Why don't we call for the president to stop killing IRAQI babies?

[nChrist]

Pastor Roger,

Brother, thank you for the links. I've been praying about this and plan to join you in whatever I'm able to do. My home is also the home of one of the largest Military bases in the world, Ft. Sill. We do have an Armed Services "Y" and a Christian Serviceman's Center, so I am going to pray for strength and go volunteer at one of them.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 103:17  But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

[CrystalClear]

I'm glad we all agree that support of our troops is ESSENTIAL! Amen to all of you!  

Bronzesnake, I'm glad that you are willing to argue with me in an adult manner! Thank you!

However, nothing in your last post (while I agree with almost all of what you said) gives us the right to invade a country that did not attack us. Period. Not only does it not give us the right to invade them but it is even worse to invade and try to impose a government of our choosing. Yes, I know there will be *snicker* elections this month but we decided what type of government is best for them...

To support the troops you must be able to support what they are doing. What they are doing is war. To say that war is illegal is to say that what they are doing is illegal.

Anything less is just empty, meaningless words that breaks down the moral of the troops. This is not just my sentiment but that of many that are there and have been there.

Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you and agree with you. It's unfortunate that discent about the war affects the moral of the troops but just think how many more lives WOULD have been lost in Vietnam if we the people didn't force our government to get out of it? There were people just like a lot of you who felt we were doing a great thing fighting the commies. Even after we pulled out, of course we look back on it and wonder how we could be so foolish. At least this time around we are not taking it out on our troops. But public opinion WILL get us out of it sooner (saving lives) if we tell our government it's wrong.

[nChrist]

CrystalClear Said:

Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you and agree with you. It's unfortunate that discent about the war affects the moral of the troops but just think how many more lives WOULD have been lost in Vietnam if we the people didn't force our government to get out of it? There were people just like a lot of you who felt we were doing a great thing fighting the commies. Even after we pulled out, of course we look back on it and wonder how we could be so foolish. At least this time around we are not taking it out on our troops. But public opinion WILL get us out of it sooner (saving lives) if we tell our government it's wrong.

This is simply a minority opinion and bears little relevance to reality. DUH? - The people have already spoken in a recent election, and the war on terror has just begun. It will continue regardless of what we do, so we should use our heads and at least choose our battleground. Hollywood and the folks like you are simply hurting our folks on the ground and helping our enemies. The terrorists will remain our enemies and keep trying to kill us regardless of where we go or what we do.

It's really just a matter of where the battles are fought - there or here. Who knows - it may be both soon. If so, we have men and women of sufficient courage to protect Hollywood and you. Anyone who thinks that we have seen the last of innocent people and children killed on our own soil is reality challenged.

I really only have one thing left to say to you on this issue. I'm positive that you calling yourself a Marine is a pain and embarrassment to the real Marines. In this and all other topics you have become involved in, you appear to be a TROLL and here for nothing but trouble.

Moderator

[Soldier4Christ]

Beps,

I'm positive that you calling yourself a Marine is a pain and embarrassment to the real Marines. In this and all other topics you have become involved in, you appear to be a TROLL and here for nothing but trouble.

I get the feeling that you are right. I know for sure that you are right on the first sentence. I was in Viet Nam also and I do not feel the least bit foolish about having been a part of it. In the opinion of many that were there, it was all the protests and riots back home that placed so much pressure on the politicians that prevented us from doing the job that we started out to do and also caused so many more deaths of our Military than was necessary.

You are also right in saying:

It's really just a matter of where the battles are fought - there or here. Who knows - it may be both soon. If so, we have men and women of sufficient courage to protect Hollywood and you. Anyone who thinks that we have seen the last of innocent people and children killed on our own soil is reality challenged.

It is far from being over or safe for anyone.

Brother Beps, many will be greatful for your efforts no matter what they may be. Just don't over do it. That won't be of help to anyone.

God bless you.

[Reba]

Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you and agree with you. It's unfortunate that discent about the war affects the moral of the troops but just think how many more lives WOULD have been lost in Vietnam if we the people didn't force our government to get out of it? There were people just like a lot of you who felt we were doing a great thing fighting the commies. Even after we pulled out, of course we look back on it and wonder how we could be so foolish. At least this time around we are not taking it out on our troops. But public opinion WILL get us out of it sooner (saving lives) if we tell our government it's wrong.

