I know its not really our place to judge whether people are saved or not.. but we all know that there are many people who go to church because its the "right thing to do" or because they were brought up with it or whatever, but don't really get the point of it. Its more of a religion and tradition than a relationship.

I know we need to seek the Holy Spirit's guidance on this matter.. but if anyone has any advice on this it would be much appreciated. sometimes I feel that being bold and quoting scriptures is definately not the answer... its a tough one, and of course only the Spirit can do the convicting.. but I would love to be better at this. Trouble is the hear the word all the time and it seems to have lost its power to convict them.

Any ideas?

I don't know about filling a computer with His Spirit, at least not in the same way He would a human. But He is certainly able to control anything via His Spirit. Who or what can resist the Spirit of the living God?

Then wrent back to shooting each other the next day.

WOW

also..

Why?

lol

Perhaps I should have said "well known , popular churches".

You know, I can't remember if I've mentioned this on another thread or not.. but the whole subject of prayng for pets reminds me....

I was watchign a snippet of songs of praise the other day because a guy I know was on it. It featured one of the most well known large churches in the world. They were interviewing people from the church, and one woman (famous lady) said how her pet dog got saved by responding to an altar call! I just thought "what?!?!?!!?" And they didn't even edit it out!

She said the pastor blessed the dog in the service etc as it lined up with all the other people!

Well, either she's barking mad or the whole church is barking up the wrong tree.... makes you wonder if there's any normal christians left in the large churches these days!

No need to wonder where the expressions "Fat Cats" and "Cool Cats" come from.

Didn't the Egyptians hold cats in very high regard?


My cat was very fussy over its food. So much so that it had the same thign as we did a lot of the time! Was very big and strong until it got ill towards the end of its life. Had a lovely glossy thick coat ( for a shorthair) due to all the fresh fish skins it ate probably. Its other favourites were chicken korma and rice pudding.. oh yeah.. and rum n raisin ice cream. Not sure how we discovered this though.. lol

John 15:10  If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.


I find the single factor that has been most helpful to me in forgiving and loving others ( apart from the power of the Spirit!) is realising that all people are sinful. We should expect people to hurt us and sin against us and God. That is human nature. When you realise all people are essentially the same, and wicked at heart, the same as you are ( and me! ) it makes not judging and forgiving so much easier.

["all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose".]

I apologise in advance for the large quotation here.. but I think its necessary.

I would like first of all to make something clear.... God didn't rest because he was tired... he didn't stop his work because it wasn't good enough either... unlike us... we must cease our works because....

Isaiah 64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

That rest of God, is at least in part the ceasing of our fleshly works, and attempts at righteousness. Allowing Jesus to be our all. Letting the Holy Spirit do His work in us. That means daily keeping ourselves in that rest by not trying to be righteous in our own strength.

Gal 3:2  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Like Abraham we must believe God for our righteousness.... what more rest is there than to cease our fleshly striving to be better than others... to be accepted as a child of God by faith in Christ? Knowing that "all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose".

I believe Gods rest can and does include manifestations of God's Holy Spirit.. and perhaps can include some of the stuff that Gary mentioned, like Stephens state at his stoning...but I do believe it is a place of spiritual rest. Not necessarily physical comfort... I'd love to believe that Stephen felt nothing when being stoned, but my guess is that he felt the pain like everyone else would. The Holy Spirit's mission with us on earth is to present us as a spotless bride to Christ... to enamour us with Him.. to glorify Christ and cause us to love Him more and more for who He is. The more we know Jesus personally the more rest we have. I cannot give a scripture for that last statement, but I do believe it is true from personal experience. The first thing that happens when we get out of touch with/ out of communion with God is that we get restless and lose our peace. I've said enough..


I think Hebrews explains the rest issue well....


Heb 3:7 ¶  Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8  Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9  When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10  Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11  So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12  Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.13  But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14  For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15  While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16  For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17  But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18  And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19  So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Heb 4:1 ¶  Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2  For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3  For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4  For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5  And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6  Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8  For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10  For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 ¶  Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

How long did you watch him to find out that he never sinks? hehe

Good book dealing with alcohol and substance abuse is the "Cross and the Switchblade" by David Wilkerson. Gives a good example of the effects of drugs and how God can deal with addiction.

I buried my cat the other day. ( It was dead). As I did so I remembered the funny things he used to do. Its funny, on the first page of the thread someone mentioned not all cats eating birds.. the first day I had him at home ( he had never been outdoors or seen a bird before) he swatted at a clay model of a bluetit on the mantlepiece and broke it! I had to laugh. Natrual instincts and all that. At christmas my parents would put model birds on their Christmas tree, he would launch himself into the tree and drag all the lights off it to get at the birds heheh


One last insight...

Has it occurred to anyone that cats and dogs in general resemble types of people..

To me dog's generally resemble followers of christ.. they are humble, obedient and will go to any length to please their master.

Cats are proud and selfish and generally only do anything if it benefits them at that time. Doesn't stop me loving them though hehe.

Sorry mate, I didn't necessarily mean that my comments applied to you and 2T.. was more of a general comment really. Addressing the fear and obsession you find all over the church in these days.

Sadly schools also teach evolution as a fact aswell. Its the worlds faulty framework. Evolution = no moral absolutes= anything goes. Science lessons at school have become a corrupt mixture of fact and total fiction.

When I was at school, the homosexual promotion hadn't really come inot full effect, we weren't taught about it, but only a few years later I hear that its widely promoted over here in England. It just shows how quickly things degenerate doesn't it.

Nice post Bro Love. That last verse contains the key to successful life in Jesus.

"unless you become like little children"...

The stuff kids say can sometimes be so profound... they don't have the hang ups we adults have. Bless them.