Stay away from IE

[Gracey]

Well, this is what I've been trying to tell people:

IE is no better than Mozilla or some other free browser.
IE has security issues (duh) as well as non-brand name
browsers. When it comes down to the mechanics of a
browser, they all suffer security problems. A browser by
any other name is still a browser. Adware/spyware/malware
coders are getting sophisticated in their programming skills
spybots are behind them in their dust. These programmers
are learning the tricks to get past how data is formatted on
a browser. For example, turning off executable downloads
from a browser does not mean person (hacker) cant run an
program with it on. They still can!

Education is the best way to deal with it, not changing your browser (although it might help for a while). Me, I'm still using IE....not because I think it's great, but because I've had very few problems that I haven't been able to handle with it, and who wants to give them the satisfaction? (I had one bad one, but it didn't come through ie and I had to reformat) But, because I got educated about security measures, and how to be careful, where to go for help if you can't fix it, I feel a little better (not safe, just better, lol).....

[Saved_4ever]

To say there is no difference in browsers in very disengenous at best.  IE does not follow standard internet coding nor render pages like they should.  Instead lazy web designers have let IE mutilate the web.  Mozilla/Firefox and Opera all use net standards for rendering.  You know those codes and rules to make things standard so everyone can play together??

Do all browsers fall victim to security holes and such?  Absolutley though there are many less with firefox/mozilla than IE and the mozilla group fixes them promptly.  Even better often times firefox will tell you, that you need to update you browser for a security fix.

Also IE is unfortunately part of the OS which makes it QUITE a bit different than firefox.

As far as feature sets, skins, extentions, etc, firefox does circles around IE.

[nChrist]

Saved_4ever,

Brother, I really appreciate your help and information. I've been using other browsers for some time, but all of them still used the IE engine.

I just downloaded Firefox and will probably take the plunge sometime today. I really didn't know there were browsers that were independent of IE. I did know one could use a non-Windows OS and use a browser much more secure, but I didn't think I was smart enough for a different OS.    It hasn't been that long ago that I graduated from DOS.

If I disappear for a day or two, you will know that I messed things up.  

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Rhys]

I used Mozilla Firebird for quite some time and liked it, though it had problems with some sites. Then I "upgraded" to Firefox. Though I like the RSS feeds in Firefox, it is not a very useful browser as it has a bug that makes it impossible to log in to most sites or to fill in forms - for sites I have to log in to, I have to revert to Firebird or IE. (I have a number of browsers on my computer to check html on my websites).

It is still necessary to have IE, both to update Windows and to log in to certain websites, like my bank, which are so poorly written they only work with IE.

Whatever browser you use, it is still necessary to have a good firewall and antivirus program, plus programs to get rid of spyware. I have ZoneAlarm Pro, Norton Antivirus, AdAware 6, and Spybot and so far have avoided major problems except for a few tracking cookies that get by when I use IE.

(I suppose having dial-up access also helps, as it makes it more difficult for people to hack my computer.)

I never used Messenger and finally disabled it, though my firewall setup blocked it from accessing the internet anyway.

Microsoft HAS been casual about security until fairly recently, but that doesn't mean other OS's are more secure - just that not enough people used them to make them attractive to hackers, virus writers, etc. That may be changing as Linux becomes more popular.

[nChrist]

Rhys,

I just installed Firefox and am taking it for my first test drive.  So far, so good.

I did see an extension (plugin) that can be used to load a web page with IE from inside Firefox. I'll get it and try it for Windows Update and let you know if it works.

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with Firefox, but I do miss some of my password utilities. The new Firefox has some ways to add custom functions, so I'm going to try with my password helper and spell-checker. If I get those working, I'll be very happy with Firefox. It is extremely fast.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Saved_4ever]

Whatever browser you use, it is still necessary to have a good firewall and antivirus program, plus programs to get rid of spyware. I have ZoneAlarm Pro, Norton Antivirus, AdAware 6, and Spybot and so far have avoided major problems except for a few tracking cookies that get by when I use IE.

Agreed, a lot of problems come from the user just "clicking away".  I yell at my mother all the time for that.  I have a hardware firewall to my network and my mothers.  This seriously helps me maintain their systems.  Even so they seem to have been pretty safe so far.

I tried zonealarm (the free version) and it was more trouble than it was worth.  Even after setting up certain rules and IP filters I still had issues with it.  I control/monitor my other PC's with UltraVNC (so I can run those desktops from my main computer often times eliminating a need for any periferals for them) and zonealarm was such a pain about it.  MS's new firewall is just as annoying with VNC too.

