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1  Prayer / General Discussion / Where Are The Long Timers?? on: May 19, 2011, 11:02:14 AM
Where are all the long timers?
Tom, Paul, Bob etc etc??

Bronzesnake
2  Prayer / General Discussion / Bronzesnake Is here on: May 19, 2011, 10:49:38 AM
Hello my friends!
It has been far far too long, and I have missed you, and so I got man e-mail from Bob last night and decided to drop by.

My health has not been good, but I'm not here to whine!
My sweet Sally G, Staffordshire terrier is 14 years now, and is in the final stages of her life with Lymphoma...so heart breaking, I love her so much and this is double tragedy because st our beloved Doberman, Arrow to the same type of cancer a few years back...well about eight, nine years back.
He was a once in a life time dog, he really was, but God really blessed us and now I realise Sally is also a rare, special animal as well.
I could go on and on!
Anyway...this hurts.

Don't want to completely bum ya'll out, and so on a happy note, our second son, Jason completed his three years of collage and now is employed with an exciting firm programming and web design, as he also builds his own business!
Our youngest, brandon has worked fulltime for over a year now after completing high school, and has applied to several collages and is extremely talented in sketch art.

I , as many here know, am disabled and I have recently applied for on on line course in creation/evolution, and upon completion I will have a masters! yes, it's on-line but the source is very credible and the course is exciting!

John
3  Theology / General Theology / Re: antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 11, 2009, 12:46:25 AM
Hello Tom.
Please don't worry about this discussion. Take care of yourself brother. I continue to pray for you each night my friend.

I am in agreeance with pretty much your entire post with one small exception.
I beleiev the reference to "The deadly wound that is healed" is actually in relation to a false death and resurrection of the antichrist, as he attempts to fool Jews from scriptures within the Old Testament which prophecy about the details of the "coming" Messiah.

Take care my brother.

John
4  Theology / General Theology / Re: antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 10, 2009, 12:28:47 PM
Yes I agree that if we're going to get to the truth we must stick strictly with scriptures Tom.
Although I do find it very interesting when I see mythological names that have common biblical counterparts...still, I do take the point.

Looking forward to your posts Tom, and others.

John
5  Theology / General Theology / Re: antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 09, 2009, 03:45:32 PM
I just googled, yahoo'd, and bing'd a bunch of quran and 666's.  SCARY stuff!

Yes this is extremely interesting. Especially when the Koran says Mohammad believed the angel in the cave, who appeared to him was satan, and upon seeing this evil angel Mohammad ran away, only to return the next night where he was fooled into believing this evil angel was an angel of light and thereafter dictated the entire Koran to him.

Also, when we read scriptures regarding the execution method used during the wrath of God, beheading is listed, which we all know the Islamists love to employ.

yes, I believe this "false prophet" will be the Islamic "Mahdi" which is their saviour who can only come when the Muslims make war with the non Muslim world. This is the reason we have such bloodthirsty war being waged by these fundamentalist Islamists today.
Take a look at virtually every major battle going on in the world today, and you will find the Islamists fingerprint.

Take care sister.

John
6  Theology / General Theology / Re: antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 09, 2009, 01:55:45 PM
"sons of God" appears in five verses from two books in the Old Testament. Two verses are found in Genesis 6. The other three are in the book of Job. From the book of Job, the context clearly indicates that "sons of God" are angelic beings.
 I understand that in the New Testament "sons of God" always refer to redeemed human beings.

Now, the argument I’m hearing from some sources is that “we know from the New testament that angels are asexual, and therefore these “sons of God” could not have been angels” however, when we take a close look at this, we see all is not what is may appear to be.


(Matthew 22:23-30) On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Him and questioned Him, saying, "Teacher, Moses said, 'IF A MAN DIES, HAVING NO CHILDREN, HIS BROTHER AS NEXT OF KIN SHALL MARRY HIS WIFE, AND RAISE UP AN OFFSPRING TO HIS BROTHER.' "Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no offspring left his wife to his brother; so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. "And last of all, the woman died. "In the resurrection therefore whose wife of the seven shall she be? For they all had her." But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures, or the power of God. "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

We can extrapolate from those scriptures that “in the resurrection” men will no longer have “relations” with women. However it doesn’t say that. It says they shall not “marry” women, nor be given in “marriage” I agree, this most likely implies there will be no physical relations, however it in no way is emphatic that there “can” be no physical relations. I can’t extrapolate from these scriptures that evil angelic beings back in the time of Noah, and prior, did not commit evil unholy physical sins with the daughters of men.
I can deduce that “in the resurrection” both men and angels of Heaven are no to be “married” It doesn’t make any declarations about what happened prior to the “resurrection”

I’ll go even further…these scriptures are specifically identifying the angles, as angles of “Heaven” In Jude 3 . 6 , we see another group of angles, who abandoned their positions in Heaven, therefore by definition, they are no longer angels of Heaven, but were cursed to become “fallen stars” “demons” “evil spirits”

Jude 3 . 6  “And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home --these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.”

