Rapture

[nChrist]

Brother Rich,

Many sweet Christians here will be praying for you and your family. Most of us have fought personal, family, and health struggles except maybe the young people here. The difficult times can draw you closer to JESUS and make you stronger in HIM. I pray that is exactly what will happen in your current struggle. Knowing that JESUS walks with us every step of the way is a precious truth.

Brother, I will pray for you and I would appreciate your prayer for me.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 30:21  And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

[bluelake]

Christ will come back one time. It won't be a secret. Every eye will see Him.
1Cor.15
Christ is indeed coming back, Once, are you ready?

God bless you,
bluelake

[Shammu]

2 Corinthians 5:10 teaches that all believers of this age must appear before the judgment seat of Christ in heaven. This event, often known as the "Bema Judgment" from the Greek word bema, is an event never mentioned in the detailed accounts connected with the second coming of Christ to the earth. Since such an evaluation would require some passage of time, the pre-trib gap of seven years nicely accounts for such a requirement.

Revelation 19:7-10 pictures the church as a bride who has been made ready for marriage (illustrated as "fine linen," which represents "the righteous acts of the saints") to her groom (Christ); and the bride has already been clothed in preparation for her return at the second coming accompanying Christ to the earth Rev. 19:11-18, it follows that the church would already have to be complete and in heaven (because of the pre-trib rapture) in order to have been prepared in the way that Revelation 19 describes. This requires an interval of time which pretribulationism handles well.

Believers who come to faith in Christ during the tribulation are not translated at Christ's second advent but carry on ordinary occupations such as farming and building houses, and they will bear children Isa. 65:20-25. This would be impossible if all saints were translated at the second coming to the earth, as posttribulationists teach. Because pretribulationists have at least a seven-year interval between the removal of the church at the rapture and the return of Christ to the earth, this is not a problem because millions of people will be saved during the interval and thus be available to populate the millennium in their natural bodies in order to fulfill Scripture.

It would be impossible for the judgment of the Gentiles to take place after the second coming if the rapture and second coming are not separated by a gap of time. How would both saved and unsaved, still in their natural bodies, be separated in judgment, if all living believers are translated at the second coming. This would be impossible if the translation takes place at the second coming, but it is solved through a pretribulational gap.

A time interval is needed so that God's program for the church, a time when Jew and Gentile are united in one body not become commingled in any way with His unfinished and future plan for Israel during the tribulation.  The pretribulational rapture of the church fulfills a biblical need to not only see a distinction between the translation of Church Age saints at the rapture, before the second coming, but it also handles without difficulty the necessity of a time-gap which harmonizes a number of future biblical events. This requirement of a seven-year gap of time adds another plank to the likelihood that pretribulationism best reflects the biblical viewpoint.

[nChrist]

Dreamweaver,

EXCELLENT! - I've never seen so much hard-hitting information packed into such a small brief. You also mentioned some unique things that I've never considered. I'm thinking back to some huge discussions we've had here that one could spend many hours just reading.

I just have one more thought for tonight - I hope and pray that JESUS comes for us soon. This old world is getting more evil by the minute.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Timothy 4:7-8 ASV  I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith:  henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give to me at that day; and not to me only, but also to all them that have loved his appearing.

[Bronzesnake]

Excellent work Dreamweaver!!

And to think pretrib was nonsense!!

Another thing to consider is the reason for satan being released after the thousand year reign of Jesus and His saints.

 Many wonder why Jesus would release satan. Free will is the answer my friends.

 As DW pointed out, there will be many generations of people born during the thousand years. All these people must be given the same chance to either accept Jesus or reject Him. So satan is released so that there will be a choice.

As incredible as it sounds, there will be some who actually believe satan and side with him. Even though these people would have lived in the light of the Lord for the thousand years. I think the key here is that these people do not get to enter the Holy City. satan will be able to use that to his advantage. he will no doubt convince many that the reason they can not enter the Holy City is because if they did, they would discover that it wasn't God within the Holy walls, but it was actually the devil. satan will convince these people that he is actually God, and that's how he was able to escape his prison. he will gather them who believe in him together and gather at the gates of the Holy City in order to "take it back"

 Just my theory, but satan is very crafty, and he will have some kind of convincing lie which will be powerful enough to trick those who actually live on earth at the same time as Jesus is here.


John

[bluelake]

Dreamweaver,

EXCELLENT! - I've never seen so much hard-hitting information packed into such a small brief. You also mentioned some unique things that I've never considered. I'm thinking back to some huge discussions we've had here that one could spend many hours just reading.

I just have one more thought for tonight - I hope and pray that JESUS comes for us soon. This old world is getting more evil by the minute.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Timothy 4:7-8 ASV  I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith:  henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give to me at that day; and not to me only, but also to all them that have loved his appearing.

Hi everyone,
When I replied to The first post it was late . I didn't have the energy to give a satisfactory reply. This time I will include scripture.  

