CHRIST OR the devil

[Reba]

Thanks Joshua,
 For answering the questions and i will be looking for your added responce.  

[Bronzesnake]

Reba:

Of course I accept the verses written.

The Jewish religion doesn't have Christ as the Messiah as they are still seeking the Christ...don't forget that the word Christ in Greek was the equivelant to "Messiah" in Hebrew. The Jews thought they had the Messiah with Judah Maccabee's, turns out they wanted a military leader...however the Nation of Israel and the Jews will come...in God's time...to know Jesus as Messiah...that's promised in Scripture.

The Jews don't abide in the doctrine of Christ...YET. It's clear in Scripture that they as a nation will because God keeps His promises. I'm not arguing that the Jews are saved at this moment...however I am arguing that they are not a cult. They are still God's people no matter what...they've just been set aside and have been so for a few thousand years. Just a few responses...i'll do some more research on those verses and get back to you. God Bless

Joshua

 That's exactly what I've been saying!  

Bronzesnake

[Jemidon2004]

LoL...glad we understand what you're saying now Bronze...lol..and no problem Reba...you ask a question, i'll try my best to answer it to the best of your satisfaction without being too exhaustive.

God Bless

Joshua

[Mrs.Chosen]

Quote:Bronze

What is worse - belonging to a cult, or being a child of satan?

what is worse is not belonging to CHRIST.


1) We must remember that Jesus is the same God that said ALL THE JEWS WILL BE SAVED.
Do you believe Jesus when He says this or not?
[/b]Yes, just like when He said there is only one way to the FATHER and that would be by accepting Him. (Jesus)



A) Lisa my sister in Jesus...what do you believe God is telling the Jews in this verse?
I believe GOD is saying exactlly what is written.

B)Why does He specifically say "thee and thy seed after thee in their generations"  and then He says "for an everlasting covenant" Why does GOD say that He will use who He wants, Rise up who He wants and so forth, because He is GOD.

C)Do you believe this promise has somehow been canceled?
Canceled? Well lets see...
   
Apparent Failure of the promises to ISRAEL explained by their unbelief

Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to GOD for them is for their salvation.
For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for GOD, but not in accordance with knowledge. For not knowing about GODs righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of GOD. For CHRIST is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
3) Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.  
Gods promise is about the land here. LAND not everlasting life.

Remeber Lisa, God is telling the Jews this a couple of thousand years before Jesus came and died on the cross - and He is telling them that - not only will the Jews who are alive at the time He was making that promise, but all the generations of Jews to come after them.
LAND is what this scripture is about. And you say GOD said this to them before Jesus even came as if Jesus did not come and die for the jews also. You say that like they had some kind of locked in deal and they don't need Jesus?

A) Why would God make such a promise if He wouldn't keep it?
GOD never promised them they they would get everlasting life if they didn't accept Jesus. As was said by someone who agrees with you =they don't believe yet=

B) Do you agree that God made that promise to those Jews and all the future generations of Jews to come? see answer A teacher.

4) Now I know you don't like answering questions, but  perhaps you can define what a "false god religion" is?
a false god religion is one that worship false gods
for a bonus- a false god is anything or anyone that is not the true God. The Trinity, FatherSonHolySpirit.

5) Also, perhaps you could explain exactly which "false god" is the God of the Old Testament. people worshiped animals and objects,statues, and fire. But GOD was who the jews worsiped at that time. Thats not what I am disputing. When JesusGod came to earth they did not receive The True GOD anymore. Did you read that?

6) What is a "true Jew"? Someone who holds to the doctrine of the jews. And believes in them and them alone. They don't accept the new testament.

and here is a couple of more questions...