We the people? ‘We the people’ have spoken and GW won.  If we the people had been heard in the Vietnam era the military would have fought the war not the politicians. The only foolish thing about veitnam was not letting the GIs fight to win,  The leberal powers at the time fought trying to look good in the liberal press. (One should never say anything that is not wonderfull about JFK)

The war on terror was waged against the USA .  The Clinton administration choose to do nothing… one US solder was too many to be drug through the streets... time and time again and bingo we ended up with 911…

Peace at any cost is not peace. If that was so ‘Cristalclear’ would not be posting but just agreeing. I know a few guys over there and the reports they send back are good. Full of promise, hope, future, building of hospitals and schools, thanks for the USA. I guess justice is in the heart and not all hearts are good.

[musicllover]

Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you and agree with you. It's unfortunate that discent about the war affects the moral of the troops but just think how many more lives WOULD have been lost in Vietnam if we the people didn't force our government to get out of it? There were people just like a lot of you who felt we were doing a great thing fighting the commies. Even after we pulled out, of course we look back on it and wonder how we could be so foolish. At least this time around we are not taking it out on our troops. But public opinion WILL get us out of it sooner (saving lives) if we tell our government it's wrong.

We the people? ‘We the people’ have spoken and GW won.  If we the people had been heard in the Vietnam era the military would have fought the war not the politicians. The only foolish thing about veitnam was not letting the GIs fight to win,  The leberal powers at the time fought trying to look good in the liberal press. (One should never say anything that is not wonderfull about JFK)

The war on terror was waged against the USA .  The Clinton administration choose to do nothing… one US solder was too many to be drug through the streets... time and time again and bingo we ended up with 911…

Peace at any cost is not peace. If that was so ‘Cristalclear’ would not be posting but just agreeing. I know a few guys over there and the reports they send back are good. Full of promise, hope, future, building of hospitals and schools, thanks for the USA. I guess justice is in the heart and not all hearts are good.

Reba,
     long time no see sister, I agree with you completely. I woulded watch CNN non stop literally during the conflict. I had the tv on day and night slept in the living room with one ear open for the inbedded reporter with my sons group, I had an 800 number that I called each week to get a report on the happening in Iraq from the commander of caat red, (usually it was the same report for weeks on end, had lots of them memorized) I heard from my son himself in letter and satalite phone calls what was going on,I also belonged to the email list, or could call some of the wives, mothers from the base my son came from... Compare all this to what I was hearing on CNN,.....NOTHING lined up. CNN gave the news in a far more negative light, just the bad and the ugly, any good was left out. Even a special report involving the Marines going house to house showed a poor Iraqi family being terrorized by our Marines, NOT soo my son was there, those family yes were upset but when the interpiters explained many many times they were happy to help, even had my sons group sit down and eat supper with them in one small village while the water specialist got the water running to their village again. There is good going on, but the negative, and terrorist are the story, the ugly deaths and crimminal action of a few taint somes views of reality I am afraid.

good too see ya again,
musicllover

[CrystalClear]

I really only have one thing left to say to you on this issue. I'm positive that you calling yourself a Marine is a pain and embarrassment to the real Marines. In this and all other topics you have become involved in, you appear to be a TROLL and here for nothing but trouble.

Moderator

At least we can see your true nature. I served my country and I don't deserve that comment.

If I were trolling I would be involved in many other discussions. This is a debate forum and I am expressing my opinion in an adult manner. Ad hominem attacks on me only show a lack of grace. Why have a debate forum if what you really want to hear is everyone agree with you. Look up the word debate. I'm too angry to do your work for you this time.

Semper Fi

 

[nChrist]

At least we can see your true nature. I served my country and I don't deserve that comment.

If I were trolling I would be involved in many other discussions. This is a debate forum and I am expressing my opinion in an adult manner. Ad hominem attacks on me only show a lack of grace. Why have a debate forum if what you really want to hear is everyone agree with you. Look up the word debate. I'm too angry to do your work for you this time.

Semper Fi

         

[Shammu]

CrystalClear, I see you quote alot of sources that were/are against Bush.  I could post alot of different sources to prove other-wise. I don't have to, after reading what Pastor Roger, Beps, BRNZ, Reba, musiclover, and quite a few others have posted.

[size=12]Bush won, Kerry lost, thats that.[/size]

[nChrist]

Dreamweaver,

 Brother, I'm almost sure that I remember hearing something about that in the news, but I was beginning to wonder.

By the way, just for information, terrorists are the ones who are killing Iraqi children, and they want to come here and kill our children AGAIN.

I simply want to take this opportunity again to thank the brave men and women of our Armed Forces for delaying the inevitable, more loss of innocents on our own soil. I have no doubt at all that God has been good to us, and God has given our leaders and our troops guidance, strength, and courage to protect our way of life. I pray that we never take for granted the freedoms we enjoy because of the blood, sweat, and tears of our Armed Services and the families who STAND TALL! behind them. Our children still go to school in relative safety because of them. In fact, every freedom we enjoy is because of them.

