Peaceful religion isn't spelled Islam

[cris]

Zak,

Just some of my thoughts.............in no way am I defending Islam.

Marriage to a 9 yr. old girl............I understood this to mean even though there was a marriage, it wasn't a consummated one.  I don't know what age the girl would have to be before it was consummated.  Maybe I'm incorrect.

Reference Tony Blair's and your thoughts.................I agree but don't think it's this easy.  If it was, it would have been done long ago.  There will be repercussions which might make things worse.  Sometimes, being scattered is better than being together........................you know, there's more power in togetherness.  I don't know what the answer is.  The only thing I can think of is prayer that God will expose their hierarchy and bring them to justice.  In a way, this is what Hitler tried to do, albeit a bit different from what Blair is trying to do.  In no way am I saying Hitler and Blair are alike.  It's just that Hitler was trying to cart off what he deemed societal problems.  We're sort of looking at it the same way, although we're not killing them like Hitler did.

 

[Soldier4Christ]

Historically we don't know if Mohammeds marriage to Aisha was consummated or not. We do know that in countries such as Yemen, Afghanistan and even in India that there are consummated marriages of girls as young as 6. Yes, that is not a type-o, I said  6 (SIX). In many of these countries there are no laws to control the age of a child getting married. It is usually left up to the parents and many of these parents marry their children off for bride money.

[Bronzesnake]

Historically we don't know if Mohammeds marriage to Aisha was consummated or not. We do know that in countries such as Yemen, Afghanistan and even in India that there are consummated marriages of girls as young as 6. Yes, that is not a type-o, I said  6 (SIX). In many of these countries there are no laws to control the age of a child getting married. It is usually left up to the parents and many of these parents marry their children off for bride money.

Heartbreaking.

What kind of "men" can do such evil to children?

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

The views of Islam toward women is sickening. They view girls and women as property instead of human beings.

I was just listening to a news story about Gaza. That sounds like a powder keg with the fuse lit, but it seems there are many powder kegs with the fuse lit involving Islam. We know from studying Bible Prophecy that Islam will be a part of many end of this age events. In fact, the stage is set and the players are in place for Bible Prophecy to unfold. As Christians, it is not the time to give up, just the opposite. Christians should have a burning desire to work harder than ever to share the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel of God's Grace. Our time for sharing might be growing short.

PLEASE don't think that I'm hinting at date setting or claiming to have any kind of revelation. I simply see this evil world getting worse by the minute and powers in place. By the end of this age, 2/3 of the world's population will be destroyed. It's very sad for a Christian to know how many people are lost. If they die in their sins without JESUS, they will be doomed to eternal punishment in hell. This should be a matter of daily prayer for every Christian. Even if this isn't the last days, Christians should be witnessing as if these are the last days.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 10:27-30 ASV  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:  and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.  My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.  I and the Father are one.

[M]

As much as I hate to be a moderate voice on this subject ....... a few points to ponder.

Not all Muslims are radicals and wish their children to become suicide bombers.   Could it be that some are just like the cultural C&E (Christmas and Easter) Christians who are just as ignorant about their holy scriptures?  Just as much as all western European colonists were not Christian missionaries.  It is totally unfair to brand a whole group of people as evil.  If people are presenting factual information on this forum fine.  There should be no tolerance for hate or advocating genocide.   I do have a problem with radical Islamists and so do many moderate Muslims.  Britain and Canada have hate crime laws so there really is not true freedom of speech that Americans love.  If Britain deports or jails people for committing hate crimes, fantastic.  Other countries should do the same.

I had the interesting opportunity to have to defend the Christian/Jewish Bible against allegations that it was hate literature against Wiccan beliefs.  I know a woman who is Wiccan (I often pray for her) who was very upset and angry that the Bible says all witches should be put to death.  I had to explain to her that Christians are not on a witch hunt to kill Wiccans (while there might be some who are, I am not one of them).  While there are several crimes which the penalty prescribed is death in the Bible, we do not use those punishments today.  The Bible does advocate genocide against the Amekelites (whoever they may be today?)  So someone should really have to survey several moderate Muslims to ask them why those scriptures advocating genocide against Jews and Pagans (can be interpreted as Christians, Hindus, etc) are in there and what is their revelance now (and maybe why they have not been removed).  

