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Author Topic: Peaceful religion isn't spelled Islam  (Read 36903 times)
nChrist
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« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2005, 08:30:33 AM »

Quote
Long before 9/11 back in 1996, when my son was preaching to  some muslims. He was beat to a pulp. Thats when I started to study about muslims. I have spoken out about muslims in 1997. I will always speak against the islamic faith. Then a false faith wants to rule the world, through violent activies. When a Christian gets beat through speaking his faith.

Dreamweaver,

I give thanks that your son wasn't killed. Voice of the Martyrs is an excellent resource for horrendous violence carried out against Christians all over the world. The horrible sadness involves many of things they were trying to do:  deliver food, give medical attention,  provide clean water sources, etc. However, they were willing to die to help, and many of them did.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 27:1 NASB  The LORD is my light and my salvation; Whom shall I fear? The LORD is the defense of my life; Whom shall I dread?
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« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2005, 08:51:07 AM »

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Dreamweaver Quote:

Matthew 5:43-48 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Dreamweaver,

I love this beautiful portion of Scripture. It describes a LOVE that is very difficult to show and achieve. Many other like portions of Scripture instruct us to show the same kind of LOVE JESUS CHRIST showed for us when he died for us on the Cross. This type of LOVE is called AGAPE LOVE, and it is specifically the LOVE of JESUS for us. AGAPE LOVE is an interesting study all by itself. We never achieve it, but we are to try.

Every time I think about AGAPE LOVE, I think about our missionaries and volunteers working all over the world trying to help the starving masses and people with all kinds of other needs. One of the biggest needs is always having JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour. It makes me cry when I think that many of our missionaries and volunteers go as lambs to the slaughter, and they never come back. I pray for them several times per day and ask all Christians to do the same. What they are doing is an example of AGAPE LOVE.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Matthew 3:11 NASB  "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
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« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2005, 11:48:08 AM »

Quote
Long before 9/11 back in 1996, when my son was preaching to  some muslims. He was beat to a pulp. Thats when I started to study about muslims. I have spoken out about muslims in 1997. I will always speak against the islamic faith. Then a false faith wants to rule the world, through violent activies. When a Christian gets beat through speaking his faith.

Dreamweaver,

I give thanks that your son wasn't killed. Voice of the Martyrs is an excellent resource for horrendous violence carried out against Christians all over the world. The horrible sadness involves many of things they were trying to do:  deliver food, give medical attention,  provide clean water sources, etc. However, they were willing to die to help, and many of them did.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 27:1 NASB  The LORD is my light and my salvation; Whom shall I fear? The LORD is the defense of my life; Whom shall I dread?

I too give thanks that your son wasn't killed. I also give thanks and prayers for all who are doing such work for the Lord. Witnessing to those that wish to kill us is indeed a love that many do not understand.

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« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2005, 12:33:19 PM »

That happened right here in the USA., Brothers Tom, and Roger. The boys dean, broke it up. This happened right on the High School grounds. From what I understand, the muslims were preaching, when my son answered them. With Jesus's sermon on the absolute sovereignty of God. All that did for him is harden his heart, against muslims.

In case some of you think a few of my posts look funny. I had a 2 hour running battle last night with a islamic idiot. Cheesy  Who though he was allow to break the forum rules.

Resting in the arms, of the Lord.
Bob

Zechariah 1:11 And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.
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« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2005, 12:48:19 PM »

I expect much more of this sort of thing to happen here in the U.S. as they attempt to further their cause.

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« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2005, 01:00:47 PM »

I expect much more of this sort of thing to happen here in the U.S. as they attempt to further their cause.


So do I brother Roger. I also expect more violent behavior, right here on CU. Well I for one, will not back down, from these tuna heads. Cheesy  While my wife was alive, she always said, I was stubborn in my beliefs. You know what..... she was right!  Grin

My son got supended for 7 days, the islamic idoits weren't supended! Due to the extra rights given to them by the Anti Christian Lawless Union. And everone wonders why I am against them. Roll Eyes  
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« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2005, 01:26:02 PM »

I understod it even before knowing this about your son. My youngest son had a run in with two Muslims at a place where he used to work. My son was only praying before his lunch when they attacked him. They are still working there and my son isn't so I fully understand.

