Historical Facts On Record Concerning Popes.

[Pilgrim]

Even Catholic authorities teach that the RCC is the whore of Babylon.
It’s amazing how Catholics condemn Dave hunt and Hislop when your own teaches say the same thing.

You know Kramer is not teaching that because you tried this in another post and I showed you how you were mistaken there too.

Kramer is saying that there is the possibility that there will be a religious body in Rome that could fulfill the endtimes symbolism of the woman on the beast.  He never says nor did he believe it would be the Catholic Church.  So no the Church's own teaching nor even that of one of its theologians (which is not anything like the official church's teachings) teach that the Church is the Whore of Babylon.

That is just your purposely misrepresented interpretation to support your hatred for the Church.

Wrong! once again Michael.

"And whichever city it shall be, it will obviously be one that was once entirely Catholic, apostatized from the true faith and became the capital of the kingdom that leads all nations into Antichrist-worship."

[michael_legna]

Even Catholic authorities teach that the RCC is the whore of Babylon.
It’s amazing how Catholics condemn Dave hunt and Hislop when your own teaches say the same thing.

You know Kramer is not teaching that because you tried this in another post and I showed you how you were mistaken there too.

Kramer is saying that there is the possibility that there will be a religious body in Rome that could fulfill the endtimes symbolism of the woman on the beast.  He never says nor did he believe it would be the Catholic Church.  So no the Church's own teaching nor even that of one of its theologians (which is not anything like the official church's teachings) teach that the Church is the Whore of Babylon.

That is just your purposely misrepresented interpretation to support your hatred for the Church.

Wrong! once again Michael.

"And whichever city it shall be, it will obviously be one that was once entirely Catholic, apostatized from the true faith and became the capital of the kingdom that leads all nations into Antichrist-worship."

Yes but you don't understand that when Kramer is saying apostatized from the true faith he means apostatized from the true Catholic Church since he sees them as one and the same.  So the religious body he proposes to be in Rome at the time is not the Catholic Church but a fallen away group of dissenters who have through force driven the true Church into exhile.

If you had studied any of the Catholic Saints visions of the end times you would know where Kramer is coming from, that the true Catholic Church will go into exhile and be persecuted (most likely once again by Protestant who harbor a hatred for what they think the Church teaches rather than for what it really teaches).  

The body that remains in Rome will not be the true Catholic Church and Kramer is not teaching that it is and neither does the Church itself.  That is how they differ from Hislop and Hunt, who are not criticized for their position but for their sloppy scholarship.

[Tibby]

I want you to think about what you are staying, Pilgrim. You are saying that the Catholic church willing admits it is evil, and will cause the downfall of civilization. Think about that. For what logically purpose would the church need to say it is the Anti-Christ? You are saying Kramer+ is saying ”The Church that I work for and that I believe is the correct church of Jesus is also Babylon and will derisory the world in a Left Behind fashion.”

[Pilgrim]

And you say the gates of hell will not prevail against the RCC! Yet, if an apostate church rules the catholic people in place of the RCC (which is a false church) then the gates of hell have surly prevailed by your own admission.

[Pilgrim]

”The Church that I work for and that I believe is the correct church of Jesus"

Now don't start blamimg me for your lack of common sense.

[creationist]

The following is a list of Saints called upon for special purposes (Reprinted from Orthodox Family Life. Volume 3, Issue 3. Spring 1998):

Do the Catholics have something similarto the Orthodox??LOL!

To Have a Child
St. Anna, Mother of the Theotokos
St. Elizabeth, Mother of the Forerunner
St. Sabbas the Sanctified of Palestine
St. Irene Chrysovolantou

For Safe Childbirth
St. Eleftherios

For the Care & Protection of Infants
St. Stylianos

For Young People
Holy Great Martyr Demetrios the Wonderworker

Delivery from Sudden Death
St. Barbara the Great Martyr

Against Drinking
Holy Martyr Boniface & the Righteous Aglais

For Travelers
St. Nicholas: in general, & specifically for sea travel
St. John the Russian: for transport, auto, busses
St. Niphon, Patriarch of Constantinople: for safety at sea

For Cobblers
St. Eustathius the Cobbler of Georgia

For Physicians
St. Panteleimon
The Holy Unmercenaries, Saints Cosmas & Damian
For the Kitchen, Home
St. Euphrosynos the Cook
St. Sergius of Radonezh: for baking
Sts. Spyridon & Nikodim of Kievo-Pechersk: Prosphora making

