Unforgivable sin

[Jemidon2004]

I think the "unpardonable" sin is exactly what it says. According to the Word in Romans 1:23-27, i believe it says God gave them over to reprobate minds. Showing that they were going to continue in their sin no matter what, so God, in His Sovereign Justice, gave them over to what was inevitably to happen. The "Unpardonable" sin states "Blasphemy again'st the Holy Spirit, or as the idea is given, utter rejection of God, and anything to do with God. However, we cannot say who has and who has not committed this sin because we do not know the intents of a person's heart. Only God does...so Only God will know whether or not someone reject Him. As Scripture points out, we as believers are Sealed with the Holy Spirit of God...so how is it then that we reject something we've been sealed with. That's saying that we can break a seal of GOD, which we cannot. So the 'unpardonable' sin is exactly what Christ says it is, unpardonable...which goes hand in hand with God giving man over to his reprobate mind...where man has no hope of salvation because he has utterly rejected his Creator. Just a few thoughts. God Bless.
Those are just my thoughts on the subject...don't shoot at me yet!!LOL

Joshua

[Jemidon2004]

Just re-read what i wrote...let me correct my last statement...God gives them over to their minds of flesh, because He knows they will NOT come to Christ and have completely hardened their hearts  to His beckoning. Sorry if there was any confusion.

Joshua

[BigD]

Jemi:
You seem to be digging yourself into a deeper hole. Romans 1:23-27 has nothing to do with Matthew 12:22-28.

22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.  
23And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.  
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?  
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.  
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

PLEASE STUDY the above passages carfully and in the context in which they were written.

In Vers 22 we see that one that was possessed with a devil, blind and dumb, was brought to Jesus and was healed.

Jesus, according to verse 28, cast out the devil by the power of the Holy Spirit, and the man was healed.

The Pharisees said that Jesus did that through the power of the prince of the devil (Beelzebub), verse 24.

Therefore, the Pharisees committed the unpardonable sin of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. A sin that they could not be forgiven in "THIS WORLD (AGE)"   or "THE WORLD (AGE) TO COME."

Q: What world (age) is Jesus talking about?
A: The world (age) in which Jesus was upon the earth. At the time Jesus was upon the earth, they were in the "kingdom age," when the Law was in effect, and the age Jesus came to fulfill. Way back in 2 Sameul 7, Israel was promised a King and Kingdom that would last forever. John the Baptist, Jesus and the 12 preached "the kingdom at hand," (about to be set up.)  We know that it still hadn't happenedd yet because Israel, as a nation, rejected their King and His Kingdom. It is still future - "THE WORLD (AGE) TO COME," AFTER this dispensation (AGE) of grace is concluded at the rapture.

We know from Romans 11:7-12 that Israel has been temporarily blinded (set aside). The "gospel of the kingdom" has been replaced by "the gospel of the grace of God." These are two opposing gospels. The Law is not in effect.  Those saved under "the gospel of the kingdom" have an earthly home/kingdom to look forward to. Those saved under the preaching of "the gospel of the grace of God" have a heavenly home to look for, NOT an earthly kingdom.

Therefore, the believer today does not fit in "THIS WORLD (AGE)" that Jesus was upon the earth, OR the WORLD (AGE) when Jesus returns and establishes His Kingdom upon the earth.

The world we live in today is the "dispensation (AGE) of grace," NOT the kingdom age.

It took me many years to understand the abpve verses. ONLY because I didn't read it in its context, and tried, like you, to read something else into it.