I could make the argument, that by omission, the scriptures in question actually could implicate “fallen angles” who did not keep their positions of authority, as being guilty of physical sin with daughters of men.

In the resurrection there will be no murder, no lies, no tears, no death, etc.
That does not imply these things never happened.

Take care my friends.
John
7  Theology / General Theology / Re: antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 09, 2009, 01:27:45 PM
Hello my friends.
I agree with both Roger and Tom that we must be careful in our renditions of what each specific "title" or "name" may be translated into from the origional language.
Having said that, are we to simply give up and not try and understand what these specific names, words mean?

We need to take the scriptures in context in order to make the proper identification, and we also need to search for corroborating scriptures, and we can also look to other sources.
For example...

Anak
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Anak (disambiguation).

According to the Book of Numbers, during the conquest of Canaan by the Israelites, Anak (spelt as both ענק and as הענק depending upon the reference) was a well known figure, and a forefather of the Anakites (aka. Anakim) who have been considered strong and tall descendants of the Nephilim (Numbers 13:33). The use of the word "nephilim" in this verse is possibly used to describe the height of the inhabitants as gigantic. The text states that Anak was a Rephaite (Deuteronomy 2:11) and a son of Arba (Joshua 15:13). Etymologically, Anak means [long] neck.

The sons of Anak are first mentioned in Numbers 13. The Israelite leader Moses sends twelve spies representing the twelve tribes of Israel to scout out the land of Canaan, and give a full report to the congregation. The spies enter from the Negev desert and journey northward through the Judaean hills until they arrive at the brook of Eshcol near Hebron, where reside Sheshai, Ahiman, and Talmai, the sons of Anak. After the scouts have explored the entire land, they bring back samples of the fruit of the land; most notably a gigantic cluster of grapes which requires two men to carry it on a pole between them. The scouts then report to Moses and the congregation, that "the land indeed is a land flowing with milk and honey," but ten of the twelve spies discourage the Israelites from even attempting to possess the land, for they reported that the men were taller and stronger than the Israelites, and moreover the sons of Anak dwell in the land, and that they felt like grasshoppers in their presence.

The Anakites are later mentioned briefly in the books of Deuteronomy, Joshua, and Judges. In Joshua, Caleb, one of the twelve spies sent by Moses into Canaan, later drove out the descendants of Anak — his three sons — from Hebron, also called Kirjath Arba.

Anak could be related to the Sumerian god Enki.[citation needed] Robert Graves, considering the relationship between the Anakites and Philistia (Joshua 11:21, Jeremiah 47:5), identifies the Anakim with Anax, the giant ruler of the Anactorians in Greek mythology.

References
^ Black, Matthew W. (2001). Peake's commentary on the Bible. Routledge. ISBN 0-4152-6355-7. 
^ "These Anakim seem to have come from Greece, as members of the Sea-peoples' confederation which caused the Egyptians so much trouble in the fourteenth century B.C." Robert Graves. The Greek Myths, 88.3. New York: 1955.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anak"


I have given specific verse by verse explanations of what I believe the scriptures are telling us. Perhaps it would be helpful if others would do the same useing their proof and corroboration.

Take care brothers.
I am really looking forward to unlocking this mystery!

John

8  Theology / General Theology / Re: antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 08, 2009, 07:35:52 PM
Quote
First, I don't think this study is contentious at all, rather the attempted study of the biggest questions of Bible Prophecy. We can all view this as a Brotherly discussion where we are exploring some of the most difficult portions of the Bible.

Thanks you for that brother! Whew!

I can agree with your answer, but I would also like to point out that whoever these "sons of God" are, the offspring were "giants" and "men of renown" If these "sons of God" did in fact refer to descendants of Seth, then we should be able to look at these descendants, and Seth and his contemporaries and see whether the scriptures describe any of their offspring as "giants" or "men of renown" Otherwise, we run the danger of inserting non scriptural interpretations into the debate.

Quote
Why does the Bible refer to them as the "daughters of men" as opposed to the "Daughters of God"? Some scholars believe they are the wicked posterity of Cain

I would feel very good about such an identification, but again, I would like to see scriptural corroboration for it first.

Great to be discussing here again my friends!!

John
9  Theology / General Theology / Re: antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 08, 2009, 02:58:30 PM
Hello again brother.

I apologise, but I am not comprehending what you are pointing out.
Please allow me to try and work it out...

Quote
Actually the distinction is not made at all in that line of thinking. Take another look at the scriptures that I gave. The "sons of God" or "children of God" are quite frequently humans that are being referred to and not just angels but they are ones that are following in line with God. .

OK, I comprehend that, however that line of thinking just confuses the specific scripture.
Here's why...

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

OK this verse is specific...when MEN began to multiply that daughters were born of them. No mention of "sons of God" at all here. However the very next verse mentions a separate faction, not MEN, who are called "sons of God"
These two verses put into context tell us that human men had human daughters who were so beautiful that these "sons of God" just had to have them...

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Now if I use your thinking this verse Gen 6:2 would read...
"That the men saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and took them wives of all which they chose."
Again, redundant and confusing.


This following verse tells us what that sinful union produced.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown. (giants were born through this evil union - Goliath)

When I try to comprehend these three verses using your thinking, the scriptures become confused and redundant. I can see no other scriptures which are so.


"When the term children of men or sons or daughters of men are used it is in regards to those humans that are not living in accordance with God and it is this same group that is also called the children of satan. Those angels that have fallen are not and will not be called "sons of God"

The term "sons of God" is used in the context of being PRIOR to the evil act.
Scriptures tell us these angels, or sons of God were punished and imprisoned in the bottomless pit because of this disobedience.

My friend, again, please do not mistake my search for arrogance or aggression. I am honestly attempting to work out the scriptural facts and nothing more.
In this particular instance, these scriptures make the best cohesive sense to me, only when we separate these "sons of man" with the "men" who gave birth to beautiful daughters.
Please, if you could quote these verses and put them in a sensible literal context, I could agree with you on, I would be most happy to do so. Honestly.

Take care friend.

John
10  Theology / General Theology / Re: antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 08, 2009, 12:49:03 PM

Hello Roger and Bob my brothers!

OK, I'm reading your posts as carefully as I possibly can here, because I want the truth.

Please allow me to quote you Roger...
Quote
This is something that is not really clear here who is meant. When we have a question such as this it is always best to let scripture interpret scripture. If we look through the rest of scripture we do see where God refers to certain angels as the sons of God. The book of Job is an example of this. Take note though that even though Satan is an angel he is never referred to as a son of God.

Yes, I agree. So how can we know which "sons of God" are referred to in this particular scripture?

Well, the distinction is made my friend.
The scriptures differentiate from "sons of God" and "daughters of men"
so we know in this example that the sons of God are not human. This is scripture asserting this fact, and not my own opinion.

Quote
Next take into consideration what God says about angels and marriage.

Mat 22:30  For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Yes, at the resurrection this is how it will be.
I don't believe this scripture expresses that angels were not able to have relations with women, or that they did not in the past do just that because if this was true then we are forced to ignore scriptures which clearly tells us they did and were punished for it.

Also, it is important to note that satan was not listed specifically, or even inferred as one of those fallen stars who were guilty of mating with human women.
The scriptures do tell us that those fallen angles who committed this sin were in fact imprisoned in a place called the Abyss until the end days - a place which evil demonic spirits who possessed men in the scriptures were terrified of.


Hello Bob!
Please allow me to quote you as well my friend.
I am having some real problems posting. When I get down a paragraph or more, and when I try to underling, use bold text and right clicking on any text. When I attempt to do these the text flips back to the beginning and I cannot complete...any ideas?
So I will use simple quotation marks here Bob.


"Revelation 12:9 nd the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

If I take the scriptures literally, then there in Heaven is satan and his follower fallen angels...but, at the same time, we have another group of "fallen stars" who are not in Heaven, but who are imprisoned in the bottomless pit.
So, scripturally speaking, there are at least three separate groups of satan's underlings in scriptures during the same time period.