1Thes.3:13, Jude14 will the saints be with Jesus at His return?
1Thes 4:16-17 Every eye will see him, every ear will hear, a shout a loud trumpet. Does this sound like a secret?
Mt.24;30-31 1Cor.15:20-23
Saints come with Jesus at His retrurn because the resurrection takes place at this time.
Mt.24:31, 1Thes.4:16
Will Christ descend from heaven quietly?
 1Cor.15:15-52
Will the raising of thre dead (the resurrection) and the changing from immortality, for those living, take place at the Last Trump?
Rev.11:15-19
What happens when the 7th. angel sounds ? Is this  a trumpet blast? (Chapter 8:1-26) Is Christ to have  great power? Are the dead to be judged and rewarded at this time?
Is the heaven of God to become visible?
Http://www.keithhunt.com/rapture.html

God bless you,
bluelake

[Reba]

Any one here read Ice?


Most of what is posted here is not scripture. It is a collection of what some folks believe the scriptures to say. A collection of verses, put together, to draw to the conclusion the poster or , author of a artical wishes the reader to conclude.

[nChrist]

Hello Sister Reba,

It's great to see you on the forum. I mainly just wanted to say hello. We all know there are varying opinions on this topic, and that's no problem. I must ask you what is Ice?

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 26:3 ASV  Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee; because he trusteth in thee.

[nChrist]

Hello Bluelake,

It's also nice to see you back on the forum. I'm not sure about what you are asking in some of your questions. We do have several threads on the forum with huge amounts of detail. There is a lot of confusion that can be solved by understanding that the Rapture and the Second Coming are two different events.

At the Second Coming, the LORD comes all the way down to the earth. The Saints will be caught up to meet the LORD in the air at the Rapture.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 NASB  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.    Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

This is not the Second Coming, but it is the Rapture.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Corinthians 2:2-5 ASV  For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.  And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.  And my speech and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:  that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

[Reba]

In youir views which is the time Jesus steps on the  mountain?  At rapture or second coming? And what of the temple at this time?

[Soldier4Christ]

Reba,

Any one here read Ice?

Institution of Civil Engineers Magazine??  I used to read it all the time but I"m sure that isn't what you mean??

[Reba]

Ice is one of many rapture teachers.  

[bluelake]

Hello Bluelake,

It's also nice to see you back on the forum. I'm not sure about what you are asking in some of your questions. We do have several threads on the forum with huge amounts of detail. There is a lot of confusion that can be solved by understanding that the Rapture and the Second Coming are two different events.

At the Second Coming, the LORD comes all the way down to the earth. The Saints will be caught up to meet the LORD in the air at the Rapture.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 NASB  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.    Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

This is not the Second Coming, but it is the Rapture.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Corinthians 2:2-5 ASV  For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.  And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.  And my speech and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:  that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Thank you for your reply. Not all churches teach pre -Tribulation.
. 'The main differences of opinion concern the time of the rapture. The primary theories are: 1) Pretribulation rapture; 2) Midtribulation rapture; 3) Posttribulation rapture; 3) Partial rapture, which is sort of a Marine Corps rapture where only the perfect, only the brave, only the few are worthy to be raptured before the wrath of God is poured out; 5) Postmillenial rapture; and 6) Amillenialist rapture. Take your pick. '

(. . . There is also the new theory of No Rapture.)

I believe Jesus will come back one time. I understand that not all believe as I do. It's been awhile since I've done a study on this topic.
Concerning the questions, I included scriptures that support the questions.  

God bless you,
bluelake.

[Bronzesnake]

 These verses are for those who are not familliar with them.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.  

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.  

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 It's best to let God do the talking over anyone who writes his or her opinion in a book, whether his name is Ice or Peter Pan.

 It's ok to read books, but if they don't line up perfectly with the scriptures, I toss them.
 Jesus Christ is the final authority, not me, not an author.

[nChrist]

Bronzesnake,

The above portion of Scripture and others speak volumes. There are many facts that can be extracted directly from the Scriptures, compiled, and compared with other portions of Scripture that address the same topic.

If the author or person doing the Bible study lists the Scriptures as the authority for a thought and lets the reader compare the thought to the authority of the Scripture, that's what I want to read when I do my own study. I'm not familiar with many of the authors mentioned these days. Most of my favorite studies on this topic and others are from men of God who are already home with their Lord and Saviour.

As an obvious result for me, my favorite studies heavily use references from the Holy Bible. We have many threads on Christians Unite that are heavily documented from the Holy Bible. In that way, facts can be established that are not simply a matter of opinion. However, the differences still appear with some who choose to call a portion of Scripture a metaphor or something other than literal. Other differences involve the time-line and sequence of events in Bible Prophecies, and these types of differences should be expected.

I choose to take the Holy Bible's descriptions of the Rapture, the Tribulation Period, the Second Coming of Jesus, and the 1,000 year rule and reign of Christ as literal, so I call them facts. I would be quick to point out that differences of opinion on these topics should never be an excuse to break fellowship between Christians.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 13:20-21 ASV  Now the God of peace, who brought again from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an eternal covenant, even our Lord Jesus, make you perfect in every good thing to do his will, working in us that which is well-pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen.