can be a blessing to you in the future and that God will continue to guide you in your day to day walk with Him. Consider no harsh feelings from me to you as well.

I think this will about wrap up my reflections on these previous posts. God Bles

Coram Deo,
Joshua

[cris]

I must ask you Joshua, do you believe some people were created to go to hell, that they have no chance for redemption?

[Soldier4Christ]

Pastor Roger:
LoL...is all I can say. I am a Calvinist and am not afraid to state as such. However, first and foremost, I am saved by Grace through faith in JESUS Christ. It is His blood whereby which I am justified and sanctified. There is no dispute over that. While I hold to the doctrines of Grace, that has little bearing in that I trust my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as my intimate bridegroom. I seek truth according to Scripture. I tend to agree with Calvin's writings, but that's not to say that I am closeminded to what anyone else has to say on the matter. No disrespect taken Pastor Roger. You know me by my statements and you know that when it comes to Theological discussion (and I use discussion because discussing is what I always do) I will present my stance, and back it up with Scripture that support each other, as well as the truth given from the study of the Scriptures themselves. I know you don't mean to single out Calvinists, however, you as well as I do know that not all are the same. That individual you referred to is known as a hyper calvinist which is completely different than traditional calvinism and it often leads to fatalism. Hence why he makes that statement that you have just produces. I follow the teachings of God first and foremost, and I will give heed to the teachings of man ONLY after I have searched the Scriptures. You might call me a reformed calvinist or a supporter of reformed theology. However you wish, I am the same person I was yesterday, and will be tomorrow. My spiritual gifts have not diminished nor has my calling been affected. So no worries brother. I knew I would get a bit of a response, however, I had to speak up because I won't sit by while other calvinists, who are just as dedicated to the Word, if not more than I, are labeled as these harsh people who think they know who is and who is not going to hell. You see where i'm coming from... So no worries brother, no dis-respect recieved.

I have read many of your posts on here and so far have not disagreed with them. There are many people of different denominations that fall into that same category, thinking they know who is saved and who is going to hell. I agree that we are not the ones to make that decision and I am sure that many of those people will be surprised when the time comes to stand before our Lord.

Taking a stand for the Word of God is what we are told to do and should do. I have been kicked out of some churches for doing just that. It didn't stop and won't.

It is His blood whereby which I am justified and sanctified. There is no dispute over that.

Amen!