[Jemidon2004]

Ok...since i'm digging a deeper hold i didn't know I was digging, i'll continue digging. Romans 1:23-27 paints a picture of what will HAPPEN to those who utterly reject the Holy Spirit. Remember what happened at Sodom and Gomoraah? They rejected God and His statutes...and lived according to their own fleshly desires. Ultimately the Pharisees did the same thing. They ultimately rejected Christ, who was the LAW and who fulfilled the Law. Thus they were given over to the reprobate minds. I see that Jesus performed the miracle and they didn't believe, and for their unbelief, they blasphemied against God because His SPIRIT was at work. Another thing: I have studied the text in the context in which it was written and I'm not reading something else into it. It's clear to me that those who utterly reject the Holy Spirit, will be given over to their reprobate minds. So that's how the two passages corrolate. I"m well aware that the dispensation we're living in today is the age of Grace...i may not be the smartest cookie in the batch, but I know that much. The words "neither in this world, neither in the world to come" signify that no matter how long, they will have been sealed to that fate. Thus when this world passes away, and the new world (new heavens and earth of Revelation 21) comes, they still won't be forgiven and will suffer the second death. That much is clear. The word "World" is translated "Aion" or "aijvwn" which means:

#  for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
# the worlds, universe
# period of time,

notice that it says in the world to come, signifying forever, or the eternity to come. Which fits right along with the new heavens and new earth or new WORLD that will be ruled by Messiah. I can't believe you said that the Believer doesn't fit in the world to come. Scripture is clear that we'll reign with Christ during the millenial kingdom, and be with Him always, even in the new heavens and new earth. So, once again, i'll keep digging, I may come out to the other side of the earth, when i do, i'll start digging again. Cause if you don't dig, how will you find. And for the record...don't tell me what i am or am not reading into. You havn't a clue what studying i've done on the subject, so you can't make that assumption accurately. Just be careful before you make any assumptions like that about me. God Bless

Joshua

[BigD]

Jemi:
If you are comfortable in the hole that you have dug; then just stay in it.

The unpardonable sin that the Pharisees committed was when they accursed Jesus of healing the man with a demon by the power of a devil instead of the Holy Spirit.

In this age in which we are not living is the "age of grace." It IS NOT the kingdom age that Jesus was living in while on earth. The age to come is after the 2nd coming of Christ and His establishment of His Kingdom upon the earth.

This present dispensation of grace was not even known yet in Matthew. It was still a secret "since the world began."

My contention is that the "unpardonable sin" CANNOT be committed by the believer today.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[Jemidon2004]

lol. I never said the Believer could commit it.  The Age of the Dispensation of Grace is what WE"RE LIVING IN. Even the lowliest of Bible students can see this. How is it that we're saved? by GRACE...thus showing us that we are under Grace...we're in an age of Grace.

Joshua

[BigD]

Q: Did Jesus live in this dispensation of grace?

Q: When Jesus returns will it be in the dispensation of grace?

A: To both Q's is NO!

Q: Where there any members of "the Body of Christ," the Church for today, upon the earth at the time that Jesus ministered?

Q: Will there be any members of "the Body of Chrsit.", the Chruch for today, at the 2nd coming of Christ?

A: Again NO to both of them.

I hope you can see that Paul in Romans 1 was not referring back to Matthew. He was referring to mankind way back prior to the Tower of Babel. To all who reject God.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

Just two cents worth:

Romans 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

There is only one law violation or sin that will result in eternal condemnation: REJECTION OF JESUS CHRIST AS LORD AND SAVIOUR!

This is the age and dispensation of God's Grace, and ALL sins are forgiven to them who have faith and accept JESUS CHRIST as their Lord and Saviour.

So, disbelief unto physical death is the only unpardonable sin. The BLOOD OF JESUS is all powerful. The Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross was perfect and complete. When a person is Saved, born again, the sin of rejection and disbelief is forgiven. The same is true of all sins for the lost. They are only forgiven when they accept Jesus Christ as their LORD AND SAVIOUR. Those who physically die in their sins WITHOUT JESUS will be punished for eternity. Don't muddy the water by trying to include God's promises to Israel that are yet to be fulfilled.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 5:17-18  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Romans 5:1  Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 5:21  That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 5:17-18  For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)  Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

I Corinthians 1:30  But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Ephesians 2:1-7  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

I Timothy 1:14-15  And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

II Corinthians 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I Corinthians 1:9  God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 3:24  Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Galatians 5:1  Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[BigD]

BEP:
Agree with everthing you have posted. However, rejection of the "free gift" of God's grace is not the "unpardonable sin" mentioned in Matthew 12:31 which is under discussion.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[Jemidon2004]

Oh for pete's sake...give me a break dude. rejection of Jesus Christ as Savior and God and the utter rejection of all that is God, IS THE UNPARDONABLE SIN. Once man has done this, he cannot be saved, he will be given over to his reprobate mind. How much clearer can I get...I CAN'T.

