Rapture

[Soldier4Christ]

[qoute]where were the dead in Christ before the rapture?

The parable of the brides and the bridegroom explains this.


Mat 25:5  While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

We see in 1Co that the dead are referred to as sleeping.

1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,



1Co 15:16  For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17  And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18  Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.


I believe that you and Beps are both saying the same thing about the meaning of the "last day" and "last days". The last day means the last day of a given period.


Joh 7:37  In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

In this verse we see it was the last day of Jesus being with the disciples before His death and resurection. Then in the following verse we know that it is talking about a period of more than one day but toward the ending of a given period (or age).


Act 2:17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

[SelahJoy]

I really dont know why I keep coming to this website. Theres so much blindness..

I mean people liking:     rick warren
People believing in the: Pre-Trib lie fantasy
People liking the film     The passion of mel gibson

I guess its just all part of the great falling away...

RichkCt,

Don't leave this website if you have Biblical foundation to share!

I'm practically a newbie at this website, but I'm reading and praying.  So, please post and pray.

Love in Jesus,
selahjoy

[nChrist]

I think that we are pretty much on the same sheet of music with most of this discussion.

Sister Reba, there are many people who believe there will be a single resurrection for the just and the unjust, and the portion of Scripture you quoted is one of the main reasons for that belief. You asked for more information about  "the hour", and I only have a few more thoughts right now to share.

If your pastor stood in front of your congregation and said that the hour would come for everyone to die, that would be a different hour for each person. In this discussion, we really only have two categories to consider, the just and the unjust. So, maybe an easier question would be, "Is there more than one resurrection?"

I think the Bible makes it pretty clear that there will be more than one resurrection. I don't know of any other way to explain portions of Scripture like Luke 14:14, Revelation 20:5, 1 Thessalonians 14:13-18, and others. We know that 1 Thessalonians 14:13-18 deals only with the just. We know that Revelation 20:5 speaks of the first resurrection as being the just, a thousand year delay which is the 1,000 year reign of Christ, and the rest of the dead not living again until the end of the thousand years. There is only one category left, so the rest of the dead are the unjust. The only way I know to explain these portions of Scripture is a resurrection of the just as being the first resurrection and a resurrection of the unjust 1,000 years later as being the second resurrection.

However, there is only one Rapture of the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST, and that is the first resurrection, the dead in Christ.

This discussion would lead to other questions that might help to explain John 5:28 and 29.

If there is only a single resurrection that deals with the just and the unjust at the same time:

Why would the Bible refer to a first resurrection? Why not just refer to it as the resurrection if there is only one resurrection?

Why is there no description in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the unjust (lost)?

Who are the dead in Revelation 20:5 who will not live again until the end of the 1,000 years?

Why would Luke 14:14 refer to a resurrection of the just instead of just referring to it as the resurrection?

I have shared some of the reasons for why I believe there are 2 resurrections, but there is much more and some of the Scriptures lead to difficult and lengthy study. I believe that the purpose of the second resurrection is to deliver the unjust up for final judgment, condemnation, and the second death which is actually eternal punishment in the lake of fire. Just a brief study of this topic who involve a host of Scriptures from the Old and the New Testament. I would conclude by saying this is just my opinion, and I realize that many disagree.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I John 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[Reba]

"If your pastor stood in front of your congregation and said that the hour would come for everyone to die, that would be a different hour for each person."

Mr. Bepster the above is a very good responce. Thank you

Are we not resurrected into a new man, at salvation. We who were dead in sin...

[Reba]

Jesus said


John 11:25-26

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
KJV

[nChrist]

"If your pastor stood in front of your congregation and said that the hour would come for everyone to die, that would be a different hour for each person."

Mr. Bepster the above is a very good responce. Thank you

Are we not resurrected into a new man, at salvation. We who were dead in sin...

Sister Reba,

This would be referring to our spirit, not our body of flesh. The new man at Salvation is spirit, not flesh and blood. The resurrection just prior to the Rapture deals with the body of flesh, not the spirit. Why? The spirit is already with Jesus. Absent from the body - present with the Lord.

There are other born-again realities, one being that we are buried with Him, and that would also NOT involve our body of flesh, rather our spirit.

The resurrection of our physical bodies involves a truth that must be met for God to fulfill His promises to us. Flesh and blood can NOT inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, so God gives us a glorified body and keeps His Promise to give us a full inheritance with the Saints in Light.

At a Christian's death, our physical body is sown in corruption and raised in incorruption.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 6:33  For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

[Reba]

Rom 14:17

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
KJV
 

[Reba]

Rom 14:17

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
KJV
 

"This would be referring to our spirit, not our body of flesh."

I agree 100%

how do we worship? in spirit and in truth. He has quicken our mortal bodies. Is God conserend of our flesh and blood bodies or our spiritaul side.
Adam and Eve surlly died when they ate of the 'apple' Just as God said they would. The cross of Jesus allows for fellowshhip with Him fellowship that was in the garden

He walks with me and talks with me along lives narrow way He lives He lives....