1) What does "everlasting" mean? what ever you want it to mean

2) What does covenant mean?
Let me tell you it's not about what I think and as i look up the word in the New Unger's Bible Dictionary it has way more meanings that you think. But I will post this one that you are referring to.
=The Covenant with Isreal- This took place at Sinai, when the people had intimidated theracceptance of the words of the covenant as found in the Ten Commandments and promised to keep the same. Their obedience to the commands of the law was to be rewarded by Gods constant care of Isreal, temporal prosperity, victory over enemies, and the pouring out of His Spirit. The seal of this covenant was to be circumcision and was called "His Covenant" It was renewed after different periods of jewish history.=




Another Quote" The Jews don't abide in the doctrine of Christ...YET. "
 Well hello!!!! thats what I'm saying. So if they don't have Christ and they die, well.

Quote:"They are still God's people no matter what...they've just been set aside and have been so for a few thousand years."
So when you say set aside does that mean they get away with not accepting Jesus??? For a few thousand years? Will they die without accepting Him in this few thousand years?
Now what happens when you die without Christ? Jews are not loved beter than us nor does GOD show them favortism.

[Jemidon2004]

I said in a few thousand years to signify that they've been sat aside for a LONG time...Actually the Jews are still God's treasure...I've not seen any Scripture that claims that. If you want my stance on the issue check out this site:

http://www.geocities.com/reasonstobelieve2000/josh.html

it has my bible study I did on Israel and may clarify mine and bronze's stance. God Bless

Joshua

[Reba]

LoL...glad we understand what you're saying now Bronze...lol..and no problem Reba...you ask a question, i'll try my best to answer it to the best of your satisfaction without being too exhaustive.

God Bless

What is your understanding of verse 11?

Joshua

[Bronzesnake]

Mrs Chosen...

 All I can say my sister, is that you are seriously confused about many of the scriptures. Your answers, as muddled as they are, corroborate that fact.

It isn't a Heaven or Hell issue, so I will cease in trying to explain it to you my sister.

many blessings Lisa.

Bronzesnake

 

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

2 cents worth I hope:

This is a very difficult and deep study in God's Word. I would simply like to make several comments.

Man is never able to obey the law, be in obedience to God, be free of sin, or keep any of his promises to God. This is one primary reason why Jesus fulfilled the law and died on the Cross for us.

Those of us who are children of God (born again - Saved) are members of the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. Almighty God has made promises to this CHURCH not made with human hands, and HE will keep them, even though there isn't a single member worthy of entrance or worthy of staying. Every man and woman in HIS CHURCH failed, sinned, fell short, and disobeyed, BUT Almighty God will keep HIS promises to HIS CHURCH regardless. Almighty God always keeps his part of any PROMISE to the letter and perfectly, but not one of the SAVED has done as instructed or obeyed. That does not mean that Almighty God will condemn them or kick them out of the BODY OF CHRIST. Just the opposite - Almighty God always keeps HIS promises completely and perfectly.

Israel is NOT the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. Israel is set apart forever, and Almighty God has made promises to Israel that will be kept completely and perfectly. YES!, all of Israel will be SAVED at God's appointed time. Israel has suffered greatly for many generations because of disobedience, and Israel will continue to suffer until God's appointed time. Israel is still in disobedience, but that does not mean that Almighty God will fail to keep HIS Promises completely and perfectly to Israel at HIS appointed time. That time is not now, but that time will come. Israel is still God's own, HIS chosen people, and all of Israel will be saved.

Israel has always been treated separate and apart, and the same remains true today and forever. Almighty God is NOT finished dealing with Israel. A time will come when Israel will suffer more greatly than ever, but a time will also come when all Israel will be saved. The nations that come against or harm Israel will experience the wrath of Almighty God. The nations that bless Israel will be blessed. In the ages to come, Israel will be the center of world attention and the horrible wrath to come. BUT, Israel, specifically Jerusalem, will be location for the Throne of Jesus Christ when HE rules and reigns over the earth for 1,000 years. No power can prevent the Promises of Almighty God being fulfilled completely and perfectly at HIS appointed time. That time is not yet, but it might be near.

In times past, Almighty God blinded Israel for disobedience, and that time was when Jesus walked the earth and was rejected by HIS OWN, Israel. Israel has been punished since that time, and Israel's greatest punishment is yet to come. At God's appointed time, HE will heal Israel of blindness, AND, ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED! SO, Israel will experience much more of GOD's WRATH, but Israel will also be healed and restored for eternity at God's appointed time.