(My son is trained in the skillful art of self defense. All he got out of it was bruised knuckles. The other two were taken to the hospital.)

 Cheesy Cheesy

« Last Edit: August 26, 2005, 01:28:22 PM by Pastor Roger » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2005, 03:00:18 PM »

Now, I will be quoting the koran, quran. To prove my points.

 Jesus was not the messiah, nor is he a part of

Trinity?

 
Jesus was not the messiah, nor is he a part of Trinity? Huh

[4:171]  O  people   of  the   Scripture  (Jews and Christians)! Do  not exceed  the limits  in  your religion, nor say of  Allah aught but the  truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam  (Mary), was (no more than) a  Messenger of Allah and  His Word, ("Be!" - and he  was) which He bestowed  on  Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by  Him;  so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say  not:  "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you.  For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory  be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all  that is in  the heavens and  all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

Muslims will repay Christians with an evil torment for rejecting the Quran?

[6:157] Or  lest you  (pagan Arabs)  should say:  "If only the Book had been sent down to us, we  would surely have been  better guided  than they  (Jews and Christians)."  So now  has  come unto  you  a clear proof (the  Qur'an) from your  Lord, and  a guidance and a  mercy. Who then  does more  wrong than one who rejects the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons,  signs,  revelations,  etc.)  of Allah and turns away therefrom? We shall  requite those who turn  away from Our  Ayat with an  evil torment, because  of  their  turning  away  (from them).

Muslims plant hatred of Christians?

[5:14] And from those who call themselves Christians, We took their covenant, but they have abandoned a good part of the Message  that was sent to  them. So We planted amongst them enmity and hatred till the Day  of  Resurrection  (when  they  discarded Allah's Book,  disobeyed Allah's  Messengers  and His Orders  and  transgressed  beyond  bounds  in Allah's disobedience), and Allah will inform them of what they used to do.

Muslims should fight Christians?

[9:29] Fight  against those  who (1)  believe not in Allah, (2) nor  in the Last  Day, (3) nor  forbid that which has  been forbidden by  Allah and  His Messenger (4) and those  who acknowledge not  the religion of truth (i.e.  Islam) among the  people of the  Scripture  (Jews and  Christians),  until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission,  and feel themselves subdued.

Christians are rightfully due painful torment?

[3:188] Think not that those who rejoice in what they have done  (or brought  about),  and love  to  be praised for what they  have not done,- think  not you that they are  rescued from the torment,  and for them is a painful torment.  Muslims will make sure Christians taste the severest

Torment for disbelieving the Quran? Huh

[10:68] They (Jews, Christians and pagans) say: "Allah has begotten a son (children)." Glory be to  Him! He is Rich (Free of all  wants). His is all  that is in the heavens and all  that is in the  earth.  No warrant you have for this. Do you say  against Allah what you know not.
[10:69] Say:  "Verily, those  who invent  lie  against Allah will never be successful" -
[10:70] A brief  enjoyment in this  world! - and  then unto Us will be their return, then We shall  make them taste the severest torment because they used to disbelieve  [in Allah,  belie His  Messengers, deny  and  challenge  His  Ayat  (proofs,  signs, verses, etc.).

Jesus only a messenger and will be a witness against Christians?

[4:159] And  there  is  none of  the  people  of  the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must believe in him ['Iesa (Jesus),  son of Maryam (Mary),  as only a  Messenger of  Allah and  a human  being, before  his  'Iesa  (Jesus)  or  a  Jew's  or  a Christian's death (at the time of the appearance of the  angel  of  death).  And  on  the  Day  of  Resurrection,  he  'Iesa  (Jesus)  will  be   a witness against them.

God does not guide Christians?  Huh

[5:51] O you who believe! Take  not the Jews and  the  Christians  as   Auliya'  (friends,   protectors, helpers, etc.),  they  are  but  Auliya'  to  one another. And  if any  amongst you  takes them as Auliya', then surely he  is one of them.  Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).

