Why don't we call for the president to stop killing IRAQI babies?

[musicllover]

musiclover...
 you are right on about Islam!

This is a simple question but I think will reveal a lot.

Do you like/dislike Bush? why?

 Exactly what will it reveal?

Bronzesnake

Thakk you Bronze, I take that as a great compliment coming form a good teacher like you.
musicllover

[Bronzesnake]

musiclover quote...

 

Thakk you Bronze, I take that as a great compliment coming form a good teacher like you.
musicllover

 Please...tell me more!

Just kidding my sister...you're far too good to me!  

Bronzesnake

[Shammu]

Dreamweaver quote...

But, but, but, but,...... can we keep them for a while. They are fun to play with.

 Yes, can we?  pleeeease? Otherwise I will have to amuse myself with a piece of shiny string!  

Bronzesnake

With you, it's a piece of shiny string. With me, it's a pen, that glows funny colors.

Mark 7:37 People were overwhelmed with amazement. “He has done everything well,” they said. “He even makes the deaf hear and the mute speak.”
Bob

[Bronzesnake]

 A pen that glows funny colors you say???!!!
Me thinks me wants one!!!  

Bronzesnake.

[Shammu]

A pen that glows funny colors you say???!!!
Me thinks me wants one!!!  

Bronzesnake.

They are, 4.99 at the Dollar store.

[Soldier4Christ]

I play with a top that has  "Jesus loves me" written on it.
That way when I feel that I am going in circles I can really go in circles.

[Shammu]

I play with a top that has  "Jesus loves me" written on it.
That way when I feel that I am going in circles I can really go in circles.

Oh, I think want one! That way, I can go around in circles too!  

[Soldier4Christ]

I play with a top that has  "Jesus loves me" written on it.
That way when I feel that I am going in circles I can really go in circles.

Oh, I think want one! That way, I can go around in circles too!  

Would that make us like a troll?  

[Shammu]

I play with a top that has  "Jesus loves me" written on it.
That way when I feel that I am going in circles I can really go in circles.

Oh, I think want one! That way, I can go around in circles too!  

Would that make us like a troll?  

No it would take more then that, to make us trolls. Trolls are a class of their own. We, as Christians are a different class.

[Soldier4Christ]

I play with a top that has  "Jesus loves me" written on it.
That way when I feel that I am going in circles I can really go in circles.

Oh, I think want one! That way, I can go around in circles too!  

Would that make us like a troll?  

No it would take more then that, to make us trolls. Trolls are a class of their own. We, as Christians are a different class.

I like our class. The instructor is a lot nicer.

[Shammu]

I play with a top that has  "Jesus loves me" written on it.
That way when I feel that I am going in circles I can really go in circles.

Oh, I think want one! That way, I can go around in circles too!  

Would that make us like a troll?  

No it would take more then that, to make us trolls. Trolls are a class of their own. We, as Christians are a different class.

I like our class. The instructor is a lot nicer.

AMEN!!

Trolls also like to  .

[Soldier4Christ]

Now I like that smiley. The shoe sure fits.  

[felix102]

musiclover...
 you are right on about Islam!

This is a simple question but I think will reveal a lot.

Do you like/dislike Bush? why?

 Exactly what will it reveal?

Bronzesnake

Hey Bronzesnake
This was only part of a series of questions which eventually would have lead to: do you know the motives of GWB?

I'll go ahead with the explanation.


CrystalClear most likely would have said...I dont like Bush. Why? Because he declared an unjustified war.

A war for oil? A war to destroy all muslims? A war for power? it's not clear.


The question is "Why don't we call for the president to stop killing IRAQI babies?"

OKAY

This is the justification of the war. But what justification are we talking about? Legalistics? Ethics?

The Nazis tortured and killed many Jews. Doing medical experiments on live people. Forcing people to work to death. Sticking people in ovens. Torture. Please imagine what they went through. They took away their dignity. A rich jew family were forced to wash the sidewalk with their tongues. People were forced to stand naked in the snow while the officers were in heavy coats with hot coffee.

The officers excuse their actions by saying it was LAW 'we were ordered'.
This was law but clearly not ethical.
What would you want if you were one of these Jews? What would you want someone out there to do?


Now we know that law is not always ethical. Surely, this war was not justified in terms of the UN and whatever else is out there trying to keep peace in the world. We know that the president had ulterior motives for going to war other than the WMDs (for no clear evidence of WMDs were ever discovered). The WMD were simply something the president needed to justisfy the war. However, this is only necessary because of a law under some other rule. The question was 'Is Saddam a threat to the US?' ...only if he had WMD.

So what was the motive for going to war? You think you may know...but I am very sure you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA. I know that you have doubts yourself. The government is very good at keeping things secret. Is there anyone who knew that Saddam could have possibly been assasinated by CIA if the Geneva Conventions were not implemented so soon? I know that if that had happen...no one would be complaining as they are right now.

I bring up the Law vs Ethics for good reason. Let's say this was a war for oil. Let's go back to the old testament. Do we not see many wars where God lead Israel to conquer a land not their own? I do not see anyone complaining that the war was unjustified! But I can see why. We are in a new time under a new secular law. We are in a world where people think absolute peace can be attained (on EARTH). But let's look at the ethics.

I have a question for you. Would you like to live in Iraq under Saddam's rule? If you were, would you care who waged a war on Saddam no matter what cause or motive, just or unjust? If you have compassion on the muslims who wanted no part of the war...think again. They have been taught that if they fight to death in the name of Allah they will automatically go to heaven. Why do you think there are still attacks? These people hate peace and love war.