1) satan and his one third in Heaven.
2) Apollyon and his group in the Abyss
3) Those demonic spirits identified at least once in scriptures as "Legion" who are free on earth and able to posses faithless humans.

"Satan's banishment from Heaven, satan will indwell Antichrist at the mid-tribulation point. When he does so, he will make this man of lawlessness, the antichrist, the literal embodiment of satan himself. It is satan who will provide antichrist with the power and authority to rule over the entire world, in every aspect of its functioning."

OK, this is the most difficult part for me.
If I use scriptures only then I must come to the conclusion that satan "personally" does not indwell the man of sin, but rather as part of his (satan's) plan to usurp God, satan uses his chief evil angel Apollyon to accomplish this part of the plan. I know this is controversial, and as I said, if I am wrong scripturally then please let me know because I want only scriptural truth, and not my fallible understanding.
This does not in any way negate the fact that it is satan's kingdom of evil completing his will, and therefore it is ultimately satan who is responsible for the entire deviation, and therefore, we can still truthfully say that YES it is the spirit of satan who indwells this antichrist. So this does not  negate satan's guilt, or lead position or actions at all.
If I am under boss of the Mafia and I order you to kill the boss of bosses as it were, so I can become king of the mob, I am not guilty of murder ? As well as conspiracy to commit murder? As well as attempting to usurp the king? I would be a killer. In fact, I would be even more guilty than the trigger man!

"God tells us that He will allow satan, through his indwelling of antichrist, to wreak as much havoc and destruction on this earth as possible. The Bible clearly states that antichrist will derive his power from the Dragon, satan himself."

Is it not curious that the scriptures do not specifically state that satan IS the antichrist, but rather  scriptures state the antichrist "derives" his power from the dragon, satan? Does it make clear sense to say - "satan derives his power from satan"? That’s redundant.

So, in the end, my problem is  - how do I deal with these scriptures in the proper context, which describe Apollyon and the bottomless pit, while making a distinction between this Apollyon and satan as being in separate places at the same time, and as being separate entities with distinct roles and tasks under a common evil kingdom?

Please help me out scripturally to clear up these verses my friends because I am hungry for the truth.

Thanks brothers.
I am eagerly wanting to see what Tom has to say. I pray he is feeling up to the task as far as his health is concerned because I have no doubt his mind is far more than sufficient, and his knowledge of the scriptures is over whelming.

If this topic is too disruptive, please delete it and I will go onto some other topic.
I want to remain here with my friends and I do not want to be seen as a trouble maker.

Thanks brothers.

John

11  Theology / General Theology / Re: antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 08, 2009, 07:24:12 AM
Hello brother!
Thank you for your kind words. I have been praying for your health also on a nightly basis.

I just want to add that I hope I am not causing any discontent with this post because that is certainly the last thing I want to do.
I'm really trying to make sense of these scriptures in a literal context and when I read the scriptures in relation to Apollyon and the bottomless pit, and his relationship and involvement as described in Revelation, I find it very difficult to dismiss the scriptural reality that Apollyon and satan, the dragon are separate evil entities with satan as the top dog as it were.

I kept insisting in my own mind that, no, this Apollyon was not, could not be the antichrist because everyone knows that is satan's role...however, I have come to a position where I am forced to admit the scriptures seem to be telling a different reality - that satan is still the evil king culprit who has, and is attempting to usurp God, yet the methods and players satan uses in order to attain this unattainable goal may not be as simplistic as I may have understood them to be.

I want to be clear though - I am not saying this is THE TRUTH, I am just trying to let His Word speak exclusively with as little of my own fallible human interpretations and understanding as possible.
If I have made a clear scriptural mistake, then I want to know about it form whoever can teach me, because i am not interested in "my" truth, I am only interested in His truth.

Take care my brother.

John
12  Theology / General Theology / Re: antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 07, 2009, 11:17:16 PM
Hello brother, great to be back here with you all.

Quote
We must keep in mind that it is satan himself that would make himself to be God just as The AntiChrist does. It is satan, the abomination that maketh desolate, that stands in the Holy Place.

yes, I agree, it is satan. Scriptures tell us that the antichrist, the false prophet, and beast all get their power from satan. So, although it may appear that I was relaying that the antichrist is in his own right the fake Christ, what I am actually saying is that antichrist is merely another staff of satan which he turns into a snake.
In other words, satan is behind all evil and controls all fallen angels, which are evil spirits.
It's a parell argument that God and Jesus are one in the same. So as Jesus is God, so is Apolyon satan.
The difference is that God and Jesus have excluse Holy power to make this trinity real and truthful, whereas satan cannot, and so satan uses deceit and lies to accomplish his false prophetic and scriptural realities.