Islam also uses the Hadith (another "holy" book of Islam) that says Jihad, or holy war, is the second best thing to believing in Allah and his apostle (Muhammad). Allah's apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and his Apostle." The questioner then asked, "What is the next?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause." (Hadith vol. 1, no. 25).  So when you hear militant Muslims threatening “holy war”, you will now understand where that expression comes from their God.

As a Christian my beliefs are entirely incompatible with this.  Christians believe that Jesus was the Christ and Messiah, and only through his sacrifice can we obtain salvation from God’s righteous judgement and eternal damnation in hell for our sin.  Jesus preached an entirely different message than Muhammad,  in his famous “Sermon on the Mount”. The Sermon on the Mount contains Jesus' best known advice on having a healthy
relationship with God and people.

Now I will be watching this carefully. If it get to be to hard to keep the islamic dummys, off this thread, I will lock it.

Resting in the Lord.
Bob

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

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« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2005, 11:24:58 PM »

by Sher Zieve
ACLU Alliance with CAIR?
August 26, 2005 11:23 AM EST


For those who are still not familiar with the group CAIR--the Council on American-Islamic Relations--I'll provide some background information. Founded in 1994, CAIR is headquarted in Washington, DC and has thirty-one chapters and regional offices in the United States and Canada.

Of note, CAIR was founded by Nihad Awad, Omar Ahwad, Rafiq Jaber and other former members of the Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP). Jaber is also the current spokesman for the Bridgeview Mosque Foundation in Illinois; a mosque tied to the IAP and the Quranic Literacy Institute that were named in the 2004 drive-by murder of David Boim. The IAP and Quranic Literacy Institute were ordered by the court to pay Boim's family $156MM in restitution; money that had previously been raised in the US (as "charity" donations) by these Islamic organizations. *US donations used to finance terrorist activities and, subsequently, for the results of said terrorist activities--most interesting.

Note: The IAP has often been referred to as the American wing of Hamas--a terrorist group that has vowed to destroy Israel. Of interest, Hamas senior leader Mahmoud al-Zahar said in a recent interview with Arab newspaper Asharq Al Awsat: "We do not and will not recognize a state called Israel. This land is the property of all Muslims in all parts of the world. Let Israel die!" Suffice it to say, this is not an organization that has any desire or any plans for peace.

CAIR currently has enough political and "PC" (political-correctness) clout to cow the US political and business establishment. Even though three of its (now former) members were convicted of federal terrorism charges, CAIR has greatly increased its influence in the US. Of note are CAIR's intimidation of the publication National Review to stop [its] running advertisements for the books "The Life and Religion of Mohammed" and "The Sword of the Prophet" and the recent firing of talk-show host Michael Graham from ABC-Disney Radio for making anti-Islamo-fascist comments. Is a trend being established, here? Are all Radio talk-show hosts no longer going to be able to speak against Islamic terrorism? Watch out Rush, Praeger and Hannity! You may be next.

Islamic education in the US (are these Wahabee schools?) also appears to be in the process of attempting to take over US private school organizations--at least in Texas. In 2004, the Islamic Education Institute of Texas sought inclusion into TAPPS (Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools). As reported by the Houston Chronicle, Edd Burleson (Director of TAPPS) had the 'extreme audacity' to ask questions of the Islamic educational organization. Quoting the Islamic Quran, which calls upon Muslims to be violent against Christians and Jews, Burleson asked in a letter containing ten questions to the group: "Why do you wish to join an organization whose membership is basically in total disagreement with your religious beliefs?" and "Why do you wish to join an organization whose membership is basically in total disagreement with your religious beliefs?" As if asking these questions weren't cheeky enough, Burleson went on to ask about the Islamic organization's position on "the spread of Islam in America" and the objectives of the school "in this regard." A week later, Burleson sent another letter that included the question "Do you teach your students to 'Make war on them (Christians and Jews) until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme' (Koran 8:37)?" These questions were enough to bring the ACLU flying to Islam's defense. The ACLU and CAIR demanded an apology from Burleson! It appears that questions directed to Islamic organizations are no longer to be allowed in the USA. However, as we already know, reverse situations are allowed. Christians may be asked any and all questions and are allowed to be brow-beaten unmercifully by both Islam and the ACLU. Christians are not liked nor accepted by Islam. And if we have learned anything at all from its myriad suits against the teaching or even displays of Christianity, neither does the ACLU. Remember the ACLU's threatened suit against the County of Los Angeles, for merely having a small cross on its County Seal? One has to wonder if the ACLU would have threatened the county if the Islamic crescent had been present. Doubtful. But then, the ACLU is increasingly joining with CAIR on a number of battlefronts and lawsuits. A few of these include the following:

• The ACLU is working with CAIR and Amnesty International (a decidedly in-my-opinion Marxist group) to defend Ghassan Elashi and his brothers who were convicted of terrorism.

• In 2001, the ACLU joined CAIR and other Islamic support groups to challenge the detention of potential terrorists.

• In 2003, the ACLU joined CAIR and other Muslim advocacy groups to challenge portions of the Patriot Act.

• Also, in 2003, the Ohio chapter of the ACLU awarded its yearly "Liberty Flame Award" to the Ohio chapter of CAIR "for contributions to the advancement and protection of civil liberties."

• In 2004, the ACLU joined CAIR in demanding the FBI make its files public as to [its] surveillance of Chicago Muslim groups and 'expressed special concern today over the FBI's targeting of Muslims and Arabs in the Chicago community'. Note: Remember it was two Illinois groups (the IAP and Quranic Literacy Institute) that were convicted of terrorist murder.

• In North Carolina 2005, the ACLU joined forces with CAIR toward including swearing on the Koran (as opposed to the Bible) for Muslims. Note: The push for Shari'a law in Canada has already become a strong force. Will the US be next?


The above cites are only a few examples of the ACLU's increasing alliance with CAIR; an association that does not appear to have any indications of disbanding. Yet, the ACLU's affinity towards Christian groups and Christianity as a whole is nonexistent. Although some may wonder at the ACLU's agenda, I don't. Its current and past actions speak louder than any possible words. Don't believe me? Check the Net, yourself, for ACLU-CAIR alliances. The alignments are there for anyone willing to take the time to do so. I, for one, find it exceedingly troubling.

http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=1018&theType=NR

http://cndyorks.gn.apc.org/news/articles/lawsuit.htm

http://www.aclu-il.org/news/press/000223.shtml

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/07/27/Worldandnation/ACLU_sues_NC_to_allow.shtml
http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=546&theType=NR
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/004431.php



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« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2005, 11:50:56 PM »

WOW!

I think that the ACLU could better serve in Iran. They would be appreciated there. We could easily arrange for one-way tickets if they would agree to never come back. It sounds like a "win-win" and everyone would be happy.
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« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2006, 03:23:22 AM »

WOW!

I think that the ACLU could better serve in Iran. They would be appreciated there. We could easily arrange for one-way tickets if they would agree to never come back. It sounds like a "win-win" and everyone would be happy.
Brother, I will buy a tricket to help them out. On their one way trip to Iran, cause I doubt they will return.
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« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2006, 02:54:10 AM »

With the shape of the mideast right now....  I think it is a good idea to BUMP, this thread.

I found while researching this thread, very distasteful to me. The koran is full of lies, decite, mockery, and hate. Give me my Bible any day, over the koran/quram.
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« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2006, 09:41:57 AM »

With the shape of the mideast right now....  I think it is a good idea to BUMP, this thread.

I found while researching this thread, very distasteful to me. The koran is full of lies, decite, mockery, and hate. Give me my Bible any day, over the koran/quram.

   I am glad that you did bump this up.... I have read through it and my heart is sinking just thinking about the CLAIR and how our own Country is in jeopardy.
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« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2006, 11:10:58 PM »

Violence from the start.

Just prior to Muhammad's leaving for Medina, he received a "revelation" allowing him to fight the Meccans. He knew that in Medina, he had a group of armed men who would support him. Furthermore, in Medina, would be more distant from the Meccans and their attempts to oppress or kill him.

After moving to Medina, Muhammad began to have conflict with the Jews and pagans in the area. I'll focus on several incidents, not necessarily in chronological order, that illustrate Muhammad as a terrorist. The first terrorist incident involves Muhammad's command to his followers to "kill any Jew that comes under your power".

"The apostle said, "Kill any Jew that falls into your power." Thereupon Muhayyisa b. Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, 'You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?" Muhayyisa answered, "Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off."

The Apostle of Allah said: If you gain a victory over the men of Jews, kill them. So Muhayyisah jumped over Shubaybah, a man of the Jewish merchants. He had close relations with them. He then killed him. At that time Huwayyisah, brother of Muhayyisah had not embraced Islam. He was older than Muhayyisah. When he killed him, Huwayyisah beat him and said: O enemy of Allah, I swear by Allah, you have a good deal of fat in your belly from his property.

This murder was committed upon Muhammad's command. Note that this Muslim murderer would have killed a family member at the drop of a hat. Muhammad was no better than a bigoted criminal boss, ordering his men to wantonly murder Jewish people. Hitler did this. And, this is what the Serbs did to the Kosovan Muslims. Muhammad's command to murder Jews puts him in the same category as Milosovic, Hitler, and others who have persecuted Jews throughout history.

Here another man was murdered upon Muhammad's command. This man was 120 years old. He was no physical threat to Muhammad and he did not urge people to commit violent acts against Muhammad or the Muslims. There was no discussion with Jewish leaders, there was no dialogue with Abu Afak; it was just an outright murder of another one of Muhammad's critics. Afak urged the people who lived in Medina to doubt and leave Muhammad. Afak found that Muhammad's sayings were strange and dictatorial. He chided the Arabs that put their faith in Muhammad. Muhammad heard of this and viewed the 120 year old man as a threat to his credibility, not to his life. Nowhere does it say that Afak urged his fellow Arabs to attack or harm Muhammad. Yet for speaking his mind, for the benefit of his friends, this man was murdered by Muhammad.

"Though I knew whether it was man or jinn Who slew you in the dead of night (I would say naught)."

This statement displays that the Muslims knew exactly what they were doing. They knew it was cold-blooded murder that they were committing upon Muhammad's request. They wanted to keep it secret, they wanted to hide their evil deeds from the populace at large. That's why Umama said he wouldn't reveal who murdered Afak.

When I think of what type of people order their followers to commit murder, I only can think of organized crime bosses or corrupt political figures. Saddam Hussein comes to mind. How would an Iraqi be treated if he spoke out about Saddam? Amnesty International just reported that over 1500 political prisoners were executed in Iraq in one year. Or take the Ayatollah Khomenni. His fundamentalist Islamic regime had other dissident Iranians murdered all over the world. These murderous Muslims represent exactly what Muhammad was all about. They follow Muhammad's methodology: kill those who are a threat to your credibility and power over others.

The third incident involves Muhammad's request for his men to murder a women named Asma b. Marwan. When the apostle heard what she had said he said, "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" Umayr b. Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, "You have helped God and His apostle, O Umayr!" When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, "Two goats won't butt their heads about her", so Umayr went back to his people.

Now there was a great commotion among B. Khatma that day about the affair of bint [girl] Marwan. She had five sons, and when Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, "I have killed bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma. Withstand me if you can; don't keep me waiting." That was the first day Islam became powerful among B. Khatma; before that those who were Muslims concealed the fact. The first of them to accept Islam was Umayr b. Adiy who was called the "Reader", and Abdullah b. Aus and Khuzayma b. Thabit. The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam."

Let's sum this up and put it in perspective. Muhammad had al-Harith b. Suwayd b. Samit killed. This upset Abu Afak, so he spoke out against it. So, likewise, Muhammad had Abu Afak murdered. This offended Asma b. Marwan and she spoke out against that evil deed. She encouraged her fellow tribesmen to take action against Muhammad. When Muhammad heard of what she had said, he had her killed also. At first glance, this order to kill Asma might seem justifiable. Asma was calling for someone to kill Muhammad. It is understandable for Muhammad to be bothered by that.