The question about the 9 yr bride.  There are several reasons to arrange a marriage: for protection of the girl/woman, alliances with other families/clans, not just for sexual purposes.  I had pointed this out in a Muslim/Christian discussion.  After which one Muslim said that the marriage was not consumated until the girl was 11 yrs old since she had a child from that union when she was 12 yrs old.  That alleged fact did not add any favour to the case.  I was still disgusted.  

The only thing that bothers me about Jesus is the clearing of the temple.  I do not particularly like the image of violence.  But it should be noted that Jesus is often portrayed as a revolutionary against oppression when evangelizing to Muslims and some other populations.  The issue of the Bible allegedly supporting slavery is often used when convincing African-heritaged people to convert to Islam.  (terrorist groups often recruit converts and convicts because then they will have the desire to 'prove their devotion' and because they have broken the law already they will be more likely to see justification in breaking it again.  That is why I have a huge problem with prison allowing in these 'missionaries'.)  As the plight of the Palestinians/ strife in Pakistan being the fault of (Christian) European/American governments used to convert other cultural/racial groups.   Of course the converts are told that the Koran must be read only in Arabic (which they will have to learn) so they do not know what it is really about.  

I also question that if the Koran is considered to be such a piece of hate literature why is it the first thing given along with clothing and a bed roll to prisoners at Guitanimo Bay, Cuba?  

[Bronzesnake]

M.

You are correct. Not all Muslims are murderous radicals. However, the vast majority of them remain madeningly silent on the subject of Islamic terror - holy jihad. I would even venture to say that the great majority of Muslims in the world actually support such action.

When we speak about Islam in the light of terror, we are not condemning any peaceful Muslims. We are pointing the finger directly into the faces of the terrorists, and yes, those who support them even through silence.

What do you suppose the reaction from the Christian world would be if a group of terrorists calling themselves Christians went around murdering innoscent people like these terrorists do? The outrage and condemnation would be instantanious, and heard worldwide on every tv and newspaper around the globe. That's the major problem with "peaceful" Muslims.

Look how these Islamists countries are run. Remember Afghanistan before the war? It was a living hell hole. I watched a little old woman being beaten in the street by a religious cop with a steel bar, for the crime of accidently allowing her forearm to be seen in pubic! I saw mass executions being held for public enjoyment in a local soccer field. men being hung, and women being shot in the head, simply because of a rumor of adultery! This is Islam my friend, as politically incorrect as it may be to say that - it is reality.
Something is never what it's "supposed" to be - everything is what it is.

The only thing that bothers me about Jesus is the clearing of the temple.  I do not particularly like the image of violence.  But it should be noted that Jesus is often portrayed as a revolutionary against oppression when evangelizing to Muslims and some other populations.  The issue of the Bible allegedly supporting slavery is often used when convincing African-heritaged people to convert to Islam.

My friend. If Jesus whipping a few people with a piece of soft rope, and turning over a few tables bothers you, then wait till you see what He has in store for the tribulation!

As far as the bible supporting slavery goes - slavery in biblical days, was not what we know as slavery in our time. A "slave" could (if he chose, in most cases) offer his/her service to a family for a set time period in order to pay off a debt, or as payment for marriage to the families daughter, or simply as a form of work for food and lodgeing. Jesus told people to treat them (slaves) good.

Remember, it's not anything from Jesus which leads to people's choices to turn from Him and commit evil in the world. That is satan's job, and men have free will to take part in it. So I object to the idea that "Christians" or the "bible" is the cause of people's evil deeds. God commands us to go out and spread the good news. If Christians never evangelized, hundreds of millions of men and women, who are Christians because of people who followed God's orders, would be headed straight ot hell.

I also question that if the Koran is considered to be such a piece of hate literature why is it the first thing given along with clothing and a bed roll to prisoners at Guitanimo Bay, Cuba?

 

Muslims around the world went into a murderous frenzy over a rumor that their Koran had been desecrated. What kind of response do you think they would have if these prisoners were refused the book?

[M]

Christians do have some explanations for violence/slavery in the Bible as you have explained.  I have yet to hear any Muslims explain the passages of the Koran that advocate genocide.

We do however forget that there are some Christians who have justified their acts of terrorism.  Organizations such as the IRA and other groups have been supported by Christians, even some American Christians.  

So what turns an ordinary person into a terrorist?  Some answers.  

http://whyfiles.org/140terror_psych/

[Soldier4Christ]

CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) is an organization in America that few people have heard about. This organization has its sights on taking over the government and doing away with our Constitution by any means possible. Their first objective is to do so by peaceful means through converting as many people as possible to Islam. If that does not work then their intent is to use any other means possible to overthrow the government.  And this is a "religion of peace and tolerance".

BTW this organization has had the ACLU supporting them in their many lawsuits that are intended to achieve their objective.

[nChrist]

Hello M,

I understand almost more than I want to know about criminal behavior and terrorists. I did read the answers link you posted, but it really boils down to excuses, not reasons. I was just reflecting on the unknown thousands of what I will refer to as first victims. I'm talking about missionaries, aid workers, and the general category of folks who have never done anything except to help. Yet, they were beaten, tortured, killed, and put in prison.

All mass murderers have excuses, and some of them are insane. Their excuses mean nothing to their innocent victims and the families of the victims. The common denominator and end result must always be the same: they must be and will be stopped. It's also common that negotiations are a complete waste of time for the vast majority, and it actually is viewed as a sign of weakness, winning, and reason for more acts of violence. The only thing they really understand is force. I'm not hinting that we should stop trying other methods, but I am saying that we should understand reality. Aid workers and missionaries won't use force, so more and more of them are becoming victims. I have no doubt at all that Christians will keep trying to help people around the world, regardless of how many volunteers are killed or become victims.

In short, I don't buy the excuses.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Matthew 5:14-16 NASB  "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;  nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.  "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

[Bronzesnake]

Christians do have some explanations for violence/slavery in the Bible as you have explained.  I have yet to hear any Muslims explain the passages of the Koran that advocate genocide.

We do however forget that there are some Christians who have justified their acts of terrorism.  Organizations such as the IRA and other groups have been supported by Christians, even some American Christians.  

So what turns an ordinary person into a terrorist?  Some answers.  

http://whyfiles.org/140terror_psych/

 I have heard many Muslims on Arab's Al-Jazeera news show advocating murder and corroborating the Koran's blessings upon those who do the killing. I have never heard a single Chrisian do any such thing throught the Holy bible.

 I'm not saying that Christians do not do evil my friend. Your example of the IRA actually underlines my statement that Christians around the world condemned those murderous actions. There was never any news footage of Christians cheering in the streets when an IRA bomb ripped through the street shops in England, and tore apart innocent victims. I have seen much footage of Muslims cheering wildly whenever innocent victims are killed by their buddies, such as 911.
Surely you can see the difference here.

 I don't know if it's intentional on your part, but you're coming across as blaming God's Word for Islamic murder.

[darwinatridge]

Amen Brother. Not many realise just how actively these people are working toward their agenda of Islamitazation of the world. All one needs do is a search on the term CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) to see just how active they are in their pursuit of these goals here in America. Another search on ACLU CAIR will show the many lawsuits that CAIR has to meet these goals being assisted by the notorious ACLU.

 

Thank you brother.

This is the last one of this series, I'm doing. That is unless, I am requested to do more. Don't get me started on the Anti Christian Lawless Union!