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

2 thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

So although it is Apollyon, the king evil angel who scriptures, not me, clearly tell us is now locked up in the bottomless pit who incarnates this "antichrist" he gets his power from satan, which is also scripturally sound...

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Now, I'm never going to claim to be dogmatically correct on any scripture my friend, and so when I read these scriptures I am trying to make literal sense of them because I am of the firm belief that all scripture is to be understood literally.
Yes, I know there are parables, and figurative language in scriptures, and I am not saying every word must be taken literal. I am saying we must understand scriptures literally.

For example; when Rev scripture describes horns, and heads of a dragon, we don't need to wonder what this means because we are given the literal meaning directly from the scriptures themselves....

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

In my humble opinion, the scriptures clearly state that there is a "king angle" named Apollyon who is trapped in the bottomless pit. This king angel Apollyon is not satan, we can understand this because satan is in Heaven making vile accusations against mankind to God day and night. satan later gets into war with Michael and his angles and satan loses and is thrown down to earth along with one third of the angels of Heaven who decided foolishly to follow satan over the God of eternity!! Idiots!! LOL!

I believe satan, in Heaven pretends to be God the Father. His chief angel Apollyon, is used by satan as the false Jesus, and the false prophet will be the religious face of this unholy trinity.

I also believe this false prophet will be the Islamic Mahdi, which goes along very well with your 666 information.

In the end, satan is in complete control of all his minions, and so yes, it is satan who is the false Jesus.

Quote
As for those that hold the story of the giants (sons of God) being an offspring of the fallen angels and yet somehow are Goliath and kin. Take note of when these giants were supposedly destroyed and when Goliath existed. Brother, there is clear scripture to show that the "sons of God" spoken of were not giant offspring of fallen angels. If I can find it again there is a fairly detailed thread on that here.

OK, let me make myself clear.
I'm not saying the sons of God are offspring of fallen angels and human women.
I'm saying the sons of God mated with human women and the hybrid offspring of that unholy union were giants, men of renown.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown. (giants were born through this evil union - Goliath)

This scripture makes a distinction between "sons of God" and daughters of "men"
Therefore, this scripture tells us that angels and human women actually had children which became "mighty men of renown"


Great discussing here again.
Take care my brother.

John
13  Theology / General Theology / Re: antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 07, 2009, 08:08:23 PM
OK, to state the obvious here...we still do not know who the actual "man" will be, but now I better understand who this king angel from the Abyss is.
I was somewhat confused prior to understanding these scriptures, and often wondered if this king angle, Abaddon, Apollyon was satan, but that scenario never really came together to form a scripturally cohesive picture. Now it does because I understand that Apollyon and satan are not one in the same.

It's also notworthy to notice how simillar Apolyon and the Greek god Apollo are.
It leads me to wonder about who these evil hybrid "giants" and "men of renown" may have been.
Is there more to these Greek gods than myth???

Here are some scriptural descriptions of the antichrist...

“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those that are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.”
 (2 Thessalonians 2:9,10)


The Antichrist is a man - Daniel 7:24,25

He will confirm a covenant for seven years - Daniel 9:27

He will arise among ten kings - Daniel 7:8

This ten nation union will be a revived Roman Empire - Daniel 2:44

He will uproot three kings - Daniel 7:8

His ten nation union will merge into a world government which he will dominate - Revelation 13:1,

He will ascend to power on a platform of world peace and will by peace destroy many - Daniel 8:25

He will be promoted by a miracle working religious partner - Revelation 13:11,12

The beast was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit and go into perdition (destruction) - Revelation 17:8

The world government over which the Antichrist rules will be a socialist government - Revelation 17:3

The Antichrist will be preceded by seven kings. He will be the eighth, and will be ‘of’ the seven - Revelation 17:11

He will have a mouth speaking great things - Daniel 7:8

His look will be more stout than his fellows - Daniel 7:20

He will be of fierce countenance - Daniel 8:23

He will understand dark sentences - Daniel 8:23

He will cause craft to prosper - Daniel 8:25

He apparently assumes world-dominating power three and a half years after he confirms the covenant. He then will continue his reign 42 months - Revelation 13:5