But let's look deeper at the event and examine the context of Asma's relationship to her tribe.

First of all, Asma has seen Muhammad in action. She had seen him for what he was, a cold blooded murderer. Of course she spoke out against a murderer. Second, her tribe was not under Muhammad's rule. Perhaps they had a treaty with Muhammad, perhaps not. Either way, this women was free to speak her mind. If a treaty existed, and if Muhammad thought that she was out of line, Muhammad could have complained to her tribe's leaders, and they could have commanded her to be silent or dealt with the situation.

What's more note worthy about this event is that after she was murdered, Muhammad said "Two goats won't butt their head about her", meaning no one will care about her death. (Well except her children and her family). Also note, that there were already people from her tribe who had become Muslims. Certainly these people were not going to listen to her. The point is this: if no one really cared about her being murdered, then no one really cared about what she had to say. Her people also knew about Muhammad having Abu Afak murdered, and they didn't care about that either. Even in that light, no one would take her serious enough to listen to her urgings to murder Muhammad, who was the leader of a powerful group of people. None of her people were willing to put their lives on the line for her words. The bottom line is that Asma b. Marwan was not a legitimate threat to Muhammad. She didn't scare him, she was not the leader of her tribe, and she had little or no influence. She was little more than a nuisance to him. And one wonders why Muhammad didn't kill her himself? It was always easier for Muhammad to have someone else do his killing.

Put the shoe on the other foot. Throughout the Middle East, there are Muslims who call America the Great Satan. These Muslims have called for the violent destruction of America. Frequently great crowds have gathered to chant "death to America, or death to one of its presidents." At times these people have even murdered Americans. Now, if America, or its president, were to use Muhammad's standards, they would engage in killing multitudes Muslims, because Muslims criticized America. America could justify its action by appealing to Muhammad’s standards of treating those who criticized him. But we know that the chanting of a crowd of hot-heads does not necessitate the use of violence against them. There are better ways to deal with critics and criticisms. Frequently, in the passion of youth, people do and say things they don't intend to act out, or are not able to carry out. Given time, people can change, and pursue peaceful dialog. But if one applied Muhammad's standards, American would be justified in bombing Tehran; Israel would be justified in wiping out hundreds of thousands of Arab Muslims.

The only conclusion is that this lady troubled Muhammad and he wanted her silenced. Again, like Abu Afak, she was murdered in the night while she slept. What type of people murder those that sleep? Criminals!

What alarms me the most about Islam is its disposition to violence and use of violence as a standard of God's will. Umayr is a perfect example of this. Here is a Muslim man, a friend of Muhammad's, acting upon Muhammad's request and going into a woman's home under the cover of night. He comes upon the women, sleeping in her bed with her child, and murders her by plunging a sword through her body.

Afterwards, Muhammad tells the man that he has "helped God and his apostle". If Allah were really threatened by this woman, I think He could have killed her Himself, don't you? Does God need men to sneak around in the night and murder sleeping women?

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« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2006, 11:30:43 PM »

Terrorism in the koran
Note that my comments are in [ ] brackets

Muhammad taught his followers to oppress or kill non-Muslims. Generally, Jews and Christians were allowed to live as such, provided they paid a special tax. This tax is Jizya, a tax revenue given to the Muslims to make up for revenues they lost from no longer dealing in pagan activities. If the Jews and Christians refused to pay this extortion tax they would have to convert to Islam or be killed. Non-Jews and non-Christians, such as idolaters or pagans, had to convert to Islam or be killed. Generally they didn't have the option of paying the tax. Here is the verse that teaches Muslims to oppress Jews and Christians:

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, [which is Islam that abolishes all other religions] of the people of the Book, [meaning the Jews and the Christians] until they pay the Jizya [the tax imposed upon them] with willing submission and feel themselves subdued . [with humiliation and submission to the government of Islam.] Sura 9:29."