Finally, Israel does not represent a cult, an Antichrist religion, or anything evil at all. Regardless of Israel's disobedience, Israel is still set apart and distinct for the future promises of Almighty God. Israel is still GOD'S, and Israel will be restored , MADE TO SEE, HEALED, AND SAVED!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 55:17  Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.

[Mrs.Chosen]

ok. I hear you so i just have 1 question.

If a jew who practises judaism dies today (right now) will he go to heaven?

[Bronzesnake]

Bronzesnake, I am confused here.

You even said to me in a private message, "I agree that without Jesus we don't get to Heaven. I wasn't arguing that."

Here you seem to be supporting Judaism and saying they will be saved, where in a private message you said that the Jews won't make it to Heaven.

 You misunderstood me my friend. I did say that without Jesus, Jews are doomed - so are we - got it so far?

 I am saying that the Jews will be saved by God - God is Jesus. God made them a very special promise - a promise which was made exclusively to the Jews - the Jews have a seperate special covenant from God/Jesus - God/Jesus promised the Jews that they would ALL be forgiven and saved - God/Jesus will forgive EVERY SINGLE JEW - The Jews will ALL accept Jesus, the Jews who died in the O.T. times and the Jews that died in Jesus times and the Jews who live or die in the Great Tribulation - ALL Jews! That's exactly what God told them - God has warned us (Gentiles) not to be "ignorant" or jealous of this special promise which He made with His CHOSEN people (read Romans 11). We have been "grafted" in to that covenant - We are "added" - We have not "supplanted" the Jews - That's the mistake that some of us have made - We can't understand that God has the power to accomplish ALL things - In His own way - At His own appointed time.

 We gentiles have an option - accept God or spend eternity in the Lake of Fire - We either will or we won't accept Him - God has promised the Jews that they WILL ALL accept Jesus,  therefore they WILL ALL BE SAVED.

 Why do you think there is an "Old covenant" and a "New covenant"? Do you believe God/Jesus broke the old one in favour of the new one? He did not!

 Jesus Himself made a very specific declaration in regards to this very question my friend...

 Matthew 5:17-19, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

 Jesus said that until all is fulfilled, the Old Covenant is still in effect. So here's the question. When is, "till all be fulfilled"? The popular belief is that when Jesus said "it is finished" (John 19:30) on the cross, and the Temple vale tore from top to bottom, that was the fulfillment of all things. That's wrong!

 Jesus said the following...

 Luke 21:21-24, "Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

 Jesus described what would happen in the future...He said that the Jews would have great trouble in their land, and wrath would be on their people. He described war and expulsion from Israel. This is exactly what happened. The Roman General Vespasian took his army to Israel and kicked their bums! Vespasian evicted all the Jews and the Gentiles moved in and took over - that's when Israel became known as Palestine... exactly as Jesus said it would happen.

 The fulfillment of "all things" is revealed - It happens when the time of the Gentiles is complete. That happens at Christs second coming.

 The Old covenant has not been destroyed - it will be fulfilled - The New covenant has not supplanted the Old covenant - God/Jesus will forgive ALL JEWS - In His appointed time.

Bronzesnake

 

[Mrs.Chosen]

You have said much again but yet not address the question.
My question was...ok. I hear you so i just have 1 question.

If a jew who practises judaism dies today (right now) will he go to heaven?  
 
 
You said Quote" God/Jesus will forgive EVERY SINGLE JEW - The Jews will ALL accept Jesus, the Jews who died in the O.T. times and the Jews that died in Jesus times and the Jews who live or die in the Great Tribulation - ALL Jews!

see we agree!!!! You are saying that the jews that die today won't be saved. You do know there are jews today right?

[Bronzesnake]

You have said much again but yet not address the question.
My question was...ok. I hear you so i just have 1 question.

If a jew who practises judaism dies today (right now) will he go to heaven?  
 