The Abomination of Desolation is the event that signals the beginning of his final 42 months - Daniel 9:27

He opposes God - 2 Thessalonians 2:4

He shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods - Daniel 11:36

He exalts himself above all that is called God - 2 Thessalonians 2:4

He will sit in the Temple of God - 2 Thessalonians 2:4

He claims to be God - 2 Thessalonians 2:4

He will take away the daily sacrifice at the time of the Abomination of Desolation - Daniel 11:31

He shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain - Daniel 11:45

It was given him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them - Revelation 13:7

 He will make war with the saints three and a half years - Daniel 7:21, 25

 The time of the Great Tribulation launched by the Antichrist begins at the Abomination of Desolation - Matthew 24:15,21

 During this time he will scatter the power of the holy people - Daniel 12:7

He will rule a terrible and strong kingdom - Daniel 7:7

 Power was given him over every tribe and people and tongues and nations - Revelation 13:7

 His kingdom will devour the whole earth - Daniel 7:23

Arms shall stand on his part - Daniel 11:31

He shall attack the mighty fortresses with the help of a foreign god - Daniel 11:39

 He will think to change times and laws: and they will be given into his hands for three and a half years - Daniel 7:25

 He shall prosper - Daniel 8:24

 He shall not regard the god of his fathers - Daniel 11:37

He will not regard the desire of women - Daniel 11:37
The mark of the beast will be the mark of his name - Revelation 14:11

The number of the beast is 666 - Revelation 13:18

666 will be the number of his name - Revelation 15:2

All that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, except those whose names are written in the lamb’s Book of Life - Revelation 13:8

 The Antichrist will have an image -Revelation 15:2

 His coming is after the coming of Satan -2 Thessalonians 2:9

He will fight against Jesus Christ at Armageddon - Revelation 17:14

He will stand against the Prince of princes - Daniel 8:25

The Lord will destroy him with the spirit of His mouth - 2 Thessalonians 2:8   

The Lord will consume him with the splendour of His coming - 2 Thessalonians 2:8

The Beast is cast alive into the Lake of Fire - Revelation 19:20

He will be tormented day and night for ever and ever - Revelation 20:10   


John
14  Theology / General Theology / Re: antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 07, 2009, 07:55:54 PM
First of all, the fallen angels who are imprisoned in the Abyss until the end are found in scriptures here…

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown. (giants were born through this evil union - Goliath)

Now read Jude again…
Jude 3 . 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home --these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

So when we put these verses together we see that disobedient angels left their first estate in Heaven to come to earth and mate with human women, which produced a half human half evil spirit hybrid known as giants, and men of renown.
These hybrids are the reason disobedience and evil spread so quickly amongst God’s creation, and the reason for the flood.
So God punished both His creation - men, and these now “fallen” angles.
The angels who were involved in this sin were placed in the Abyss until the final seven years when they will be released Rev 9:1-2 and led by their “king angel” the antichrist.

Lets read more…
Rev. 11:6 These men [the two witnesses] have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. 7Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.

The following verse further identifies who this “king angel” is from the Abyss, or bottomless pit…

Revelation 17:8  "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition; and the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will marvel to behold the beast, because it was and is not and is to come."

So, Rev 17:8 describes the antichrist who comes to Earth after being released from the bottomless pit, signs a seven year peace deal Dan 9:27 then is killed Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death;

Then, antichrist fakes the resurrection…

and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

This is described in Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

is not” the beginning of his seven year reign
is not” during his fake death.
shall ascend out of the bottomless pit” his reappearance and incarnation of the “king” angel’s evil spirit. It’s at this point, at the half way mark of the seven years that the spirit of the king angle, or Apollyon, actually is released from the pit and incarnates the antichrist’s human body. If we read through scriptures carefully, we see that the first two and a half years of the antichrist’s reign are a time of global happiness, peace and prosperity.
However, after Apollyon gains full control things turn sour and the whole world is engulfed in war, and wrath.

OK, so where is satan during this whole time?
Satan is busy accusing men before God day and night until he is cast out by Michael…
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Rev 12:8  And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
 
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

OK, let’s add it all up.
Satan and the antichrist are separate fallen angels. Satan is in total control of ALL demonic fallen angels, including Apollyon, the “king angel” of the Abyss.
Satan gives power to Apollyon as the antichrist, satan also gives power to the beast and the false prophet.

