Eternal Security.

[Ambassador4Christ]

Wow! Thanks Pilgrim and Blackeyed Peas!   Awesome job! What an encouragement!

DITTO  

[Allinall]

First of all let me say that it is good to see this place back up!  I'll admit I was a bit shocked to hear it had been hacked.  But, God is good.

I also wanted to say that I've truly enjoyed reading this passage.  It's not argumentative or defensive.  It's a relishment of God's character.  That is, after all, what this whole topic is about isn't it?  If I can lose my salvation, I can, in effect, render what God has ordained, and enacted as inept.  If that were the case, my God would be small.  Let me just say for the record - He is not.  He is infinite and worthy of praise!

I was interested in seeing the passages listed in Hebrews as support for eternal security.  One such passage I didn't see listed (though I'm getting old  ) was Hebrews 7:26-28...

"For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself. For the law appoints men in their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever."

If my sin made God's provision unaffective, then this would be an incorrect verse.  Christ must then be offered repeatedly for my sin.  His sacrifice would have been unacceptable to our holy God.  Interesting note here since Easter is coming up...Why did God raise Jesus from the dead?  As a sign of His judicial acceptance of the sacrifice Jesus made for our sin!  The judgment was death.  The result was life.  What good would a dead Savior be?  I can gladly say that my security doesn't lie in logic, or reason, but in the truth God has revealed in the Good News of His Son.

As a side bar as well, I've noted that Pilgrim has given a couple of explanations of the Hebrews 6, 10 passages.  I'll be the first to admit that I've got alot of study to do on this passage, but here's something that I've considered of late.  I personally feel that this passage is directed towards believers.  Why?  I think we tend to confuse the "judgment" and the "fiery indignation" as a direct reference to Hell.  I don't think that is what is being referred to here.  Remember that even the believer will stand before God one day and give an account of his deeds, and that those deeds of "wood, hay, and stubble" will be burned away.  I'm thinking that this is a similiar reference.  That is, the disobedient child of God may run the risk of intense judgment for their sin - but not eternal damnation by their sin.  I do believe that a believer can wilfully chose to run from God and "enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season" (Jonah - for his own selfish hatred of the Assyrian oppressors, David - for lust of Bathsheba, Annanias and Saphira - for greed and deceit)  When God choses to enact this judgment is unknown.  BTW, just as a reassurance of eternal security. When we stand before Him and are judged, the wood, hay and stubble that is burned away leaves what?  The gold, silver and precious stones!  Point being that regardless of my sin, I still have the precious gold, silver and precious stones of my Savior's blood on my life, and a sanctification of that life to go with[/b]!  Oh well, that is what I've been thinking about that part.  As for being eternally justified, sanctified, and glorified in the eyes of my God?  AMEN!!

[Allinall]

One more thing lest my good be evil spoken of...When I mentioned the wood, hay and stubble burning away, I by no means adhere to or support any concept of a pergutory.  My God will justly deal with my worthless works, but will also honor not only the good works on my part, but the best work of His Son found in my redemption.

[Boiler room]

my opinion about eternal security and OSAS is who cares.

we shouldn't be worried about whether or not we can lose our salvation.
we should live every day in worship of him.
live every day in faith.

i'm not saying if i agree with eternal security or not.
for me i have come to the point of saying it doesn't matter.
we should focus on the Lord our God.

either way, whether you believe in the OSAS or not your focus should be on the lord always.

i pray i didn't offend any one  

[nChrist]

Wow! Thanks Pilgrim and Blackeyed Peas!   Awesome job! What an encouragement!

Oklahoma Howdy to SincereHeart,

Thanks, I'm glad you received encouragement. I do believe that confidence and assurance in Jesus leads to greater joy and happiness. Confidence in self leads to disappointment and failure. I do receive great joy that JESUS PAID IT ALL, ALL TO HIM I OWE! This is the beauty and glory of the Gospel of God's Grace. God's Grace is a beautiful and GLORIOUS TRUTH!