In the arms of the Lord, I rest.
Bob

Psalm 119:50 This is my comfort and consolation in my affliction: that Your word has revived me and given me life.

I have been doing a little research on the connection between those on the left who don't have a problem with using violance and Islam. In fact there is an article on my website titled, Why Are Leftist So Enamored With Islam.
http://www.youchoose2008.org/whyareleftistsoenamoredwithislam.html
I'd be interested in your thoughts.

[Soldier4Christ]

A little more about CAIR and there stance on this.

CAIR and Michael Graham

By Joel Mowbray
Published August 18, 2005
Local talk-radio station WMAL is under assault from the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a group that has savaged journalists, critics of radical Islam, even the Fox TV show "24" -- but which just as steadfastly has refused to specifically condemn various Islamic terrorist organizations.
    CAIR has instigated a campaign to pressure the Disney-owned WMAL to fire its already-suspended midday host, which came on the heels of its initial effort to have him suspended.
    Though the outcome is uncertain in the current situation, two things are certain: 1) CAIR will continue demonizing genuine criticism of radical Islam as "Islamophobia," and 2) it will never specifically condemn radical Islam or Islamic terrorist organizations such as Hamas and Hezbollah.
    At issue are remarks made by mid-morning host Michael Graham, in which he said that "Islam has, sadly, become a terrorist organization." But what is lost in most media accounts -- and is never mentioned by CAIR -- are the surrounding statements made by Mr. Graham, which put the thrust of his comments in an entirely different light.
    Mr. Graham's comments, in fact, were not met with immediate condemnation or outrage. He wasn't suspended until July 28, almost a week after his on-air remarks. In the interim, CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper even came on Mr. Graham's show -- telling him that CAIR didn't want him fired, just punished. Once Mr. Graham was suspended indefinitely later that week, CAIR quickly called for his head.
    Here are Mr. Graham's remarks, with full context:
    "Because of the mix of Islamic theology that -- rightly or wrongly -- is interpreted to promote violence, added to an organizational structure that allows violent radicals to operate openly in Islam's name with impunity, Islam has, sadly, become a terrorist organization. It pains me to say it. But the good news is it doesn't have to stay this way, if the vast majority of Muslims who don't support terror will step forward and reclaim their religion."
    Plenty of people can -- and should -- take issue with the framing of the religion itself as a "terrorist organization." But his surrounding comments have more than a ring of truth. Islamic theology is used to promote violence. And in many parts of the world, radicals have taken control of Islam--and the moderates have been effectively silenced.
    And Mr. Graham's desire that moderates reclaim control of Islam is shared by many, though likely not by CAIR or groups of its ilk.
    CAIR was founded in 1994 by two former high-ranking officials with the Islamic Association of Palestine, a rabidly anti-Semitic organization known as Hamas' biggest political booster in the United States.
    Since September 11, CAIR officials have been careful to avoid the appearance that they support Islamic terrorism. But not before September 11. In November 1999, CAIR President Omar Ahmad addressed a youth session at the IAP annual convention in Chicago, where he praised suicide bombers who "kill themselves for Islam": "Fighting for freedom, fighting for Islam ? that is not suicide. They kill themselves for Islam." (Transcript provided by the Investigative Project.)
    Though CAIR's mission is not to serve as an overt Hamas partisan, the organization has refused to specifically condemn the terrorist organization. Ditto for Hezbollah, which is responsible for murdering more Americans than any other terrorist group besides al Qaeda. And CAIR refused to condemn bin Laden or al Qaeda by name until three months after September 11.
    The Washington Post in November 2001 asked a CAIR spokesman to condemn Hamas or Islamic Jihad. He refused, explaining, "It's not our job to go around denouncing." Asked a similar question about Hamas and Hezbollah by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in February 2002, Mr. Hooper called such queries a "game," and added, "We're not in the business of condemning."
    Of course, CAIR is very much "in the business of condemning." The group gleefully slams critics of radical Islam, television shows, and talk-radio hosts. But when it comes to Islamic terrorist organizations or prominent Muslims who endorse terrorism, CAIR's silence is deafening.
    To provide cover -- and further perpetuate the myth that CAIR and other American Muslim organizations are genuinely "moderate" -- various fundamentalist Muslim leaders recently issued a fatwa against "extremism" and "terrorism." It was classic CAIR obfuscation: It condemned terms that were intentionally not defined. Not coincidentally, no terrorist organizations were named. Sadly, many media outlets were snookered.
    The question is: will WMAL be snookered? The station, for its part, refuses comment, with one official calling it a "human resources issue." And the station has never acknowledged that CAIR was responsible for its decision. So it is possible that something else may be at play. There are even some signals that the host might be back behind the microphone before long. At press time, he had not been reinstated.
    Regardless of whether or not CAIR is successful in ousting Mr. Graham, though, it's only a matter of time before the group launches its next smear campaign. There's no telling whom CAIR would target next for condemnation, though it is clear who would not be.
   
