Historical Facts On Record Concerning Popes.

[Tibby]

Perhaps he just likes to defend the truth. Or he doesn’t like trolls attacking the belief system of Brothers in Christ. Personally, I think you need to spend less time talking about Whores and more time talking about Christ. Why not let Christianity be the foundation of your belief, instead of anti-catholicism?

[creationist]

The 10 commandments are listed differently by Catholics than by Protestants.
Ex 20:3-17:
1. No other gods (v3).
2. No idols (v4-6).
3. Not take His name in vain (v7).
4. Remember the Sabbath (v8-11).
5. Honor father and mother (v12).
6. Not murder (v13).
7. Not commit adultery (v14).
8. Not steal (v15).
9. Not bear false witness (v16).
10. Not covet (v17).


1. No other gods
2. Not take His name in vain
3. Remember the Sabbath (
4. Honor father and mother
5. Not murder
6. Not commit adultery
7. Not steal
8. Not bear false witness  
9. Not covet neighbour’s goods
10, Not covet neighbour’s wife

Why did the whore remove commandment No 2 (Idols) and split commandment No 10 in two?

[Ambassador4Christ]

The 10 commandments are listed differently by Catholics than by Protestants.
Ex 20:3-17:
1. No other gods (v3).
2. No idols (v4-6).
3. Not take His name in vain (v7).
4. Remember the Sabbath (v8-11).
5. Honor father and mother (v12).
6. Not murder (v13).
7. Not commit adultery (v14).
8. Not steal (v15).
9. Not bear false witness (v16).
10. Not covet (v17).


1. No other gods
2. Not take His name in vain
3. Remember the Sabbath (
4. Honor father and mother
5. Not murder
6. Not commit adultery
7. Not steal
8. Not bear false witness  
9. Not covet neighbour’s goods
10, Not covet neighbour’s wife

Why did the whore remove commandment No 2 (Idols) and split commandment No 10 in two?

Ask Tibby, he is also one of them.

[Tibby]

The Catecism spends the most time on the first one, because the Commantments you define as the first 2 are combined. If you look it up, you would know Section IV of the Chapter on the 10 Commandments is titled "You shall not make for yourself a Graven Image." You can look it up. Passages 2129-2132, all about not making idols.

Also, I am not Roman. I'm Greek

[creationist]

Ahh! yiasou patrioti.
I'm Greek too.
Fortunately I woke up one morning and became a Bible believing Christian who no longer worshiped icons and saints and took the Bible literally for what it has to say.
Unlike the Orthodox, I no longer believe that unbaptised infants go to Heaven blind and many other fairytales the Orthodox Church teaches.
BTW. Why do the Orthodox and Catholics call their Priests, Fathers (Matther23: 9  And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.) ?

[Tibby]

I was just making a lame joke. I’m Catholic, but not Roman. But I find nothing wrong with the Orthodox way. If you worshiped idols to start with, that is a personal problem, not the Churches problem.

He have been thru the father debate only a few weeks back. We gave a perfectly good answer why. It was several pages long, in the Apologetics board. Now, some decided not to except it, but you can find the post, and read for your self, and make up your own mind I don’t feel like getting into that mess again.

[michael_legna]

The 10 commandments are listed differently by Catholics than by Protestants.
Ex 20:3-17:
1. No other gods (v3).
2. No idols (v4-6).
3. Not take His name in vain (v7).
4. Remember the Sabbath (v8-11).
5. Honor father and mother (v12).
6. Not murder (v13).
7. Not commit adultery (v14).
8. Not steal (v15).
9. Not bear false witness (v16).
10. Not covet (v17).


1. No other gods
2. Not take His name in vain
3. Remember the Sabbath (
4. Honor father and mother
5. Not murder
6. Not commit adultery
7. Not steal
8. Not bear false witness  
9. Not covet neighbour’s goods
10, Not covet neighbour’s wife

Why did the whore remove commandment No 2 (Idols) and split commandment No 10 in two?

What is your source for these so called commandments of the Catholic Church - some biased anti-Catholic site most likely since they are not the ones listed in the Official Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Don't you see when you accept this type of thing without researching it you are falling for lies.  It makes you look dumb and worse it spreads hatred.  Stop believing everything you read on the internet.

[creationist]

Michael.
Firstly you must be Catholic and secondly you must think we are all STUPID!
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to check it out. Just get your hands on a catholic Bible (You know the one? The one with all the extra [Apocryphal] books).and look up Ex 20:3-17

[Pilgrim]

Even Catholic authorities teach that the RCC is the whore of Babylon.

