The Lord's Church is NOT an Organization

[unworthy servant]

I will take offense, however, at ANYONE who seems to feel superior in faith to myself because they "meet in someone's home" instead of a church building. Nor do I claim to be the most spiritually mature, however, arrogance over this matter is uncalled for. There is nothing wrong with holding church in a larger building. Praise the Lord that some places NEED larger buildings to accomadate all those who are seeking or being spiritually fed! And the fact of the matter is, no matter where you go in the USA there will be taxes. Property taxes, etc. Do you think the Lord cares if the church gets good enough treatment from the government today as to be able to avoid some of these taxes? Why not look upon this as a blessing. People, in America, have the privilege now of going to church and, as of now at least, the government supports it.

***First, please show me where anyone said meeting in a large building was bad.  However, spending God's money to make a "Crystal Cathedral", the "Vatican/Palace" at Rome, or any other smaller version in the multimilion dollar building price range.  That is nothing more than idol worship.

Second, the Scriptures indicate God is the head of Christ and Christ the head of the church.  No where does it say to make Caesar the head of Christ.  The pharisees thought is was good to allow the Romans to run thier synaguouge.

Joh 11:48 - "If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation."

However, the Christians did not allow the Pharisees to rule (to be the head) of the body of Christ.

Acts 5:29 But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.

I agree with the statement as well, that Christ's church is not an organization. It is an organism.

***And a human body is not organized?  I see a pair of legs that are organized with the feet, knees and hips.  I see a pairs of arms, organized with elbows and hands.  Pretty wonderfully organized to me.  I don't know what the Psalmist would be boasting about if one hand connected to the ankle.

Ps 139:14 - I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well.

[hyeguy03]

Ummm not too sure whether "unworthy servant" here is opposing or supporting me. At any rate, I agree with everything that is said in unworthy's post. Please know that it is not MY view that it is bad to meet in a large building. The entire point I was making with that is, when a group meets in a larger building there needs to be some sort of governing body over the upkeep. Thank you for citing Scripture. I was pressed or time earlier and was unable to break out my Bible. I hope there was no misunderstanding of anything I said. It seems like we agree. Please have a great day. ---Mike

[unworthy servant]

When the body of Christ had a need for "maintainance" in the body, they didn't run to the pharisees nor to the romans to ask them to be the head of Christ so they could elect a board (of directors) to resolve the problem.  Instead, the righteous pulled righteous men from the congregation to resolve the problem.

Acts 6:3-5 "Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task.  "But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."  The statement found approval with the whole congregation;  and they chose Stephen,  a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas,  a proselyte from Antioch.

[ebia]

And when they had a bigger despute to resolve, they took it back to the council of Jerusalem.

And your point is?

[unworthy servant]

ebia asked "And your point is?"

If you chose to be a slave of Caesar that is your choice . . .

Ro 6:16 - Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

However, the apostles and I were bought with a price:

1Co 7:23 - You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men.

That is why we imitate the true Master:

Joh 10:27 - "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

[ebia]

What on earth are you on about?

You're very quick with your bible quotes, but you haven't stopped to explain what argument you are making.

[unworthy servant]

ebia stated "What on earth are you on about? You're very quick with your bible quotes, but you haven't stopped to explain what argument you are making."

Well, it should be very clear, but some people in the Scriptures had real problems with their eyes, ears, and understanding, so I will be clear.

Many chose to obey man over God and few chose to obey God over man.
I count mysellf with the few, Why don't you?

Acts 5:29 But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.

[Symphony]

I think it's great you're clear, unworthy.  It's nice to have everything all figured out and all your cyphers neatly in a row.


How old are you, anyway, about sixteen?


   

[Tibby]

Well, you know kids are getting a lot smarter now a days

[ebia]

Well, you know kids are getting a lot smarter now a days

They are?

On the other hand, I expect more sense from my year 7's (12 year olds) than this guy seems capable of.

[The Crusader]

In the present dispensation there is only one true Church, which is called the Body of Christ (I Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:22, 23; 3:1-6) separate and distinct from the prophesied, earthly king­dom of Christ. The historical manifestation of the Body of Christ began with the Apostle Paul before he wrote his first epistle (I Thes. 2:14-16 cf. ; Phil. 1:5, 6 cf. Acts 16; I Cor. 12:13, 27 cf. Acts 18).