For Trading
St. Paraskeva

For Headaches
Holy New Martyr Demas of Smyrna

For Eyes
St. Paraskeva

For Ears
St. Spyridon the Wonderworker

For Teeth
St. Antipas of Pergamum

For Hernias & Intestinal Disorders
Holy Great Martyr Artemius
St. Artemius of Verkola

For Throat
St. Blaise of Sebastia

For Finding Employment
St. Xenia of St. Petersburg

For Help in Studies
The Three Hierarchs:
St. Basil the Great, St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory the Theologian
St. Sergius of Radonezh
St. John of Kronstadt
St. Justin the Philosopher

For Church-Chanting
St. Romanos the Melodist

For Iconographers
St. Luke the Apostle and Evangelist
St. John of Damascus

For Patient Endurance of Affliction
St. Job the Much-Suffering
Holy Forty Martyrs of Sebastia: especially in freezing cold weather
Holy Forty-Two Martyrs of Amorion

For Protection Against Thieves
St. Gregory the Wonderworker of Kievo-Pechersk

For Stone-workers
Holy Martyrs Florus & Laurus

For Soldiers
Holy Archangel Michael
St. George the Great Martyr
St. Barbara the Great Martyr

For Spiritual Help, Consolation & Compunction
St. Ephraim the Syrian
St. Alexis the Man of God
St. Seraphim of Sarov

For a Good End to One's Life
Holy Archangel Michael
St. Niphon, Patriarch of Constantinople

For Captives and Court Cases
St. Onouphrios the Great
St. Peter of Athos
St. George the Great Martyr

For Help in Distress, Poverty, Etc.
St. Nicholas the Wonderworker
St. John the Almsgiver of Alexandria
St. John of Kronstadt

For Finding Things
St. Phanourios the Great Martyr
St. Menas the Great Martyr of Egypt

For Meeting a Difficult Situation, an Interview, Etc.
St. David the Prophet, Psalmist & King
The Holy Unmercenaries & Healers
SS. Cosmas & Damian of Rome
SS. Panteleimon & Hermolaus
St. Julian the Martyr
St. John of Kronstadt
St. Nectarios of Aegina
Holy Archangel Raphael

For Animals & Livestock
St. George: cattle & herds
St. Parthenius of Radovysdius: cattle
SS. Spevsippus, Elesippus & Melevsippus: horses
St. Tryphon: geese

For Protection of Crops from Pests
St. Michael of Synnada

For the Protection of Gardens Against Pests
Holy Great Martyr Tryphon: also for hunters and Patron of Moscow

Against Demons & Witchcraft
SS. Cyprian & Justina
St. Theodore Sykeote
St. Mitrophan of Voronezh

For Chastity & Help in Carnal Warfare
St. John the Forerunner
St. Demetrios the Great Martyr
St. John the Much-Suffering
Holy Martyr Theodore the Byzantine
Holy Martyr Ignatios of Athos
St. Mary of Egypt
St. Joseph the All-Comely
St. Susanna [Old Testament]

For Mental Disorders
St. Naum of Ochrid
St. Anastasia
St. Gerasimos of Cephalonia: the possessed

Against Plague
St. Haralambos
St. Marina the Great Martyr

For Help Against Quick-Temper & Despondency
St. Tikhon of Zadonsk

For Workers in Hospitals
Holy Unmercenaries Saints Cosmas & Damian
St. Dositheus, Disciple of Abba Dorotheus

For Guilelessness & Simplicity
Holy Apostle Nathaniel & St. Paul the Simple

[Pilgrim]

The following is a list of Saints called upon for special purposes (Reprinted from Orthodox Family Life. Volume 3, Issue 3. Spring 1998):

Do the Catholics have something similarto the Orthodox??LOL!

To Have a Child
St. Anna, Mother of the Theotokos
St. Elizabeth, Mother of the Forerunner
St. Sabbas the Sanctified of Palestine
St. Irene Chrysovolantou

For Safe Childbirth
St. Eleftherios

For the Care & Protection of Infants
St. Stylianos

For Young People
Holy Great Martyr Demetrios the Wonderworker

Delivery from Sudden Death
St. Barbara the Great Martyr

Against Drinking
Holy Martyr Boniface & the Righteous Aglais

For Travelers
St. Nicholas: in general, & specifically for sea travel
St. John the Russian: for transport, auto, busses
St. Niphon, Patriarch of Constantinople: for safety at sea

For Cobblers
St. Eustathius the Cobbler of Georgia

For Physicians
St. Panteleimon
The Holy Unmercenaries, Saints Cosmas & Damian
For the Kitchen, Home
St. Euphrosynos the Cook
St. Sergius of Radonezh: for baking
Sts. Spyridon & Nikodim of Kievo-Pechersk: Prosphora making

For Trading
St. Paraskeva

For Headaches
Holy New Martyr Demas of Smyrna

For Eyes
St. Paraskeva

For Ears
St. Spyridon the Wonderworker

For Teeth
St. Antipas of Pergamum

For Hernias & Intestinal Disorders
Holy Great Martyr Artemius
St. Artemius of Verkola

For Throat
St. Blaise of Sebastia

For Finding Employment
St. Xenia of St. Petersburg

For Help in Studies
The Three Hierarchs:
St. Basil the Great, St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory the Theologian
St. Sergius of Radonezh
St. John of Kronstadt
St. Justin the Philosopher

For Church-Chanting
St. Romanos the Melodist

For Iconographers
St. Luke the Apostle and Evangelist
St. John of Damascus

For Patient Endurance of Affliction
St. Job the Much-Suffering
Holy Forty Martyrs of Sebastia: especially in freezing cold weather
Holy Forty-Two Martyrs of Amorion

For Protection Against Thieves
St. Gregory the Wonderworker of Kievo-Pechersk

For Stone-workers
Holy Martyrs Florus & Laurus

For Soldiers
Holy Archangel Michael
St. George the Great Martyr
St. Barbara the Great Martyr

For Spiritual Help, Consolation & Compunction
St. Ephraim the Syrian
St. Alexis the Man of God
St. Seraphim of Sarov

For a Good End to One's Life
Holy Archangel Michael
St. Niphon, Patriarch of Constantinople

For Captives and Court Cases
St. Onouphrios the Great
St. Peter of Athos
St. George the Great Martyr

For Help in Distress, Poverty, Etc.
St. Nicholas the Wonderworker
St. John the Almsgiver of Alexandria
St. John of Kronstadt

For Finding Things
St. Phanourios the Great Martyr
St. Menas the Great Martyr of Egypt

For Meeting a Difficult Situation, an Interview, Etc.
St. David the Prophet, Psalmist & King
The Holy Unmercenaries & Healers
SS. Cosmas & Damian of Rome
SS. Panteleimon & Hermolaus
St. Julian the Martyr
St. John of Kronstadt
St. Nectarios of Aegina
Holy Archangel Raphael

For Animals & Livestock
St. George: cattle & herds
St. Parthenius of Radovysdius: cattle
SS. Spevsippus, Elesippus & Melevsippus: horses
St. Tryphon: geese

For Protection of Crops from Pests
St. Michael of Synnada

For the Protection of Gardens Against Pests
Holy Great Martyr Tryphon: also for hunters and Patron of Moscow

Against Demons & Witchcraft
SS. Cyprian & Justina
St. Theodore Sykeote
St. Mitrophan of Voronezh

For Chastity & Help in Carnal Warfare
St. John the Forerunner
St. Demetrios the Great Martyr
St. John the Much-Suffering
Holy Martyr Theodore the Byzantine
Holy Martyr Ignatios of Athos
St. Mary of Egypt
St. Joseph the All-Comely
St. Susanna [Old Testament]

For Mental Disorders
St. Naum of Ochrid
St. Anastasia
St. Gerasimos of Cephalonia: the possessed

Against Plague
St. Haralambos
St. Marina the Great Martyr

For Help Against Quick-Temper & Despondency
St. Tikhon of Zadonsk

For Workers in Hospitals
Holy Unmercenaries Saints Cosmas & Damian
St. Dositheus, Disciple of Abba Dorotheus

For Guilelessness & Simplicity
Holy Apostle Nathaniel & St. Paul the Simple

More RCC shamanism.

[michael_legna]

And you say the gates of hell will not prevail against the RCC! Yet, if an apostate church rules the catholic people in place of the RCC (which is a false church) then the gates of hell have surly prevailed by your own admission.