The order to subjugate or kill Christians and Jews is in that verse. It is clear that Muhammad ordered his followers to fight those Christians and Jews to convert them or pay the Jizya, and if they didn't convert or pay, do you think that he told the followers to let them go in peace? It is very clear: convert, pay with submission, or die. The background for this is found in "The Life of Muhammad", op cit, page 620,

"until they [the Jews and Christians] pay the poll tax out of hand being humbled", (i.e). as a compensation for what you fear to lose by the closing of the markets. God gave them compensation for what He cut off from them in their former polytheism by what He gave them by way of poll tax from the people of scripture."

Muhammad told his followers to attack the Jews and Christians. If they humble themselves and submit to the Muslims, but choose to remain Christian or Jewish, then they had to pay the Muslims. Again, as Muhammad's circumstances changed, Allah changed. Now Muhammad was an extortionist. Also note that the tax levied upon the Christians and Jews was not to support the state in general affairs, it was to compensate the Muslims. Muhammad was exactly like Mafia crime boss, making others pay for "protection," except it was Christians and Jews who really needed protection from the Muslims! Here is the verse in the Qur'an that teaches Muslims to attack and kill pagans.

"When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Sura 9:5

The background for this verse is found in "The Life of Muhammad",  page 617-619. This a very long passage, so I have only quoted a portion of it:

A discharge came down, [Muhammad received a supposed revelation from God], permitting the breaking of the agreement between the apostle and the polytheists that none should be kept back from the temple when he came to it, and that none need fear during the sacred months. That there was a general agreement between him and the polytheists; meanwhile there were particular agreements between the apostle and the Arab tribes for specified terms. And there came down about it and about the disaffected who held back from him in the raid on Tabuk, [a Christian town Muhammad attacked, and forced them to pay him], .....So travel through the land for four months and know that you cannot escape God and that God will put the unbelievers to shame. And a proclamation from God and His apostle to men on the day of the greater pilgrimage that God and His apostle are free from obligation to the polytheists, i.e., after this pilgrimage. So if you repent it will be better for you; and if you turn back know that you cannot escape God. Inform those who disbelieve, about a painful punishment except those polytheists with whom you have made a treaty. .....If one of the polytheists, i.e. one of those whom I have ordered you to kill, asks your protection, give it him so that he may hear the word of God; then convey him to his place of safety.

Basically, Muhammad had an agreement with a number of Arab tribes. Some were peaceful with him, others disliked him. "Allah" gave Muhammad a "revelation" allowing him to break his word, the "agreement" with the pagan Arabs and attack them after the four sacred months were over. Once again,  Muhammad had gained power, and things changed. Now Muhammad was permitted to lie, i.e., break his agreement, and make war upon the pagans. Muhammad's circumstances changed, and Allah changed again.

Note that in the last quoted paragraph, it is supposed to be God telling the Muslims to go out and kill people. Some of these people had gotten along peacefully with the Muslims. But because they didn't follow Muhammad, they were going to be attacked.

Recent muslim writings on islam and terrorism.

Several muslims have written about the reasons they are allowed to wage war. From "The qur’anic concept of war", by Pakistani Brigadier S.K. Malik, it says, [in the preface]

"But in islam war is waged to establish supremacy of the Lord only when every other argument has failed to convince those who reject His Will and work against the every purpose of the creation of mankind." "Many Western Scholars have pointed their accusing fingers at some of the above verses in the qur'an to be able to contend that world of Islam is in a state of perpetual struggle against the non-Muslims. As to them it is a sufficient answer to make... that the defiance of God's authority by one who is His slaves exposes that slave to the risk of being held guilty of treason and as such a one, in the perspective of Islamic law, is indeed to be treated as a sort of that cancerous growth on that organism of humanity.... It thus becomes necessary to remove the cancerous malformation even if it be by surgical means, in order to save the rest of humanity."

The muslim writer states that those who reject Islam are viewed as a cancerous growth to be violently removed, i.e., murdered. And, note that the Muslim writer basically agrees with the "Western Scholars" who say that Islam is indeed "in a state of perpetual war", with non-Muslims. In viewing what has happened in Algeria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Nigeria, Sudan, Israel, etc. it appears the reverse is true, Islam is actually the cancerous growth that has caused so much death and terror in the world.
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