[nChrist]

Rom 14:17

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
KJV
 

"This would be referring to our spirit, not our body of flesh."

I agree 100%

how do we worship? in spirit and in truth. He has quicken our mortal bodies. Is God conserend of our flesh and blood bodies or our spiritaul side.
Adam and Eve surlly died when they ate of the 'apple' Just as God said they would. The cross of Jesus allows for fellowshhip with Him fellowship that was in the garden

He walks with me and talks with me along lives narrow way He lives He lives....

Sister Reba,

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying. When we accept Jesus Christ, it is our Spirit that is quickened with him, not our mortal bodies of flesh. As a Christian, our flesh is the enemy of us and of God. Our flesh is the old man of sin.

Ephesians 2:1  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:2  Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Ephesians 2:3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Ephesians 2:4  But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Ephesians 2:5  Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

1 Peter 3:18  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 5:1  Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

[Reba]

Hi Mr. Bepster  

I have  to run 2+ hours to take mom to a Dr appointment so again this is in the fly....

Did Christ die to save or mortal bodies our flesh or did He die to save our souls?

Which is the importiant one the flesh or the soul?

[nChrist]

Sister Reba,

It is soul and spirit.

I was just thinking about my physical body. It's broken and worn out, so I'm happy that I won't be spending eternity in it. I've seen many descriptions and illustrations given of the physical body, and it really boils down to being an outward shell. This is only one reason why God doesn't look at outward appearances, rather the heart. In all reality, if someone asks us who were really are, it's our soul and spirit.

God will give us a glorified body to spend eternity in, and much will be little more than a guess about what it will be like. Some portions of Scripture have led some to believe that it might be light. Regardless, there won't be any pain in it.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Revelation 21:23  And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

[RichkCt]

        I have something to share. I'm sorry for coming in here like a bull in a china shop calling names to people about this subject.

         I have been going through some personal and family struggles for some time now. My daughter had a cancer scare. The state was investigating my my family for we did nothing wrong and we were found not guilty. Then My wife was unjustisfyably fired from her job. However she has a lawyer and the lawyer as reviewed her case and he says that the place she worked at is at fault and she will get her job back but it will take time. Meanwhile we have to worry about the bills, shelter, medical expenses. If its not one thing its another.

          So I came on here and vented. I dont agree with all the opinions however I was wrong for how I jumped on peoples back about certain things.

          I've been under alot of stress and tension. Felt like putting my head through a wall, depression is bad and I've been having suicidal thoughts...I would apprecaite prayers..

Godbless and Love to all here

Rich

[Soldier4Christ]

RichkCt,

We all have our problems but it looks like you have had your plate full. None of us are perfect, as such we will have our disagreements.

My prayers are with you and your family.

[cris]

       I have something to share. I'm sorry for coming in here like a bull in a china shop calling names to people about this subject.

         I have been going through some personal and family struggles for some time now. My daughter had a cancer scare. The state was investigating my my family for we did nothing wrong and we were found not guilty. Then My wife was unjustisfyably fired from her job. However she has a lawyer and the lawyer as reviewed her case and he says that the place she worked at is at fault and she will get her job back but it will take time. Meanwhile we have to worry about the bills, shelter, medical expenses. If its not one thing its another.

          So I came on here and vented. I dont agree with all the opinions however I was wrong for how I jumped on peoples back about certain things.

          I've been under alot of stress and tension. Felt like putting my head through a wall, depression is bad and I've been having suicidal thoughts...I would apprecaite prayers..

Godbless and Love to all here

Rich

Hey Rich,

Stress and tension!  Head through a wall!  Down!  I know, believe me, I KNOW what you must be going through.  You will be in my prayers, buddy.  Sometimes it takes a lot to apologize, regardless of whether a person was right or wrong.  Now, I'm going to give you some CU manner lessons..............just kidding.

Father God, through Your son Jesus Christ, touch Rich's family.  Bless them Lord God.  Protect them from the snare and wiles of the enemy.  Bless them with good health, good jobs and a hunger and thirst for You.  Give them guidance and direction, wisdom and courage, and strength and discernment.  Draw all of them closer to You, Father.  Father, expecially, I pray for Rich that You would raise him from the depression of the enemy.  Show him Your hope.  Increase his faith, and help any doubt he might have.  Shower him with Your love Lord God.  Holy Spirit of the living God, fall fresh on Rich, right now.  Let him feel Your presence, Father.  Hold him in Your bosom tonight, Father.  Send people to him who will be of help.  Send Your angels to battle for him and other angels to minister to him and for him.  Just bathe Rich in Your love, Father, all in the name of Your son Jesus Christ.  Receive Rich, receive.

Grace and peace,
cris

[Reba]

Welcome  to CU Rich...

Some where is a post of mine sounds a lot like yours above  most of us have vented here...

Does venting make  Rich part of CU?  

Folks here a helpfull hang around get to know 'em