What nonsense, do you ever stop to think about the rammifications of what your theories are.  If you think being forced out of Rome is being prevailed over you have a very strange view of what satan wants to accomplish.  

I can see it now, satan gloating over his victory over God cause he made the Church move from Rome.  LOL

[michael_legna]

The following is a list of Saints called upon for special purposes (Reprinted from Orthodox Family Life. Volume 3, Issue 3. Spring 1998):

Do the Catholics have something similarto the Orthodox??LOL!

Yes there are patron saints for different causes.  These are saints who have gone before us that through documented miracles the Church has identified that God has chosen to work through them to accomplish miracles in response to prayers for certain specific needs.

It would be similar to identifying Elisha as the patron saint of the dead who need to rise again, since God used his bone to bring a man back to life. (2 Kings 13:20-21)

[Pilgrim]

And you say the gates of hell will not prevail against the RCC! Yet, if an apostate church rules the catholic people in place of the RCC (which is a false church) then the gates of hell have surly prevailed by your own admission.

What nonsense, do you ever stop to think about the rammifications of what your theories are.  If you think being forced out of Rome is being prevailed over you have a very strange view of what satan wants to accomplish.  

I can see it now, satan gloating over his victory over God cause he made the Church move from Rome.  LOL

Well Michael you finally have a good point. What was I thinking? It wouldn’t make any sense at all for Satan to drive the RCC from Rome seeing he already is the father of it.

[Tibby]

Oh, great come back. Why don’t you throw a “yo momma” in while you are at it?

Honestly, leave the silly insults in middle school, discuses respectfully, or some trolling. Make a legitimate argument, or save the bandwidth for posters who have something to say.

[Pilgrim]

Oh, great come back. Why don’t you throw a “yo momma” in while you are at it?

Honestly, leave the silly insults in middle school, discuses respectfully, or some trolling. Make a legitimate argument, or save the bandwidth for posters who have something to say.

That wasn’t an insult, I was just speaking the truth. How come you get so upset when I finally agree with Michael on a point. You should be rejoicing.

If we are going to save the bandwidth for someone with something (truthful) to say, then you Catholic spin doctors will have to find another forum to post on. Might I suggest a “CATHOLIC” forum. At least there you will find many who embrace the lies of the RCC. Just think of all the serious discussions you could have there. I would be happy to look a few up for you if you don’t know where to find them.  

[Tibby]

This Forum is for all Christians. That include Catholics, as well as the Anti-Catholics. We request the same respect from you that you get here. And the vast majority of the people on this board are with us. The Catholic Church needs no spin Doctor to proclaim the truth.

You are clearly only hear to monger up trouble. Please show some Maturity as Creationist has.

[Pilgrim]

This Forum is for all Christians. That include Catholics, as well as the Anti-Catholics. We request the same respect from you that you get here. And the vast majority of the people on this board are with us. The Catholic Church needs no spin Doctor to proclaim the truth.

You are clearly only hear to monger up trouble. Please show some Maturity as Creationist has.

Tibby, chill out before you hurt yourself. Take a deep breath, hold it in, and count to 10. No, make that 100,000,000,000!

[Pilgrim]

The following from http://www.demonbuster.com/zpart2-w5.html

 Roman Catholic Church

The Roman church denies the finished work of Jesus' sacrifice on Calvary, salvation by faith alone, the unique Mediatorship of Jesus and the all-sufficiency of the Bible as our source of divine Truth. Wearing of hair shirts, barbed-wire corsets and self-flagellation (whipping) were regularly practiced with Catholic monasteries and nunneries until at least the 1960's. (A Catholic can be a Christian but the vast majority are just religious. When you ask a Catholic if they are a Christian, many will say that I am a Catholic.)

What does the Roman church have in common with modern Paganism?

1. Both teach salvation through ritual acts and good works.

2. Both have a god and a goddess (Mary) figure in their pantheon.

3. Both have a slain and risen god who dies and is reborn in a seasonal cycle of ritual dramas.

4. Both have magic or thaumaturgy (Transubstantiation in the Mass) as central elements in their theology.

5. Both make extensive use of incense, statues, candles and ceremonial robes in their devotions.

6. Both believe in a kind of second chance after death (Purgatory).

7. Both believe the rituals of the living can affect the dead.

8. Both believe in rituals of pain and mortification for purification.