I was happy to see that Saddam was taken out. That these people of Iraq were freed from a reign of evil. Was this war justified? Under what criteria? To me, I'm glad for the war. I'm glad that Jesus Christ can reach the ears of those people. I know that in the hearts of these Iraqi people, they had the same yearnings as the Jews in the Holocaust; someone to free them from evil.

So what is it with all this anti-war?


I live in Copperas Cove, Texas which is located within a mile of Fort Hood. So 90% of the families (probably more) are affiliated with the military. At school, when the war occured, almost all families had either a mom, dad, sister, or brother deployed (and are still being deployed) to Iraq. Teachers, friends, and churches everywhere did not complain about the war at all. Instead everyone was saying "support our troops!", "Pray for our troops".  Only the secular families complained.

I would have joined the Navy if it were not for my parents forcing me into college. The influence of military was very strong there. I had taken the official ASVAB and everything. A moment away from going to school for nuclear propulsion systems. This was during the war. I would have been happy to have been part of the war effort. Am I afraid of death? No! "For to me, to live is Christ, to die is gain." That is why only the secular families were complaining.  

[felix102]

I also noticed the otherside of my original question...

Why do you like/dislike Bush?

I like Bush because......

To say the least, he is one president that has pushed Christian values. However we are very aware of his folly. What do I make of this?

I can tell you that no one is perfect. As a personal opinion, I do not think Bush is a competant and smart man. However, too many people give too much credit, and likewise, too much criticism to the president. The president does not do everything on his own; there are many many people working for him under him. Anything good or bad that happens is not always consequent of him; however, indirectly involved for he choses a lot of pple for his office.

Nonetheless, no one is perfect. I am not too good at history, but I am sure that many presidents have been infamous for certain actions: Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, and probably more that we are not aware of. Do I know the motives and intent of Bush's actions? I dont. If I did I would be a better judge of how good of a president he is. I do feel that he is a strong supporter of our Lord Jesus Christ but is not competant for a responsibility such as a president.

[Bronzesnake]

 Hello Felix.

 that was a well thought out couple of posts my friend.

 I'll tell you why I believe Bush went to war in Iraq.

 First of all, Saddam gave the U.S. many reasons to go in and take him out. I won't go into detail because everyone knows about the twelve years of beligerance toward the U.N. sanctions. Most people know that Saddam had an active nuclear weapons program going on when the Israelis bombed them. I also believe Saddam had WMD's and the French, Germans and Russians know about it because they supplied the weapons and technology. I believe (and there is pretty damning proof) that the Russians helped scuttle the weapons out of Iraq and into Syria. Russia are not our friends.

 I believe the only way the U.S. could see making the world a relatively safer place, was to solve the Middle east problems - Iraq, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan etc. These dictatorial countries must be "cleansed" and made into domocracies. It doesn't sound pretty, it's certainly not politically correct, but then again, most sensable things are not politically correct these days are they?

 Bush has his sights set on Iran now. Everyone with a half a brain in their skulls knows that Iran has an active nuclear weapons program going on.

  Findings and Initial Assessment

32. Iran has failed to meet its obligations under its Safeguards Agreement with respect to the reporting
of nuclear material, the subsequent processing and use of that material and the declaration of facilities
where the material was stored and processed. These failures, and the actions taken thus far to correct
them, can be summarized as follows:
(a) Failure to declare the import of natural uranium in 1991, and its subsequent transfer
for further processing.
On 15 April 2003, Iran submitted ICRs on the import of the UO2, UF4 and UF6. Iran
has still to submit ICRs on the transfer of the material for further processing and use.
(b) Failure to declare the activities involving the subsequent processing and use of the
imported natural uranium, including the production and loss of nuclear material,
where appropriate, and the production and transfer of waste resulting therefrom.
Iran has acknowledged the production of uranium metal, uranyl nitrate, ammonium
uranyl carbonate, UO2 pellets and uranium wastes. Iran must still submit ICRs on
these inventory changes.
(c) Failure to declare the facilities where such material (including the waste) was
received, stored and processed.
On 5 May 2003, Iran provided preliminary design information for the facility JHL.
Iran has informed the Agency of the locations where the undeclared processing of the
imported natural uranium was conducted (TRR and the Esfahan Nuclear Technology
Centre), and provided access to those locations. It has provided the Agency access to
the waste storage facility at Esfahan, and has indicated that access would be provided
to Anarak, as well as the waste disposal site at Qom.
(d) Failure to provide in a timely manner updated design information for the MIX Facility
and for TRR.
Iran has agreed to submit updated design information for the two facilities.
(e) Failure to provide in a timely manner information on the waste storage at Esfahan and
at Anarak.
Iran has informed the Agency of the locations where the waste has been stored or
discarded. It has provided the Agency access to the waste storage facility at Esfahan,
and has indicated that access will be provided to Anarak.
33. Although the quantities of nuclear material involved have not been large 6 , and the material would
need further processing before being suitable for use as the fissile material component of a nuclear
explosive device, the number of failures by Iran to report the material, facilities and activities in
question in a timely manner as it is obliged to do pursuant to its Safeguards Agreement is a matter of
concern. While these failures are in the process of being rectified by Iran, the process of verifying the
correctness and completeness of the Iranian declarations is still ongoing.
 6 The total amount of material, approximately 1.8 tonnes, is 0.13 effective kilograms of uranium. This is,
however, not insignificant in terms of a State’s ability to conduct nuclear research and development activities.

 To be continued...