I wouldn't touch or recommend norton products to any one.  I have had nothing but trouble with them.  In fact 4 out of 4 times my system got all hosed just by installing their junk and only after uninstalling it and some fixing did my system come back.  I refuse to use their products.  To think people pay money for them makes me sad.    I use AVG it works better isn't a resource hog, and best of all it's free to home users.  I use adaware and SB S&D and have been for a while now.

It is still necessary to have IE, both to update Windows and to log in to certain websites, like my bank, which are so poorly written they only work with IE.

To have windows updated yes and no.  If you have SP2 on XP you can just set it up for auotupdate and then you don't need any browser at all.  The other updates most people want will bug you enough i.e. WMP and MS messenger.  Of course you can't really get rid of IE anyhow since the browser is just an extention of the window manager also called explorer.  (you should notice the process named explorer.exe in the task manager if you use win 2K or XP).  I only state all this for anyone who doesn't know.  You may know all of this.

You should write and complain to your bank.  As you have said it is poorly written and hence can not be used with other browsers.  Luckily my banks webpage works with firefox/thunderbird/firebird what ever iteration you are using.

As far as stopping cookies even in IE you can disable them to "ask for every one".  I block any cookie I don't want or know where it comes from.  OF course you need to be sort of savvy to use this option as I have had to fix several accidental cookie blocks for my mother.  I haven't had a tracking cookie I didn't want since I started blocking cookies 2 years ago or so.  It's a pain at first but once you get your list setup you almost don't notice it, unless of course you visit new sites all the time.  It's veryy telling though of just how much junk a website trys to dump on your PC.

Though I like the RSS feeds in Firefox, it is not a very useful browser as it has a bug that makes it impossible to log in to most sites or to fill in forms - for sites I have to log in to, I have to revert to Firebird or IE.

I think you just don't have certain settings coorectly setup.  I have been using Firefox since the .6 version of then named thunderbird over two years ago.  I only use IE when I have no choice which is almost never.  Firefox has and still keeps me logged into every website I personally use.  This includes obviously CU.  As far as forms I believe that's an option you need to set.  I did it so long ago though it just keeps following me with every new version.  A great thing about firefox is it keeps your settings and bookmarks separate so even if you uninstall and reinstall your bookmarks are still there.

If you go to the menu and use tools --> options and then click on the privacy tab you will see a section for "saved form information" and another for "saved passwords".  You can then tick the box and it saves any form and search info you have typed in.  It can also be cleared by using the clear button.

It works all the time for me.  In fact, when I fill out certain forms, I just hit the down arrow and it takes but a few seconds to fill out forms.  You don't even have to type any letters.  It's a beautiful thing.    

You guys should give me some examples of what doesn't work.  Maybe I can help.

[Saved_4ever]

Microsoft HAS been casual about security until fairly recently, but that doesn't mean other OS's are more secure - just that not enough people used them to make them attractive to hackers, virus writers, etc. That may be changing as Linux becomes more popular.

Actually yes they are for two reasons.  When there is a hole they fix it ASAP (ie linux and MAC) and secondly the whole nature of how the OS is run.  For all intent and purposes windows is always run as "root" or with administrative privlegdes.  Linux is not, by default you are run as just a user and are asked for a passwrod to install anything or even change things as simple as the system clock.  Windows would be much better just by following that example.  People are too lazy to log off and sign on again as an admin just to install a program.  They just "can't be bothered with such things".  I do agree though that as linux gains popularity that viruses will become more of a problem.

I'm not a linux nut, in fact for now I still use XP Pro as my main desktop but I do have a few linux distro's that I play with every so often.

[nChrist]

Saved_4ever,

Brother, thanks for the information on Firefox. I've now been using it for a total of about 5 hours. You really helped with the form (password) information. I think that I can figure that out now.

I set Firefox to run completely separate on my system. I also didn't know about the cookie configuration options. I think that I'm getting happier by the moment with Firefox. I still have the old fashioned dial-up services, and Firefox is much faster than the several browsers I used that depended on IE.

I'm an old guy trying to learn new tricks.    Thanks for the help.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Shammu]

Saved_4ever,

Brother, thanks for the information on Firefox. I've now been using it for a total of about 5 hours. You really helped with the form (password) information. I think that I can figure that out now.

I set Firefox to run completely separate on my system. I also didn't know about the cookie configuration options. I think that I'm getting happier by the moment with Firefox. I still have the old fashioned dial-up services, and Firefox is much faster than the several browsers I used that depended on IE.