Your friend and brother

The Crusader
<))><

[nChrist]

In the present dispensation there is only one true Church, which is called the Body of Christ (I Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:22, 23; 3:1-6) separate and distinct from the prophesied, earthly king­dom of Christ. The historical manifestation of the Body of Christ began with the Apostle Paul before he wrote his first epistle (I Thes. 2:14-16 cf. ; Phil. 1:5, 6 cf. Acts 16; I Cor. 12:13, 27 cf. Acts 18).

Your friend and brother

The Crusader
<))><

Oklahoma Howdy to The Crusader,

AMEN BROTHER!

This seems to be a very difficult topic for some to understand for whatever reason. This is a CHURCH not built with human hands, and IT IS ETERNAL with CHRIST AS THE HEAD. There isn't any brick or mortar, pews, and there certainly isn't any of man's denominational tags and labels. It doesn't have a tax status, it isn't a corporation, it isn't an organization, and it answers to no man. The members who are still physically alive go to brick and mortar buildings called churches (with a little "c"). "churches" are in many ways accountable to men, but THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST is accountable ONLY TO GOD. The brick and mortar churches of man, regardless of size or splendor, are ugly as mud fences and NOTHING in comparison to THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST.

There is grief, crime, corruption, sorrow, and lies in man's brick and mortar churches, hopefully along with a healthy dose of truth, worhip of Almighty God, and joy for those who belong to Christ. There is nothing but glory, truth, peace, joy, comfort, and worship in the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST.

I can't understand why many people have no clue what THE REAL CHURCH, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST is. There is NO real church made with brick and mortar, and GOD could care less how big it is, how fancy it is, how many people go there, and certainly not any of man's names they might put over the door.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[The Crusader]

In the present dispensation there is only one true Church, which is called the Body of Christ (I Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:22, 23; 3:1-6) separate and distinct from the prophesied, earthly king­dom of Christ. The historical manifestation of the Body of Christ began with the Apostle Paul before he wrote his first epistle (I Thes. 2:14-16 cf. ; Phil. 1:5, 6 cf. Acts 16; I Cor. 12:13, 27 cf. Acts 18).

Your friend and brother

The Crusader
<))><

Oklahoma Howdy to The Crusader,

AMEN BROTHER!

This seems to be a very difficult topic for some to understand for whatever reason. This is a CHURCH not built with human hands, and IT IS ETERNAL with CHRIST AS THE HEAD. There isn't any brick or mortar, pews, and there certainly isn't any of man's denominational tags and labels. It doesn't have a tax status, it isn't a corporation, it isn't an organization, and it answers to no man. The members who are still physically alive go to brick and mortar buildings called churches (with a little "c"). "churches" are in many ways accountable to men, but THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST is accountable ONLY TO GOD. The brick and mortar churches of man, regardless of size or splendor, are ugly as mud fences and NOTHING in comparison to THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST.

There is grief, crime, corruption, sorrow, and lies in man's brick and mortar churches, hopefully along with a healthy dose of truth, worhip of Almighty God, and joy for those who belong to Christ. There is nothing but glory, truth, peace, joy, comfort, and worship in the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST.

I can't understand why many people have no clue what THE REAL CHURCH, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST is. There is NO real church made with brick and mortar, and GOD could care less how big it is, how fancy it is, how many people go there, and certainly not any of man's names they might put over the door.

Love In Christ,
Tom

blackeyedpeas, once again I agree with you 100%.
I also believe this would be a good tract.

Thanks Brother

The Crusader
<))><

[sincereheart]

Acts 17:24 "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.

Habakkuk 2:18 "Of what value is an idol, since a man has carved it? Or an image that teaches lies?
For he who makes it trusts in his own creation;
he makes idols that cannot speak.
19 Woe to him who says to wood, 'Come to life!'
Or to lifeless stone, 'Wake up!'
Can it give guidance?
It is covered with gold and silver;
there is no breath in it.
20 But the LORD is in his holy temple;
let all the earth be silent before him."

Ephesians 2:19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.

Luke 21:5 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6 "As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down."

1 Peter 2:4 As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him-- 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:
   "See, I lay a stone in Zion,
       a chosen and precious cornerstone,
   and the one who trusts in him
       will never be put to shame."

1 Peter 2:7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
   "The stone the builders rejected
       has become the capstone," 8 and,
   "A stone that causes men to stumble
       and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

[aw]

Right and the bottom line is that the church is synonymous with PEOPLE and not denominations, names, buildings, theologies, or any organization. There is NO distinction- neithe Jew, nor Greek, male or female, slave or free, baptist or methodist, charismatis or pentecostal, tongue talker or non- tongue talker, and black or white.

aw