Joining the Military

[JitC]

My argument is that, in the quote you gave, it seems to sound like Jesus is implying a greater meaning rather than commanding it.  The ambiguity of the quote seems to hint that there is a further meaning.  What it is though I can only guess at.

There most certainly is a greater meaning behind it than what is said. And it’s my opinion that even if we were to analyze the quote and come up with what we think is the greater meaning, we would probably still be missing parts of the meaning. To fully understand God, even on a single topic, is impossible. So rather than have the need to understand fully everything that He said in order to do what’s right, all that’s needed is to just do what He said. He didn’t explain why we should do each thing that He said, or what positive effects there would be by doing those things, He just said to do them. We might analyze the things He said, even to great lengths, but simple obedience must come first, because even with much analyzing of what He said we still won’t have the whole picture.

[ollie]

"Jesus said not to make any promises to people."

Where specifically is that written?

Matt 5:33-37 - "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one."

swear:
Strong's Number: 3660
Transliterated: omnuo
Phonetic: om-noo'-o

Text:  a prolonged form of a primary but obsolete omo, for which another prolonged form (omoo {om-o'-o}) is used in certain tenses; to swear, i.e. take (or declare on) oath: --swear.

oath:
Strong's Number: 3727
Transliterated: horkos
Phonetic: hor'-kos

Text:  from herkos (a fence; perhaps akin to 3725); a limit, i.e. (sacred) restraint (specifically, an oath): --oath.

Strong's Number: 3725
Transliterated: horion
Phonetic: hor'-ee-on

Text:  neuter of a derivative of an apparently primary horos (a bound or limit); a boundary-line, i.e. (by implication) a frontier (region): --border, coast.

How is it forbidden by Jesus Christ to promise anybody anything in those  verses in light of what an oath and swearing really means?

Promise is not mentioned in the verse you gave.

promise:
Strong's Number: 1860
Transliterated: epaggelia
Phonetic: ep-ang-el-ee'-ah

Text:  from 1861; an announcement (for information, assent or pledge; especially a divine assurance of good): -- message, promise.


ollie

[Shammu]

"Jesus said not to make any promises to people."

Where specifically is that written?

Matt 5:33-37 - "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one."

swear:
Strong's Number: 3660
Transliterated: omnuo
Phonetic: om-noo'-o

Text:  a prolonged form of a primary but obsolete omo, for which another prolonged form (omoo {om-o'-o}) is used in certain tenses; to swear, i.e. take (or declare on) oath: --swear.

oath:
Strong's Number: 3727
Transliterated: horkos
Phonetic: hor'-kos

Text:  from herkos (a fence; perhaps akin to 3725); a limit, i.e. (sacred) restraint (specifically, an oath): --oath.

Strong's Number: 3725
Transliterated: horion
Phonetic: hor'-ee-on

Text:  neuter of a derivative of an apparently primary horos (a bound or limit); a boundary-line, i.e. (by implication) a frontier (region): --border, coast.

How is it forbidden by Jesus Christ to promise anybody anything in those  verses in light of what an oath and swearing really means?

Promise is not mentioned in the verse you gave.

promise:
Strong's Number: 1860
Transliterated: epaggelia
Phonetic: ep-ang-el-ee'-ah

Text:  from 1861; an announcement (for information, assent or pledge; especially a divine assurance of good): -- message, promise.


ollie

Leave it to ollie to come up with the easiest way to explain something. None of the rest of us could explain, so easy.

[JitC]

How is it forbidden by Jesus Christ to promise anybody anything in those verses in light of what an oath and swearing really means?

Promise is not mentioned in the verse you gave.

You can call a contract by whatever name you want; a promise; an oath; a binding agreement...whatever. It really doesn't matter what you call it, it's still more than a yes or no.

"But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one." - (Matt 5:37)

[Reba]

I wonder how many of those little boxes have been 'check' the ones the soft ware uses?

[Shammu]

I wonder how many of those little boxes have been 'check' the ones the soft ware uses?

Everyone I can check Reba.

[nChrist]

JitC,

You won't be able to get married or do quite a few other things until you understand this portion of Scripture. It simply DOES NOT mean what you think it does, NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[ollie]

How is it forbidden by Jesus Christ to promise anybody anything in those verses in light of what an oath and swearing really means?

Promise is not mentioned in the verse you gave.

You can call a contract by whatever name you want; a promise; an oath; a binding agreement...whatever. It really doesn't matter what you call it, it's still more than a yes or no.

"But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one." - (Matt 5:37)

I am calling it by what the Holy Spirit has revealed. You are calling it by man's interpretaion. The Holy Spirit has not used promise or contract here. It is man that thinks of oath and swear with these terms applied to them.

God's ways are not man's. God has to speak to us in terms and symbols to which we can relate.

The word of God says no swearing and to perform your oaths  unto the Lord with out forswearing, (perjury, lying),

If you affirm anything let your communication be,Yea, Yea. If you deny anything let your communication be Nay, Nay without swearing or making it an oath. It should be done with out lying and as unto the Lord.

 Matthew 5:33.  "Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
 34.  But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
 35.  Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
 36.  Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
 37.  But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

In the Spirit of His Love,
ollie
 

[JitC]

The Holy Spirit has not used promise or contract here.

"Trinity" isn't in the Bible either. But, like I said, it doesn't matter which word is used.

Can you honestly say that a contract is not more than a yes or no?

[JitC]

You won't be able to get married or do quite a few other things until you understand this portion of Scripture.