 
You said Quote" God/Jesus will forgive EVERY SINGLE JEW - The Jews will ALL accept Jesus, the Jews who died in the O.T. times and the Jews that died in Jesus times and the Jews who live or die in the Great Tribulation - ALL Jews!

see we agree!!!! You are saying that the jews that die today won't be saved. You do know there are jews today right?

 Are you telling me thatw e don't live in Jesus times?  

I was actually responding to Erise's question to me...

I don't believe you can comprehend the scriptures in regards to the Jews and God's ETERNAL PROMISE to them.

There is no question in my mind as to the absolute faithfull love that you have for Jesus - but on this subject, you are just plain wrong my sister.

So I will reiterate my prior post to you my sister...

 Mrs Chosen...

All I can say my sister, is that you are seriously confused about many of the scriptures. Your answers, as muddled as they are, corroborate that fact.

It isn't a Heaven or Hell issue, so I will cease in trying to explain it to you my sister.

many blessings Lisa.

Bronzesnake

[Mrs.Chosen]

When you said
"and the Jews that died in Jesus times " that is past tence.
I'm an english major so thats probally why I read that wrong.
Because died means past tence.
Anyway you say it's not a heaven or hell issue like they have special rules. Heaven and hell is everyones choise. The bible says that the jews are not loved more by GOD than we are. The bible say there is no more jew and gentile meaning GOD does not show them special favor. We all gotta except HIM and the jews don't right now, the still think Jesus is coming for the 1st time when He was already hear. Now what part of that don't I understand.
I do read more that the old testamentand all understanding is not in the old testament it's in the Whole Word.
But jews are not receiving the New testiment and they are dying with out receiving Jesus. I mean the jews by blood line and religion. Are we talking about the same people?
Maybe thats where the confussion is coming in?

[Reba]

I am saying that the Jews will be saved by God - God is Jesus. God made them a very special promise - a promise which was made exclusively to the Jews - the Jews have a seperate special covenant from God/Jesus - God/Jesus promised the Jews that they would ALL be forgiven and saved - God/Jesus will forgive EVERY SINGLE JEW - The Jews will ALL accept Jesus, the Jews who died in the O.T. times and the Jews that died in Jesus times and the Jews who live or die in the Great Tribulation - ALL Jews! That's exactly what God told them - God has warned us (Gentiles) not to be "ignorant" or jealous of this special promise which He made with His CHOSEN people (read Romans 11). We have been "grafted" in to that covenant - We are "added" - We have not "supplanted" the Jews - That's the mistake that some of us have made - We can't understand that God has the power to accomplish ALL things - In His own way - At His own appointed time.

Fellow christians the way to asure the salvation of your grandchildren is to have them have a Jewish mother. Correct Bronze? And all this time i thought salvation was at the Cross of Christ.

P.S.  If your only halve Jewish are you only halve saved?

[Bronzesnake]

I am saying that the Jews will be saved by God - God is Jesus. God made them a very special promise - a promise which was made exclusively to the Jews - the Jews have a seperate special covenant from God/Jesus - God/Jesus promised the Jews that they would ALL be forgiven and saved - God/Jesus will forgive EVERY SINGLE JEW - The Jews will ALL accept Jesus, the Jews who died in the O.T. times and the Jews that died in Jesus times and the Jews who live or die in the Great Tribulation - ALL Jews! That's exactly what God told them - God has warned us (Gentiles) not to be "ignorant" or jealous of this special promise which He made with His CHOSEN people (read Romans 11). We have been "grafted" in to that covenant - We are "added" - We have not "supplanted" the Jews - That's the mistake that some of us have made - We can't understand that God has the power to accomplish ALL things - In His own way - At His own appointed time.

Fellow christians the way to asure the salvation of your grandchildren is to have them have a Jewish mother. Correct Bronze? And all this time i thought salvation was at the Cross of Christ.

P.S.  If your only halve Jewish are you only halve saved?

 Reeba...am I detecting a hint of sarcasm?  

 What part of ALL JEWS do you think God is lying or wrong about?

Bronzesnake