    Joel Mowbray writes occasionally for The Washington Times.

[Shammu]

Studies have shown that, islam is a  violent religion in todays world. The Crusades which you talk about happened under the catholic pops. Christianty is different then the catholics are. Though there are some good catholics out there. Christians believe the Bible. Alot of catholics believe what the pope tells them. It's already been proven that islam is a false faith. There is no prophet of islam. Mohammed took what he wanted out of the Bible, and twisted it for what he wanted.

Yes, I know that, not all Muslims are radicals. They have my prayers, to come and know Jesus Christ. The one true Lord.
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
Islam falls under the having false god/s, and wicked.

Resting in the Lord God Jesus hands.
Bob

Job 36:4 For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.

[Shammu]

Long before 9/11 back in 1996, when my son was preaching to  some muslims. He was beat to a pulp. Thats when I started to study about muslims. I have spoken out about muslims in 1997. I will always speak against the islamic faith. Then a false faith wants to rule the world, through violent activies. When a Christian gets beat through speaking his faith. What are you going to do when;
Jesus comes back, for his people?
How are you going to explain that?
How are you going to seeing no Christians in the world? except for tribulation saints

Resting in the arms, of my Lord Jesus Christ.
Bob

Isaiah 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.

[Shammu]

Matthew 5:43-48 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

What a glorious thought, one truly from the mind of God.  A thought that stands in glaring contrast to the teachings of the Quran.  America must awaken and realize that we are a Christian nation, with Christian morals.  The Quran and the Islamic faith are in direct opposition to the things that we as Christians cherish so dearly.  I implore all that read this to realize that we do not worship the same God as the Islamics.  However, we must be cautious not to be overcome with hatred for these people, for their human nature does not differ from ours. I guess you could say, hate the faith, not the people.

The World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks should illustrate that there is a big difference between the Christian and Islamic faiths.  I know that many who read this will write it off as extremist, not mainstream Islam.  But consider that many people who claim to be Christians in this country do not read their Bible, go to Church, or practice the teachings of Jesus Christ.  The same is true of Islamics.  Many simply do not closely follow the teachings of the Quran, or like many Christians (regarding the Bible) have such a non-literal interpretation as to render it of none affect.

The fact is that fundamentalist Christians are “harmless as doves” [Math 10:16].  Many millions live in this country and they are active in charity work and the ministry.  Notice that the Words of our God restrain our violent tendencies and “guide our feet into the way of peace” Luke 1:79.  To the contrary, fundamentalist Islamics are often extremely violent, and one need look no further than the Quran for the explanation.

Do you doubt this?  When was the last time you saw Americans crash planes into Islamic buildings for reward in heaven?  This is a wakeup call for Christians worldwide.  The Quran makes it clear that Jews and Christians are of the devil.  You must make up your own mind who you think is right.  My mind is already made-up!

Resting in the arms, of the Lord.
Bob

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.