[Ambassador4Christ]

Wow! Thanks Pilgrim and Blackeyed Peas!   Awesome job! What an encouragement!

I do receive great joy that JESUS PAID IT ALL, ALL TO HIM I OWE! This is the beauty and glory of the Gospel of God's Grace. God's Grace is a beautiful and GLORIOUS TRUTH!

AMEN!!!!!  

[nChrist]

One more thing lest my good be evil spoken of...When I mentioned the wood, hay and stubble burning away, I by no means adhere to or support any concept of a pergutory.  My God will justly deal with my worthless works, but will also honor not only the good works on my part, but the best work of His Son found in my redemption.

Oklahoma Howdy to Allinall,

Amen! All of the Glory goes to ALMIGHTY GOD.

[Petro]

Hi blackeyedpeas, suzie,

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Those who believe that one can lose their salvation also believe a gospel of salvation by works. Many of them will deny this but no matter which way you look at their doctrine it is up to the individual to live in such a way as not to lose their salvation. Therefore their salvation is based in their own works, which is condemned through out the Bible.

Eph.2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:  9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.  10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”

We are saved by grace through faith not by our own filthy works of righteousness. Good works are a result of salvation while salvation is never a result of our own works. After one has been saved by God’s grace their life will reflect the salvation they received by the good works that God will do through them.

Pilgrim

Pilgrim,

Good Post,

Emphasis, must be made on the gospel of works being another gospel, and anyone who teaches another gospel than the one taught in scripture and delivered by the Apostles, let that person be accursed as the scriptures state.

Those that teach, you can lose the free gift, and claim faith in Jesus for their salvation, deny the blood that bought them, they don;t even realize what they espouse,.

As hard as it is to state these truths concerning them, it needs to be said, to refute their untruths.

Again well put, give them the Word.

Petro

[nChrist]

Those that teach, you can lose the free gift, and claim faith in Jesus for their salvation, deny the blood that bought them, they don;t even realize what they espouse,.

Oklahoma Howdy to Petro,

It's nice to see you back on Christians Unite. It is nice to know that our trust and confidence is in Jesus, and not ourselves. One of my favorite phrases comes from a beautiful hymn, "Jesus Paid it All, All to Him I owe". My words are simple, but I say them often, "GOD SAID IT, IT'S DONE!"

In Christ.

[Ambassador4Christ]

Those that teach, you can lose the free gift, and claim faith in Jesus for their salvation, deny the blood that bought them, they don;t even realize what they espouse,.

Oklahoma Howdy to Petro,

It's nice to see you back on Christians Unite. It is nice to know that our trust and confidence is in Jesus, and not ourselves. One of my favorite phrases comes from a beautiful hymn, "Jesus Paid it All, All to Him I owe". My words are simple, but I say them often, "GOD SAID IT, IT'S DONE!"

In Christ.

DITTO  

[Petro]

Those that teach, you can lose the free gift, and claim faith in Jesus for their salvation, deny the blood that bought them, they don;t even realize what they espouse,.

Oklahoma Howdy to Petro,

It's nice to see you back on Christians Unite. It is nice to know that our trust and confidence is in Jesus, and not ourselves. One of my favorite phrases comes from a beautiful hymn, "Jesus Paid it All, All to Him I owe". My words are simple, but I say them often, "GOD SAID IT, IT'S DONE!"

In Christ.

An a howdy to you, BEP,

I say Amen to yours on the subject.

Regardless how many feel on whether this is a great truth or not, (it wouldn't change it one iota) and we should  be shouting it from the rooftops, we should not let it slip away from us, and we be believe it, because we understand the teaching of it, and we teach it, because the next generation of soldiers of the cross need to understand it; it is a fou8ndational doctrine to our faith,  because it is grounded in the truth of the Living Word of God.

Blessings,

Petro

[gusto61]

   Hello Everyone,

  I thank my God and Saviour that I am saved and on my way to Heaven!