We know they are separate because the beast and the false prophet are tossed into the lake of fire, whereas satan is imprisoned in the bottomless pit (Abyss) for a thousand years, then after one final rebellion, satan is tossed into the lake of fire along with the beast and the false prophet.

So satan has done a terrific piece of “magic” or slight of hand by imitating the Holy Trinity with his own unholy trinity - the antichrist, the false prophet, and the beast.
This evil angel will cause many to lose any hope of salvation, and as a result he will have plenty of company in Hell to go along with his other two buddies and all other evil spirits.

So, we know that the evil spirit of the antichrist is right now in the bottomless pit, or Abyss. he is the king angel of those who are also imprisoned there with him. he will incarnate his fleshly component at the halfway mark of the final seven year wrath of God. he will be captured at the return of Lord Jesus and His armies from Heaven (faithful Raptured saints - us!) and will be tossed into the lake of fire along with the false prophet.
satan will be tossed into the Abyss when Jesus returns for a thousand years. Then, satan will be released for a short time to do his evil once again, then Jesus will toss him into the lake of fire for eternity!

Good to be back!

John
15  Theology / General Theology / antichrist - who is he - where is he now... on: July 07, 2009, 07:37:54 PM
Hello my dear friends.
I am sorry I have been absent for such a long time.
It took a lot longer to recover from my surgery than I had expected, but I am feeling pretty good today, and so I just had to get back to my cyber family!!

Before I continue I want to let you all know that I am due for one more small surgery, and will let you know as soon as I know the exact date for that one…

OK…
I have an exciting post because I have just very recently made a fantastic scriptural discovery.

It seems like on an almost daily basis I read somewhere, or have some discussion with fellow believers, and even fence sitters as to the identity and location of the coming antichrist.

I’ve heard them all from Nero to Hitler to Stalin to Poll Pot to Reagan to Bush Sr and Jr, to various foreign possibilities including British royalty to Bin there done that Laden and most recently of course it must be Obama!

I never made any claims to know simply because I did not know!
I didn’t believe the true identity or location could be made because the scriptures clearly tells us that man of sin will not be revealed until there be a “falling away” (more on this term later) first, so I never made any guesses.

Well as I related, I have made an eye opening discovery and my source is scripture exclusively.
Have a look at Rev 9:1-11... And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key of the shaft of the Abyss; 2 he opened the shaft of the Abyss and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. 3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth; 4 they were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green growth or any tree, but only those of mankind who have not the seal of God upon their foreheads; 5 they were allowed to torture them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torture was like the torture of a scorpion, when it stings a man. 6 And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death will fly from them. 7 In appearance the locusts were like horses arrayed for battle; on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces, 8 their hair like women's hair, and their teeth like lions' teeth; 9 they had scales like iron breastplates, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle. 10 They have tails like scorpions, and stings, and their power of hurting men for five months lies in their tails. 11 They have as king over them the angel of the Abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon. [which both mean Destroyer]

So “the” antichrist is a “king angel” of all the evil spirits who are presently locked up in the Abyss. Who are these?
Well, we find out who these “fallen angels” are from scripture…

Jude 3 . 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home --these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.
Hmmm, so which angels “did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home”  again, scriptures give us the answer…
First, let’s find out exactly what this “Abyss” or “bottomless pit” is all about…

Remember when Jesus was driving out demons from a man in Luke 8?….

Luke 8:28-31 KJV “He cried out and fell down before him and with a loud voice said, “What have I to do with thee, Jesus, Son of God Most High. I beseech thee, torment me not.”

(For he had commanded the evil spirit to come out of him).

And Jesus asked him saying; “What is thy name?” And he said, “Legion,” for many demons were entered into him.

And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into THE DEEP.”   
 The NIV translates the last phrase thus;

“And they begged him repeatedly not to order them to go into THE ABYSS.”   

So demons are real, they have the ability to posess some of us who are not faithful believers, and they can be driven out through the the power of the Holy Spirit.
The most important thing in relation to this post is that these demons fear being sent to the Abyss!!
Therefore, from scripture we can know for certain that the Abyss holds some demons, or evil spirits including the “king angel” of the Abyss, and there are also some demons who are still roaming free on Earth…why is this, and who are these “free” demons and who are these imprisoned demons who will not be released until the final seven year wrath of God?   

TO CONTINUE 
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