That's absurd. You don't need a contract to get married. Sure the government offers contracts if you want one, and without one they won't recognize the marriage. They're recognizing sodomite marriages, but that doesn't mean they are actually married. Whether or not somebody has a government contract doesn't determine who's married. If it did, then homosexuals with contracts would be married. (You don't actually think they're married do you?) A lot of people think that without the government contract you are not married. That's just silly. The government didn't invent marriage. God did. And it's not against the law to be married without a marriage license, so I don't need to here about Paul saying we should obey the law. You can be married, and not have a contract, while still not breaking the law. I think the idea that the government determines who's married is akin to if they were to give contracts that said you were forgiven of your sins. It wouldn't matter who has a contract or who doesn't.

[Shammu]

You won't be able to get married or do quite a few other things until you understand this portion of Scripture.

That's absurd. You don't need a contract to get married.

Wrong, marriage is a contract between a husband and wife, involving vows (oaths, promises,) before the Lord.

Edited to add;
to add another statement

The Holy Spirit has not used promise or contract here.

Correct ollie, *sigh*

[nChrist]

JitC,

Your porch light is off. In fact, you might not have a porch light.

Real marriage involves vows before God. That's the only marriage that I recognize as being real. Many seek to defile marriage and others break their vows before God.

If you lack the fortitude or the reverence to God, don't make a vow, oath, or anything else that would be AS TO THE LORD. So, you need to remain single until you understand this portion of Scripture. Marriage vows are AS TO THE LORD. So are oaths.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[JitC]

Wrong, marriage is a contract between a husband and wife.

Where does the bible say that? The ceremony that often goes along with a marriage is man made. The obligation that one has to his/her spouse is God given. No contract needs to be made with people.

"...will you have this woman as your wife, to live together in the estate of matrimony? Will you love her, honor her, comfort her, and keep her in sickness and in health; forsaking all others, be true to her as long as you both shall live?"

You can simply say "I do." You don't need to promise anything. Your word doesn't need to be anything more than your word.

I think people try to make things more complicated than they are. Jesus said don't swear, so we shouldn't.

[Shammu]

Wrong, marriage is a contract between a husband and wife.

Where does the bible say that? The ceremony that often goes along with a marriage is man made. The obligation that one has to his/her spouse is God given. No contract needs to be made with people.

"...will you have this woman as your wife, to live together in the estate of matrimony? Will you love her, honor her, comfort her, and keep her in sickness and in health; forsaking all others, be true to her as long as you both shall live?"

You can simply say "I do." You don't need to promise anything. Your word doesn't need to be anything more than your word.

The primary legal basis for marriage within the Holy Scriptures shows that it represented a covenant. It is not difficult to comprehend what a covenant is if one will pay close attention to the meaning of the word. In modern language a "covenant" is simply a "contract." In regard to the marriage covenant (or "contract"), it is usually an agreement made between a man and a woman to live with one another in close, intimate circumstances which includes the experience of sexual relations between the couple. The agreement itself is usually a public confirmation of a covenant/contract established between a particular man and woman to live in holy matrimony. In biblical times the parents of the bride and groom usually made the contract between themselves. The contract may have had nothing to do with the emotional desires of the couple being married. Hardly ever were emotional considerations of the young couple the prime factors for their marriage.

The main parties to most marriage covenants in ancient times were the parents of the bride and groom. This was the case throughout the whole of the biblical period, including that of the New Testament itself (I Corinthians7:38,39) Therefore both he that giveth his virgin in marriage doth well: and he that giveth her not doth better. A woman is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth: but if her husband die, she is at liberty. Let her marry to whom she will: only in the Lord In any event, it should be recognized by biblical students (and those wishing to abide by the principles of the scriptural revelation) that marriage in biblical times was more a legal agreement between the parents of a young man and woman than an emotional and independent covenant made by the young couple themselves. It is important to recognize this point if one is to appreciate what marriage is as it pertains to the scriptural revelation.

The fundamental principle that governed all marriages in biblical times was that they were all covenants -- they were all acknowledged as being contracts Prov.2:17; Mal.2:14. If moderns understood this concept (and if they wish to abide by the principles of those who wrote the Bible),then almost all problems (both theological and secular) which have arisen in peoples' minds over what constitutes a marriage would disappear. Common sense and scriptural understanding would return to the issue and all people could have a proper appraisal of what embodies the essential features governing the marriage relationship. For emphasis' sake (and in this crucial matter emphasis is needed), let me say again that a biblical marriage represented a contract. It was a contract/covenant between a woman and a man or between two families that enabled the couple being married to become (in the eyes of the covenant-makers and society) "one flesh" Gen.2:24; Matt.19:5,6.

As an example of this contract/covenant principle (and where it is illustrated in its best form) is the Old Covenant that God made with ancient Israel at Mount Sinai. The Old Covenant was nothing more than a marriage contract. God was reckoned as a male and the nation of Israelas a female -- with Israel becoming the married bride of Yahweh at Mount Sinai. "I am married unto you," said the most high God Jer.3:14. "I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee [Israel], and thou becomest mine [i.e. my wife]" Ezek.16:8. See also a technical analogy to this marriage of Jesus to Israel in Hosea 2:16.

Exodus 24:3,4,7,8 "And Moses came and told the people all the words of Yahweh, and all the judgements: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which Yahweh hath said will we do. And Moses wrote all the words of Yahweh, and rose up early in the morning and builded and altar. . . And he took the book of the covenant [the marriage covenant], and read it in the audience of the people: and they said, All that Yahweh hath said will we do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant[the marriage covenant], which Yahweh hath made with you concerning al all these words."

Go in peace.
DW

[JitC]

JitC,

Your porch light is off. In fact, you might not have a porch light.

  Does such childish behavior really benefit this forum? There are few posts by you, to me that haven't included some sort of childish remark or sarcasm.