  God sealed me "with that holy Spirit of promise, (Eph 1:13)
which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (1:14)

 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; (John 14:16)

  "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Heb 7:25)

  "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)
  "To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, (1:4)
  "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1:5)

                                     Thank You Jesus!

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Petro,

Law, self-righteousness, and works

versus

God's Love & Grace, The Blood of Jesus, Our Lord & Saviour

were hot topics of debate during the time of the Apostle Paul. I seriously doubt the debate will end in this age. I've seen several recent polls that indicate about 60% of Christians believe that Salvation is a one time and eternal event. Salvation is a gift that we didn't earn or deserve and one that we will never earn or deserve. All of the Glory goes to God and none to man. The Promise of God is ROCK SOLID. GOD SAID IT, IT'S DONE.

[Allinall]

Oklahoma Howdy to Allinall,

Amen! All of the Glory goes to ALMIGHTY GOD.

Howdy back at ya BEP!

And AMEN!!!

[Allinall]

Secure from what? Secure to what? Secure in what?
From Hell?            To sin?            In a doctrine?

Jesus was never intended to be analized and disected to the point of being a lifeless doctrine. OSAS is lifeless and vain. It tries to describe an organic union by use of letters. Jesus is not the sum total of a doctrine but is a lover of our souls, and Lord of all, and is life. Jesus is greater than doctrine. The fact that people have created creeds and doctrines is evidence of insecurity. They want something to lean on for security yet the only one who can bring security is neglected. He saved us from our sin so we would not sin but have joyful fellowship with Him. Therein lies our security. Pray for me and I for you.

39  Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40  And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

asaph  

Hello Brother!

I just wanted to say two things about your post.  For one, you seem to be at a point that I'm at right now as well in one sense.  That point being a theocentric viewpoint, rather than a theological viewpoint.  Hairsplitting?  Not really.  A theological viewpoint tends to focus on the doctrine more than the God of the doctrine, while the theocentric viewpoint keeps God at the center of all.  Doctrine, my friend, is not only necessary, but is profitable (2 Timothy 3:16)!  The danger in our world of denominational thinking is which doctrine is right, or rather, which denomination is right, rather than by faith accepting what God has taught, and in faith applying that "doctrine" to our lives.  We must not only have doctrine, but we must follow those doctrines.  But never at the expense of the God Who gives us those doctrines.  Make sense?

It is then with that point that I come to the next.  This doctrine of eternal security is not a denominational concept my friend.  It is one espoused in scripture, by the very Savior you say we should (and rightly so) focus on.  Keep that statement in mind when I ask this question - upon whom does my salvation depend?  If it depends upon me, then my works are necessary to maintain it.  If it depends upon my God, then it depends upon His work to maintain it.  I think the major difficulty people come to in this issue, is the perceived (if not blatantly exemplified) lack of obedience.  That is, "if I'm saved, then I can sin as much as I want!"  I prefer to consider Paul's assessment of this line of thinking in Romans 6:1-2

"What shall we say then?  Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?  By no means! (I prefer the KJV's "God forbid!") How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Paul goes on to relate the ineptitude of living a sinful life, when, in fact, we are dead to sin, but alive to God.  A person who loses his salvation based upon his own sinful acts must then be dead to God, but alive to his sin.  This is not what Paul is teaching!  The point is simple.  I was a sinner.  I am a sinner.  I will be a sinner until my God takes me home and glorifies me in His presence (i.e. conforms me to the image of His Son).  The only difference between me and a lost man is that I'm a sinner saved by grace!  Amen?  If so, then my sin isn't the point.  My God's grace, love, forgiveness, as well as His justice, righteousness and holiness are.  It simply comes down to a question of whether or not our focus is God-centered or man-centered.  For me, and not without great amounts of difficulty, it has become God-centered.  I trust that you too can see this, and trust in the only trustworthy Person anyone can find today.

God bless!