Joshua

[Bronzesnake]

Oh for pete's sake...give me a break dude. rejection of Jesus Christ as Savior and God and the utter rejection of all that is God, IS THE UNPARDONABLE SIN. Once man has done this, he cannot be saved, he will be given over to his reprobate mind. How much clearer can I get...I CAN'T.

Joshua

Ya! What he said!

Bronzesnake

[BigD]

Jemi:
Most definately agree with you that those who reject the "free gift" of God's grace will be condemned to hell. However, that is not the subject of Matthew 12:22-30 - "the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" - "the unpardonable sin".

In the above verses, the Pharisees are accusing Jesus of healing the man with a devil by the power of Beelzbut, the chief of the devils (vs 24). THAT was the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, that Jesus is speaking of. WHY is that so hard for you to accept? It isn't to hard to understand if you one reads and studies the Bible in the context in which it is written.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[nChrist]

BEP:
Agree with everthing you have posted. However, rejection of the "free gift" of God's grace is not the "unpardonable sin" mentioned in Matthew 12:31 which is under discussion.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

BigD,

If the CROSS never happened, you have a point, BUT the CROSS did happen.

The answers you either don't understand or reject are at the CROSS. This is really basic. It is past time for you to study:

The reason for the CROSS.

What happened at the CROSS.

What changed at the CROSS.

The absolute REALITY OF THE CROSS.

The basics of sins forgiven because of THE CROSS.

NO CONDEMNATION for those who are in JESUS.

BigD, go back to the basics of the CROSS and SALVATION.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1Corinthians 1:18  For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

[BigD]

BEP:
Matthew 12:22-32 (King James Version)  

22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.

23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Would you PLEASE read the above passage and then explain to me each verse in its context.

It appears to me that, as verse 31 says: ""ALL manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven; but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven."

PLEASE tell me What was the sin of blasphemy that the Pharisees committed? How do we commit that sin today?Also, I would like for you to show me the purpose of the cross prior to the raising up of Saul/Paul. Was it a blessing to Isreal or a curse the the Jews should repent of (Acts 2:14-19)?

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[nChrist]

BigD,

Brother, the answers to your questions are already posted in overwhelming detail. A repeat shouldn't be necessary for something this basic. Just look at all the information already posted.

You are focused on a portion of Scripture prior to the CROSS. Look in the same general area for JESUS describing the impossibility of a rich man entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Take it out of context, and it would be impossible for rich people to be saved. Put it in context, and you will see that what is impossible without Jesus is POSSIBLE IN CHRIST.

Your argument only makes sense if THE CROSS NEVER HAPPENED. However, the CROSS DID HAPPEN, so you can choose to believe the promises of GOD or reject them. It's just as simple as that. I choose to believe the promises of Almighty God without doubt of any kind.

Brother, one of the most basic MUSTS for studying the Holy Bible is applying BEFORE THE CROSS vs. AFTER THE CROSS! If you realize the VAST differences and changes, you wouldn't be asking these questions. For a saved person, the BLOOD OF JESUS is either sufficient for the forgiveness of sins or not. Almighty God and the Holy Bible proclaim that the BLOOD OF JESUS is all sufficient for the forgiveness of sins. You can choose to believe or reject that absolute fact! I choose to believe it without any doubts at all.

If you don't choose to believe the promises of God, we will simply have to agree to disagree. I'll simply tell you to study your Bible and leave it at that.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Colossians 1:12-14  Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: