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56716  Theology / Debate / Re:Can you smell what the Rock is cooking? on: February 09, 2004, 11:07:38 AM
Interesting idea.  Will hot topics be moved to this forum if they get too hot, or is this the place to put up your theological dukes, where one can float like a butterfly and preach like a bee  Undecided ?

The Hot kitchen...can you smell what the rock is cookin? lol

Grace and Peace!

Oklahoma Howdy to 2nd Timothy,

 Grin  Both. We are hoping this frees the rest of the board from heated debates that many users don't want to see or read.

Love In Christ,
56717  Fellowship / You name it!! / Re:Featured User of the Week on: February 09, 2004, 05:51:17 AM
 Grin  Example:

When I was a child, only the strong and the determined went to school.

All of the books were written on stone tablets.

My "Big Chief" notepad weighed 40 pounds, and YES, there was a "Big Chief" notepad.

We used #2 chisels to make notes.

We walked barefoot in hip-high snow 10 miles to and from school, up hill - BOTH WAYS! We never trimmed our toenails - we just folded them under for protection of the bottom of our feet.

We ate off the land and only drank milk when we were able to catch the cow.


Is this what you had in mind?   Grin


56718  Theology / General Theology / Reflecting on Grace: Humility and Faith on: February 09, 2004, 05:18:10 AM
Hoekstra Devotion - February 9

Reflecting on Grace: Humility and Faith:

For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich . . . Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God . . . If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.  (2Co_8:9, 2Co_3:5, Rom_10:17 and Luk_9:23)

Let's take a reflective look at humility and faith. We have repeatedly encountered these two relational realities. This is to be expected, since "God . . . gives grace to the humble" (Jam_4:6), and "we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand" (Rom_5:2).

In our first devotional study, humility and faith were evident. "For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich."  In order for Jesus to rescue us from our desperate situation, He had to become poor. When He hung on the cross for us, He took the spiritual poverty of our sin and guilt upon Himself. What a humbling picture of our innate spiritual condition. Basically, we had to agree with the Lord, humbling ourselves before Him, asking for His help. Additionally, faith was involved. We had to believe that through this death on our behalf, we could become spiritually rich, that is, forgiven of sin and righteous in His sight.

Humility and faith were later seen as vital for walking in this new life in Christ. "Not that we are sufficientof ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God."  The adequacy we need for Christian living does not originate in us. Actually, we must not think of "anything as being from ourselves." How humbling to learn, even as born again believers, that we need the Lord in everything. Then, how do we find the necessary adequacy? This is where faith pertains. "Our sufficiency is from God." This is truth that we are to believe.

When we examined Christian discipleship, humility and faith again appeared. "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me" (Luk_9:23). Jesus' call to come and follow Him can only be received by those who will say, "No to self" and "Death to self." This is humiliating to the self-life, to think it is not good enough, to admit that it belongs on the cross. This is especially humbling when we see that these are to be our daily confessions. The rest of the issue is settled by faith, trusting in Jesus each step of every day.

Dear Heavenly Father, give me this perspective on the Christian life. Teach me, Lord, touch my heart, that I might be willing to walk humbly before You day by day. Build my faith, Lord, that I might turn to You in dependence step by step throughout each day. Father, I humbly trust in You to do this work in my life, through Christ, my Lord, Amen.
56719  Theology / General Theology / More on Faith and Grace on: February 09, 2004, 12:25:22 AM
Hoekstra Devotion - February 8

More on Faith and Grace:

The just shall live by faith . . . So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God . . . I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him.  (Rom_1:17, Rom_10:17, and 2Ti_1:12)

The entire Christian walk is designed to be lived by faith. "The just shall live by faith." Every step of every day, every issue that we face is to be addressed in reliance upon the Lord. This path of trust accesses the grace that God desires to shower upon us. Remember, faith is what corresponds with grace. "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace" (Rom_4:16). Trying our hardest does not ensure God's grace working in and though us. Attempting to be passive does not bring forth a display of His grace. However, humbly trusting in the Lord, whether taking action or patiently waiting, will always result in His grace undertaking for us.

Yet, how does one specifically learn to live by faith? Rom_10:17 is very helpful here. "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." As we get into the scriptures, desiring to hear from the Lord, faith has opportunity to grow. Through the word, God speaks to us about Himself and His ways. He tells us His plans and purposes. He provides insights into reality. He drives away illusions and misconceptions. He offers promises and assurances. As we are thereby getting to know who the Lord is and what He wants to do, we are stirred to trust Him to work these matters into our lives. We face trials or opportunities, and we trust Him to be faithful. We learn of our own inadequacy and are driven to His sufficiency. We look to the Lord in daily personal issues, and He proves faithful. Through it all, our faith continues to grow in response to what the Lord is revealing to us and is doing for us. This is God's grace at work, because His word is"the word of His grace" (Act_20:32).

This process illustrates the relational reality of faith. Faith is not something we can produce. It results from getting to know the Lord more and more. Paul spoke of this pattern in part of his testimony. "I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him" (2Ti_1:12). As the years passed, Paul was getting acquainted with the Lord in whom he had first believed. Then, as this relationship with Christ developed, Paul was increasingly convinced of his master's ability to handle any matter that he would entrust into His hands. All the while, this faith that was developing in Paul was drawing upon the resources of God's grace.

O Lord, my God,I want to live daily by faith in You. Please work in my heart a growing appetite for Your word, that my faith may develop, as I am hearing from You. Forgive me for taking matters into my own hands and not looking to You. Show me situations that I need to entrust to You. This I humbly pray, in Jesus name, Amen.
56720  Theology / General Theology / Faith and Grace on: February 07, 2004, 07:36:39 AM
Hoekstra Devotion - February 7

Faith and Grace:

Through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand . . . therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace . . . the just shall live by faith.  (Rom_5:2,  Rom_4:16, and Rom_1:17)

As noted previously, faith accesses the grace of God. "Through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand." When we trusted in Jesus as our Lord and Savior, we were born again and enjoyed our initial access to grace. God's intends for His children to continue accessing grace day by day throughout their years of growth and service here on earth. Every time that we face any matter in our lives with dependence upon the Lord Jesus, we are drawing from the bottomless ocean of God's grace. Thereby, His grace becomes our resource for living.

The resources of God's grace cannot be earned, deserved, or produced by man. They must be freely provided by the Lord. From beginning to end, the saving, rescuing, transforming work of God's grace is "the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Eph_2:8-9). This truth highlights the strategic nature of faith. Only faith accords with grace. "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace." Faith alone is compatible with grace. Any other approach will not fit with grace.

This marks another profound distinction between law and grace. "Yet the law is not of faith, but 'The man who does them shall live by them' " (Gal_3:12). The law is about performance. Those who live by the law are left to their own resources to work up a life that measures up to the perfect standards of God. Those who daily put their faith in the Lord Jesus for the issues of life access grace for godly living.

It is God's will that we live our entire lives by faith, which accesses grace. "The just shall live by faith." This truth is comprehensive. It applies to every aspect of our lives. When we arise in the morning, entrust the day into the Lord's care and guidance.

As we communicate with our families, depend upon Jesus for love and patience. In our drive to the office, pray in faith concerning the opportunities and challenges that may await us. If a crisis develops unexpectedly, immediately cry out to the Lord for peace and direction. When times of Bible study and worship approach, exercise faith toward God to make them spiritually genuine and personally effective. Whatever, whenever, whoever," The just shall live by faith."

Dear faithful Lord, I long to live by faith more and more as each day dawns. I see that this is the only way I can access Your glorious grace. Lord, I need Your grace constantly. No other resource will suffice. Too often I am striving by my best performance. What weariness and failure always results. Show me the areas of my life where I am not trusting in You, that I might look to You anew. In Your gracious name I pray, Amen.
56721  Theology / General Theology / More on Humility and Grace on: February 07, 2004, 07:34:10 AM
Hoekstra Devotion - February 6

More on Humility and Grace:

Be clothed with humility, for "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble" . . . And whoever exalts himself will be abased, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.  (1Pe_5:5 and Mat_23:12)
The Lord wants humility to be the spiritual attire that adorns our character. "Be clothed with humility." This is crucial, since "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble." We cannot live by grace unless we are willing to walk in humility. Any other approach is some form of pride, which always meets God's resistance. These are absolutes that every person must face. "Whoever exalts himself will be abased, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." The scriptures describe numerous individuals who demonstrate these truths.

Nebuchadnezzar, exalted himself. "Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for a royal dwelling by my mighty power and for the honor of my majesty?" (Dan_4:30). God opposed this self-exaltation by driving the king out into the fields to eat grass like an animal. Eventually, this banished king looked to heaven, and the Lord restored him to the throne. Then, magnifying the true King, he proclaimed the great lesson he had learned. "Now I, Nebuchadnezzar,  praise and extol and honor the King of heaven . . .  And those who walk in pride He is able to abase" (Dan_4:37).

Manasseh, while king in Jerusalem, also exalted himself. He did so in a most wicked manner, polluting God's temple with idolatry. "He built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD . . . He even set a carved image, the idol which he had made, in the house of God" (2Ch_33:5, 2Ch_33:7). In doing so, he enticed the people of God into untold abominations. "So Manasseh seduced Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to do more evil than the nations whom the LORD had destroyed before the children of Israel" (2Ch_33:9). As a consequence of this prideful rebellion, the Lord had Manasseh taken away captive into Babylon. Then, he humbled himself before God. In spite of the king's arrogant disobedience, the Lord heard his prayer and restored him to the throne. "Now when he was in affliction, he implored the LORD his God, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers, and prayed to Him; and He received his entreaty, heard his supplication, and brought him back to Jerusalem into his kingdom." (2Ch_33:12-13)

Truly, everyone who lifts himself up in pride will be brought low. Conversely, any person who walks in humility will be lifted up to liberation and blessing.

Dear King of heaven and earth, I am convicted of times when I behaved proudly, like these two kings. That has always led to my spiritual defeat and bondage. I thank You for drawing my heart toward humility. I humbly turn to You to pour out Your grace upon me, as You did upon them. Through Christ I pray, Amen
56722  Entertainment / Laughter (Good Medicine) / Re:Laughter - Good Medicine on: February 06, 2004, 09:59:32 PM
Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,

Some of these work pretty well for school teachers on Fridays after teaching for 30 years.   Grin  I just say "Yes", salute, and go do what I'm told on Friday night. There always has to be 2 or 3 kids in the class that pinch the absolute last nerve on that poor teacher by Friday. Two more years and she can retire. In the meantime, I'm the only one close enough to choke on the weekend.   Grin  It's best to talk softly, not make eye contact, and simply sit quietly until you are given orders on something to do.   Grin

In Christ,
56723  Fellowship / For Men Only / Re:Procrastination on: February 06, 2004, 05:30:36 PM
Hey!  I like dogs, too!

Oklahoma Howdy to JudgeNot,

I do too. I have a solid brown one I call spot.   Grin

Love In Christ,
56724  Prayer / Prayer Requests / Re:Prayer for Abducted 11 yr old girl on: February 06, 2004, 09:42:02 AM
All we can do is remember the family, friends, and police officers in our prayers. It is a pain-filled nightmare that never goes away. There will be a lot more pain in the trial.

Dear Heavenly Father, we ask that you give comfort and peace to the family and friends of Carlie Brucia. Father, they have broken hearts and needs that only You can provide for. Father, we ask for guidance and wisdom for the investigators, officers, and courts in bringing her murderer to justice. Father, we pray that Your will be done. We ask these things in the precious Name of Jesus, our Lord and Saviour.  Amen.
56725  Theology / Bible Study / Re:The Church's job? on: February 06, 2004, 02:25:59 AM
Oklahoma Howdy to All,

Good thoughts and great discussion. Thanks for the beautiful portions of Scripture.

I'm almost sure that I've seen the same video about the tribe who were thankful to finally know the name of The God they wanted to worship. This is an excellent addition to the accountability question.

As a small child, I remember overhearing discussions between my dad and my uncle, both preachers, when one of the kids did something wrong. They discussed an age or maturity of accountability. I didn't understand what they were talking about then, but I remember portions of those conversations now that the question has come up and I feel a burden on my heart to find out.

I've heard all kinds of opinions on infants and what will happen if they die. Some Christians qualify their answers with whether or not the parents were Christians. Some say the infant goes to hell, regardless of faith from their parents. Some say that aborted babies go to hell. Some say the infant belongs to Jesus, and that would be my opinion, specifically after the crucifixion of Jesus on the cross. However, I can't find the Biblical teaching to support or deny my opinion.

A developing thought involves the Law and Grace. I'm still searching. I hope that I say this in a way that makes sense. Can an infant be condemned under the law? The law leads to a knowledge of sin. (Bear with me here) If there is no law or understanding of the law for this infant, could there be a spiritual death sentence involved if they physically die? We know that we can't make this infant understand the Gospel of the Grace of God, but is this infant the recipient of God's love and grace? I know that I didn't say this very well. Let me study some more with the additional thoughts and Scriptures you have provided and try again.

Love In Christ,
56726  Fellowship / For Men Only / Re:Procrastination on: February 06, 2004, 12:35:17 AM
I think that I'll wait and see if anyone gets this thread off-topic.   Wink
56727  Entertainment / Laughter (Good Medicine) / Re:Laughter - Good Medicine on: February 06, 2004, 12:30:58 AM
PC Pot:

A Dell employee got busted for pot in Manhattan recently. President Bush and many conservative lawmakers are surprisingly upset, as they have always pushed the view that marijuana is a Gateway drug.
56728  Entertainment / Laughter (Good Medicine) / Re:Laughter - Good Medicine on: February 06, 2004, 12:28:27 AM
The CIA Opening for an Assassin (An old one - but good one)

The CIA had an opening for an assassin. After all of the background checks, interviews, and testing were done there were three finalists — two men and one woman. For the final test, the CIA agents took one of the men to a large metal door and handed him a gun.

“We must know that you will follow your instructions, no matter what the circumstances. Inside this room you will find your wife sitting in a chair. You have to kill her.” The first man said.“You can’t be serious. I could never shoot my wife,”

The agent replies, “Then you’re not the right man for this job."

The second man was given the same instructions. He took the gun and went into the room. All was quiet for about five minutes. Then the man came out with tears in his eyes. “I tried, but I can’t kill my wife.” The agent replies, “You don’t have what it takes. Take your wife and go home.”

Finally, it was the woman’s turn. Only she was told to kill her husband. She took the gun and went into the room. Shots were heard, one shot after another. They heard screaming, crashing, banging on the walls. After a few minutes, all was quiet. The door opened slowly and there stood the woman. She wiped the sweat from her brow and said, “You guys didn’t tell me the gun was loaded with blanks. So I had to beat him to death with the chair.”
56729  Entertainment / Laughter (Good Medicine) / Re:Laughter - Good Medicine on: February 06, 2004, 12:24:37 AM
Kofi Annan’s New Year's UN Resolutions:

Be brave -- ask US for more money.
Salt and pepper beard more.

Apply for US citizenship.

Lose weight -- no more delicious McDonald's cultural hegemony!

Bad-mouth US in front of Middle Eastern diplomats more.

Daily affirmation: "I am not the tool of the world's sole superpower!"

Make the UN more bureaucratized.

Talk to US President more in broader terms - "African People Hungry," "Arabs Hate You," "Germany no likee war. Now." Perhaps speak slower.

Finally count out Third World dues change jar.

Resolve to cut the word “Secretary” from title. “General Annan” catchier.


Switch lame blue helmets of peacekeeping forces to ninja masks.

Do charter bi-lines allow the UN to stockpile Weapons of Mass Destruction of their own? Could be help when negotiating with uppity Western Nations. Look into it this year. FOR REAL THIS TIME!!!!
56730  Entertainment / Laughter (Good Medicine) / Re:Laughter - Good Medicine on: February 06, 2004, 12:21:36 AM
The Wrong Way  (An old one - but still good):

As a senior citizen was driving down the freeway, his car phone rang.

Answering, he heard his wife's voice urgently warning him, "Herman, I just heard on the news that there's a car going the wrong way on Route 280. Please be careful!"

"It's not just one car," said Herman, "It's hundreds of them!"
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