The mark of the Holy Spirit's guidance is a changed life and a changed heart, producing a bride that is nearing the spotless perfection that Jesus wants from us. If your study of the word doesnt change you, then you need to spend more time in the prescence of Christ, quietly waiting for that small voice to speak to you, when all other voices have got tired of clamouring for your attention.

Absorbing the Word is always profitable I believe, whether we are just reading it casually on the train or if we are doing an in depth lengthy study. The Holy Spirit can prompt us to remember things we have read, perhaps not understanding them, then shed light on them later.

The point I believe we fall down on, is when we try to apply the Word in our lives using our own strength and wisdom. Thats when the trouble arises. Simply reading the Word is not enough, we need to apply the word in the power of the Holy Spirit. The fruit that is produced in our lives displays whether we are listening to the Holy Spirit or not.

I pray that we may all grow to know Christ and His will for us more deeply, and really allow Him to change us, and the world around us.

[2 Peter 2:]

2 Peter 2:
1 ¶  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 ¶  And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


This is so true and we can see it happening all over the world today. The image people get of Christians is one of hypocritical money grabbers who teach crazy things, mad "manifestations" or prosperity gospel junk.

As for so called prophets... in this day and age one has to be VERY careful what they listen to. As a rule, if a "prophet" does not encourage you to lead a relationship that is closer and more glorifying to Christ then he is not a true prophet inspoired by the  Spirit. The Holy Spirits ministry is to glorify Christ and to present His church as a spotless bride for Him. If the words of prophets dont work towards this goal then they are false.

Praise God that if we are walking in the light, daily communing with Jesus and listening to His Holy Spirit, He will guard our hearts from decpetion. Now is a dangerous time for the luke warm believer.

1 Tim 4:1 ¶  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2 Thess 2:1 ¶  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 ¶  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Walk closely with God and pray that he will guard us from deception.

Is ok, don't worry it was just a silly joke.. a play on the name of a rock band thats all.

Indeed Reba I'm not miserable, just grieved at my countries lack of knowledge and hunger for God.

I have just made a post on the "Christian fiction" thread which gives my opinion on this topic.

What was the first thing Satan did with Eve?

Mixed truth with fiction. God hates mixture. Read my post on the other thread for a slightly more detailed (but not lengthy) post on this.

I think its a matter of personal conviction and/ or preference here. I personally have not read, and will not read Christian fiction. I don't believe the two terms should ever be heard together. It is as if what God does in the real world is not enough for us, that we have to seek excitment related to him elsewhere. It is also a medium that is more prone to the author conveying their own opinions ( teachings of men) than the mind of God. There is , I believe, a certain danger in believers absorbing doctrine and ideas that influence their thinking when reading Christian fiction.

Sometimes it can be used to illustrate a point, and that can be good to an extent. But when whole lengthy stories are made up about.. thats a different matter. I just don't see the need to make up things relating to God. Attributing events to Him, that clearly are not the truth.

I certainly wouldn't think kless of someone for reading a Christian fiction book, but I personalyl will never read one.

Sometimes I wonder what God is thinking when he sees such division in the church over these issues, such as tongues. The articles posted presents some interesting points, but they do seem to be a little prone to ones interpretation. As someone said, they could give all the same verses as back up for a different view. It seems really that the whole argument for tongues ( and perhaps other gifts) dying out with the apostles hinges on the fact that scriptures would be completed. I'm not sure the apostles even knew that the letters they were writing would be included in one big volume called the bible. At this point I nkow some people will want to bring up these verses..

1Peter 3:15  And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


This obviously indicates that Peter sees Paul's letters as on par with scriptures available at the time. That, I don't have any problem with, its there in the Word. However I don't think it in any way indicates that the apostles had foreknowledge of the bible, as we know it, being written and compiled.



1 Corinthians 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


This verse was interpreted as referring to the completion of the scriptures, but I dont see how being known as he is also known fits with that.


8 ¶  Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9  For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.


I can see how this was interpreted to mean that the gifts will not be used in later church life.. however, "THAT" here isn't necessarily referring to the bible, or to Jesus. Perhaps the kingdom of God... the reign of Christ? Even maybe a general term encompassing everything perfect when Christ returns..

An alternative interpretation of the above passage is that the gifts will not be needed when we see Jesus face to face... much the same as pastors and evangelists will not be required. But love will always be necessary, and will continue eternally.