I'm an old guy trying to learn new tricks.    Thanks for the help.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Brother, if you click on view go to text size you can increase, decrease the text size. That is if your eyes are like mine. The one thing I love about Mozilla Foxfire, I can open several tabs, in the same window.

[Saved_4ever]

Saved_4ever,

Brother, thanks for the information on Firefox. I've now been using it for a total of about 5 hours. You really helped with the form (password) information. I think that I can figure that out now.

I set Firefox to run completely separate on my system. I also didn't know about the cookie configuration options. I think that I'm getting happier by the moment with Firefox. I still have the old fashioned dial-up services, and Firefox is much faster than the several browsers I used that depended on IE.

I'm an old guy trying to learn new tricks.    Thanks for the help.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Brother, if you click on view go to text size you can increase, decrease the text size. That is if your eyes are like mine. The one thing I love about Mozilla Foxfire, I can open several tabs, in the same window.

Tabbed browsing is like a gift from God for those of us that have several web pages open.  

If you really want to change your font sizes use control + to make it bigger or control - to make it smaller.    Much better than using the toolbar.  My mom likes that feature.  She is getting very blind.  She's not even really old yet only 47.  

[nChrist]

DreamWeaver & Saved_4ever,

Thanks brothers!

I am a member of the bifocal crowd, and I just enlarged the text in Firefox. WOW! - this is nice. I can lean back in my chair and still read the screen.

I downloaded a bunch of help information on Firefox, but I haven't had a chance to print it out yet. I'll probably make myself a cheat sheet on the features I want to use. I would say that most of it is really pretty easy, once you start trying a few things.

Now, I just need to find a spell-checker to use on the forum.  If not, people are going to find out pretty quickly that I don't spell very well.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Rhys]

saved_4ever

I think you just don't have certain settings correctly setup.  I have been using Firefox since the .6 version of then named thunderbird over two years ago.  I only use IE when I have no choice which is almost never.  Firefox has and still keeps me logged into every website I personally use.  This includes obviously CU.  As far as forms I believe that's an option you need to set.  I did it so long ago though it just keeps following me with every new version.  A great thing about firefox is it keeps your settings and bookmarks separate so even if you uninstall and reinstall your bookmarks are still there.

If you go to the menu and use tools --> options and then click on the privacy tab you will see a section for "saved form information" and another for "saved passwords".  You can then tick the box and it saves any form and search info you have typed in.  It can also be cleared by using the clear button.

It works all the time for me.  In fact, when I fill out certain forms, I just hit the down arrow and it takes but a few seconds to fill out forms.  You don't even have to type any letters.  It's a beautiful thing.  

You guys should give me some examples of what doesn't work.  Maybe I can help.

Here is an example:
http://login.yahoo.com/config/login?.src=geo&.intl=us&.done=http%3a//geocities.yahoo.com/

When I enter my username and password to sign in to Geocities all I get with Firefox is the same sign in box over and over - it obviously isn't transmitting the entered information to the server, or not doing it correctly. No other browser I have has this problem, and I am not the only one who has experienced it with Firefox, from comments I have read.

Firefox also doesn't work with several other sites I have to sign in to, (WorldNetDaily for one) but not all sites. It didn't work with CU until CU brought up a line at the bottom of a page I could sign in on - that worked.

As far as forms goes, it has much the same problem, just bringing up the form box again blank after supposedly submitting it. Once I got the form back with all of the info I had entered on all the lines crammed into the last line.

Incidentally Firefox brings up this line at the top of this page ( CU)
: 616) { moveToAbsolute((innerWidth-616)/2,layer1.pageY)};">

which other browsers don't, but that may be an error in the webpage, not the browser.

[Shammu]

I had no problem, with your example. Though I had to type my password in, it remembered my user name.

[Saved_4ever]

I can't try out geocities because I am not a member there but it sounds like a cookie issue to me.  

The same would go for your forms.  If you accidentally blocked cookies from a site your info won't work.  Otherwise you may want to do a fresh install (wipe out everything related to firefox) or check your settings on things.  I don't need IE for anything but windows update right now.  Actually my main PC is broken and I am using firefox with linux right now.  No problems with forms, ordering or even having my username and pass kept here on CU.  I also don't see the line of bad code in windows or linux.

[nChrist]

Rhys,

Brother, I'm new to Firefox, but I'm having no problem at all in using the password function to log in to Christians Unite.

I'm wondering if you imported Internet Explorer settings when you installed Firefox. I wonder if a clean install of Firefox would solve your problem.

Love In Christ,
Tom