Hug and thank a soldier or a soldier's family member today. But for them, the children and the aged would also have to become soldiers. I pray that it never comes to that, and it won't if our brave young men and women serving have their way. If it does come to this, it won't be the fault of our heroes giving their all.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 36:5  Thy mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds.

[CrystalClear]

Yes Bush did win as you all like to cleverly point out. I said it before and I'll say it again for those of you unable to read anything other than what you want see:

I do not support Kerry nor Bush because they are both wrong for the job. So don't label me a leftist or an ultra-liberal.

The funny thing you people seem to forget is that there WERE NO TERRORIST THREATS IN IRAQ UNTIL WE INVADED!

Now all the terrorists who were headed to Afgahnistan went to IRAQ and OSAMA BIN LADEN (the REAL threat) is still on the loose. But I guess what you really want is a war with any muslims so you will simply ignore these FACTS and support an unjust war.

And I don't know what sources you are refering to since I think I linked to an independent poll. Bush may have won the election but he's losing the war.  

[Reba]

True of Germany in the 1930 also... the 'threat' had long past....

[Bronzesnake]

The funny thing you people seem to forget is that there WERE NO TERRORIST THREATS IN IRAQ UNTIL WE INVADED!

Now all the terrorists who were headed to Afgahnistan went to IRAQ and OSAMA BIN LADEN (the REAL threat) is still on the loose. But I guess what you really want is a war with any muslims so you will simply ignore these FACTS and support an unjust war.

And I don't know what sources you are refering to since I think I linked to an independent poll. Bush may have won the election but he's losing the war.  

Crystal my friend.
 There were no terrorist threats in Iraq pre war because the terrorists were running the country. That comment about "But I guess what you really want is a war with any muslims" is way out of line my brother. Even though you get people's backs against the wall with your contrasting positions on many topics, I still respected your opinions and your right to argue them, but that statement is just ugly my brother.

Bronzesnake

[CrystalClear]

The funny thing you people seem to forget is that there WERE NO TERRORIST THREATS IN IRAQ UNTIL WE INVADED!

Now all the terrorists who were headed to Afgahnistan went to IRAQ and OSAMA BIN LADEN (the REAL threat) is still on the loose. But I guess what you really want is a war with any muslims so you will simply ignore these FACTS and support an unjust war.

And I don't know what sources you are refering to since I think I linked to an independent poll. Bush may have won the election but he's losing the war.  

Crystal my friend.
 There were no terrorist threats in Iraq pre war because the terrorists were running the country. That comment about "But I guess what you really want is a war with any muslims" is way out of line my brother. Even though you get people's backs against the wall with your contrasting positions on many topics, I still respected your opinions and your right to argue them, but that statement is just ugly my brother.

Bronzesnake

Is it? So my comment is ugly but BEP denigrating my military service is okey dokey? How very Christian of you all.
This is why I take issue with fundamentalists. I find them to be exclusionary and hypocritical. You're going to put down another Christian just because my political views are different than yours? Shame on you.

[Shammu]

Yes Bush did win as you all like to cleverly point out. I said it before and I'll say it again for those of you unable to read anything other than what you want see:

I do not support Kerry nor Bush because they are both wrong for the job. So don't label me a leftist or an ultra-liberal.

So you would like to see the country run like, Benito Mussolini's Italy, or Hideki Tojo's Japan, or Hilter's Germany?

The funny thing you people seem to forget is that there WERE NO TERRORIST THREATS IN IRAQ UNTIL WE INVADED!

Terrorists were running the country, of Iraq.

Now all the terrorists who were headed to Afgahnistan went to IRAQ and OSAMA BIN LADEN (the REAL threat) is still on the loose. But I guess what you really want is a war with any muslims so you will simply ignore these FACTS and support an unjust war.

Well at least they are in one area to wipe out.

And I don't know what sources you are refering to since I think I linked to an independent poll. Bush may have won the election but he's losing the war.  

Skynews - was against Bush running for office.
CNN - Wanted Kerry, you should have seen the e-mail I got on this.
Your pollingreport.com/iraq, is complete dissagrement with the state of Arizona. The last poll here, was 87.32% for the war.

While we are on this, what about Saddam's refusal to work with the UN? Over 10 years went by, he refused to help, the inspectors. That in it's self tells me, that he did have something to hide. Saddam has no one to blame but himself.

Also have you though that, God is pulling the strings? Maybe God has planned this out, to his satifaction. Maybe God, is getting ready for the "Rapture."