THE BOOK OF DESTINY  
Page 383

VII. THE GREAT HARLOT AND THE BEAST


1. DESCRIPTION OF BABYLON, The GREAT HARLOT.


Chapter XVII.

Verses 1-6.
Verses 1 and 2

   The condemnation of Great Babylon is so important that it calls for a special treatise. One of the angels, probably the one who poured out the seventh bowl, reveals her destiny to the Seer enabling him to give a graphic description of her judgment. His word invites St. John to his direction so that he might witness the execution of the judgment from a favorable view point. Her annihilation is decreed.
   A harlot is given to fornication. Ezechiel (XXIII.) calls Israel and Juda harlots, because they practiced the idolatry of the pagan nations bordering on Israel. Fornication and adultery in prophetical language mean apostasy from the true faith and from God. Hence this GREAT harlot is a city whose apostasy from the true faith is a monstrous thing. This may point to Rome. Rome is the Holy city of Christ, the center of His eternal kingdom, as Jerusalem was the center of theocracy. And the apostasy of this city, and her becoming the head of an empire that would lead all possible nations and peoples into antichrist-worship would indeed merit for her the title of THE GREAT HARLOT. The apostles called ancient Rome “Babylon” 1 Peter V. 13). So the conclusion is near that the great harlot of the future shall be Rome. However, in this narration, St. John uses ancient pagan Rome as the model for his portrait of Babylon of the future. And whichever city it shall be, it will obviously be one that was once entirely Catholic, apostatized from the true faith and became the capital of the kingdom that leads all nations into Antichrist-worship.


   THE BOOK OF DESTINY   403

   The name of the city is not given, but verse one, “the great harlot”, which means the great apostate, and verse five, “Babylon, the mother of fornications”, again the great apostate, point to Rome as the city spoken of. Rome has been the center and headquarters of the messianic kingdom throughout New Testament times. If that city should apostatize and become the center of all antichristian activity, it would merit the titles of adulteress and harlot given to Jerusalem by the prophets for its apostasy from God and its practice of idolatry and superstition.
   This chapter refutes the whole contention that the “beast” is the emperor of Rome, Nero or Domitian.. The empire procured worship for the emperor. In that way the empire would be the false prophet, who shall he cast alive into the pool of fire (XIX. 20). Again the horns lend their power to the beast to destroy the city. Neither an emperor or the empire ever did or desired this. The beast shall be cast alive into the pool of fire, hence it could not be the empire; only the emperor could be thus punished. And there is no record of any emperor having been seized alive and visibly hurled into hell. It is therefore plainly absurd to apply this chapter to Roman times, if anyone expects a reasonable explanation for it. It plainly concerns itself with an unfulfilled prophecy that is waiting for the time appointed by almighty God.


394   THE BOOK OF DESTINY

   The seven heads represent mountains which again mean kings and in turn symbolize dynasties or empires. The mountains allude to the seven hills upon which ancient Rome was built but are symbols of kings and kingdoms.

It’s amazing how Catholics condemn Dave hunt and Hislop when your own teaches say the same thing.

[Tibby]

Michael.
Firstly you must be Catholic and secondly you must think we are all STUPID!
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to check it out. Just get your hands on a catholic Bible (You know the one? The one with all the extra [Apocryphal] books).and look up Ex 20:3-17

Clearly, you have not done this. As Catholics, it comes as no surprise we happen to have alteast one copy of the "Catholic" bible laying around. I happened to grab the St. Joseph Edition of the the New American bible, and looked up the verses you said, knowing just what I would find. Exodus 20:

3. You shall not have other Gods desides me
4. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the Earth
5. You shall not bow down before them for worship them.

As you see, if you had bothered to take your own advice and LOOK IT UP, you would know what the Catholic Bible says, and not looked silly. It isn't rocket science.

Oh Pilgrim, Pilgrim, do you read these things before you copy and paste them? If you had, you might have understood what Fr Kramer was trying to tell you.

[creationist]

 Forgive me. I was incorrect about the Bible thing. It was the Catholic Catechism that is writen as the ten Commandments and is often mistaken for them. See bellow





The Catholic Bible:
1. You shall not have any other gods beside me.

2. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them.

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain.

4. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.

5. Honor your father and mother.

6. You shall not kill.

7. You shall not commit adultery.

8. You shall not steal.

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ass, nor anything else that belongs to him.

(Exodus 20:4-17, The New American Bible)





  The Catholic Catechism:
1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.

2. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain.

3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.

4. Honor your father and your mother.

5. You shall not kill.

6. You shall not commit adultery.

7. You shall not steal.

8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.

10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.

(The Teaching Of Christ, A Catholic Catechism For Adults, pg. 276)
 


The Catholic Bible prohibits the making of idols. It also prohibits bowing down before these images. Why would Catholic leaders leave this commandment out of their Catechism?
Could it be because their practice does not follow their Bible? The Second General Council of Nicea (787 a.d.) approved the veneration of icons and statues.
 

[michael_legna]

Michael.
Firstly you must be Catholic and secondly you must think we are all STUPID!
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to check it out. Just get your hands on a catholic Bible (You know the one? The one with all the extra [Apocryphal] books).and look up Ex 20:3-17

I have one (actually I have 4 different Catholic translations, and 6 different Protestant translations) and they all contain exactly the same verses and text.

So if you think differently you need to provide a quote from this so called Catholic Bible you claim doesn't have the Ten Commandments as you say.

[michael_legna]

Forgive me. I was incorrect about the Bible thing. It was the Catholic Catechism that is writen as the ten Commandments and is often mistaken for them. See bellow





The Catholic Bible:
1. You shall not have any other gods beside me.

2. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them.

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain.

4. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.

5. Honor your father and mother.

6. You shall not kill.

7. You shall not commit adultery.

8. You shall not steal.

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ass, nor anything else that belongs to him.

(Exodus 20:4-17, The New American Bible)





  The Catholic Catechism:
1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.

2. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain.

3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.

4. Honor your father and your mother.

5. You shall not kill.

6. You shall not commit adultery.

7. You shall not steal.

8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.

10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.

(The Teaching Of Christ, A Catholic Catechism For Adults, pg. 276)
 


The Catholic Bible prohibits the making of idols. It also prohibits bowing down before these images. Why would Catholic leaders leave this commandment out of their Catechism?
Could it be because their practice does not follow their Bible? The Second General Council of Nicea (787 a.d.) approved the veneration of icons and statues.
 

What Catechism were you getting this from?  Clearly not the official Catechism, probably some childrens simplified catechism.

Here is what the official catechism states in regards to the ten commandments.

First just after paragraph 2051 it quotes from the Bible directly as follows;

The Ten Commandments

Exodus 20 2-17
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image,
or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your manservant, or your maidservant or your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.

Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you.

You shall not kill.

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's.

Deuteronomy 5:6-21
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

You shall have no other gods before me . . .

You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain . . .

Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy. . .

Honor your father and your mother . . .

You shall not kill.

Neither shall you commit adultery.

Neither shall you steal.

Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor.

Neither shall you covet your neighbor's wife . . .  You shall not desire . . . anything that is your neighbor's.

Later it explains the difference in numbering in paragraph 2066

2066 The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. The present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by St. Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the Lutheran confessions. The Greek Fathers worked out a slightly different division, which is found in the Orthodox Churches and Reformed communities.

I think the part that you are refering to is based on the following:

A Traditional Catechetical Formula
1. I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.

2. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

3. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day.

4. Honor your father and your mother.

5. You shall not kill.

6. You shall not commit adultery.

7. You shall not steal.

8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.

10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.

But this is just a quick summary for use by catechists to help them learn basics of the the commandments.  The Catholic Church has never removed any of the commandments.  This is just a lie told by some Protestants in their hatred of the Catholic Church to make their position seem stronger.

[michael_legna]

Even Catholic authorities teach that the RCC is the whore of Babylon.
It’s amazing how Catholics condemn Dave hunt and Hislop when your own teaches say the same thing.

You know Kramer is not teaching that because you tried this in another post and I showed you how you were mistaken there too.

Kramer is saying that there is the possibility that there will be a religious body in Rome that could fulfill the endtimes symbolism of the woman on the beast.  He never says nor did he believe it would be the Catholic Church.  So no the Church's own teaching nor even that of one of its theologians (which is not anything like the official church's teachings) teach that the Church is the Whore of Babylon.

That is just your purposely misrepresented interpretation to support your hatred for the Church.

[Tibby]

The Catholic Bible prohibits the making of idols. It also prohibits bowing down before these images. Why would Catholic leaders leave this commandment out of their Catechism?

Well, I think I already answered this. They DO address the issue of idols a breath after they finish the part about worshiping other Gods. I even left the passage numbers for you to look up. Nothing was left out, they just covered them in the same area, one right after the other.