I know that many people have a hang up about tongues because they associate it with heretical teachings and movements. Well I agree with them on that score, it has been a center point of a lot of heretics' teachings. That does not mean that the true gift should be rejected aswell though. Heretics distort a lot of things, but we do not reject the original truths, simply because they have become associated with heretics. An example of this is giving money, heretics teach that you must tithe in order to be blessed..  "if you give £10 then God will increase that to £100 in return.. all this bible maths junk. They make merchandise of people. We reject this as heresy, and rightly so. However, just because the subject of giving has been associated with them, does that mean that we should not give? No. Does it mean that God does not reward us? Again no.

 Many heretical movements emphasise OUR RIGHTS.. you know.. claiming things in faith.. they take it to unbiblical lengths and remove God's sovereignty from the equation.. and make him a heavenly wish granter. Well that is plainly wrong, but does that mean we cannot ask anything of God in faith? Of course not.

My point here is this, do not reject spititual things because of their misuse by man.

I think Christmas is a good opportunity to witness, and people do seem more open to the gospel, AND praise God for all people that make a commitment at that time of year AND stick to it afterwards and become disciples. Despite all these good things, God has been challenging me regarding the excess of western living and the things we do that are just traditions of men, and don't actually give Christ any glory at all. As Christians who claim that Christmas should be centered on Jesus, why do we fill our houses and talk of Christmas with material things, and pagan symbolism. I have no problem with people who want to have a traditional Christmas, my own unsaved family do it. But it is something that may be good to prayerfully consider, when coming to God and seeking ways to glorify Jesus.

I suppose you could say sin is a disease.. we've all got it, and Jesus is the cure.

Not "The Vine evangelical" was it? I know people there.

Pilgrim, that was a challenging and moving article.. " the Christmas Jesus came to my house". It has made me think a lot more about where my priorities lie, do they lie with pleasing my unsaved family, with their ungodly traditions, or with my Lord and Saviour. Thanks for posting this.

Hey Patz, yes I'm right next to Sevenoaks.. its 15 minutes drive from me. Live in the woodland areas surrounding that area. You've probably hiked past my house! heh

Hey folks,

Lust is definately one of the toughest things that men face. I dont know about women, seeing as I'm male.. I think my last post on the "Can somebody help me get a girlfriend" thread in the "You name it" section may be of help. Hopefully this link will work.. its a link to the post in question


http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=5989;start=15

Rod, these posts have truly been fantastic. They really agreed with what I feel in my heart. You've given us a great practical example of walking in the Spirit. You said you were not able to live a surrendered life nowadays ( or did I misread the text?)... why do you think thats the case? Knowing what you know and having the experience you've had?

Thankyou so much for those posts.

[John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.]

Bemanisuperstar: Here's something that may help you with your issue of feeling like you have accomplished nothing, I have felt the same way before. It may not be "practical help" but I believe it to be true and more applicable for you than any quick fix solution we could give you.

You will never accomplish God's will in your life, and indeed nothing in your life will be successful unless you make Jesus the center of your life. For too long in my life I said all the right things, appeared the right way and tried to line up my thinking with God's Word. The trouble was that I wasn't walking with Jesus daily and didn't really know Him, despite my claims.

The deepest satisfaction and joy in life comes from being in Christ's prescence daily. I mean every day is a fresh day with Him. We can't rely on yesterdays relationship, or yesterdays manna if you like.

John 6:35  And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Do we believe this, or do we think that it only applies to some people who are "spiritual and have time to seek God all day.. people who are retired"?

Well the truth is until we truly understand this and make communion with Christ our priority every day, we won't come into the fullness of joy and satisfaction God intends for all His children. That means walking in the Spirit.

"Yeah but HOW do I walk in the Spirit? I keep getting told this, but nobody tells me HOW!!"

I agonised over this for too long. The answer simple, yet one of the most difficult concepts for sinful man to come to terms with. The answer is simply to spend time with Jesus every day and pray that the Holy Spirit will guide you. When you are tempted (especially by lustfull thoughts in the case of single folks) don't see the Holy Spirit as a boost to your will power.... see Him as your only power. Ask Him to give you the strength to resist the temptation, and admit and KNOW that you are not able to resist.. if we trust on our own willpower we will eventually slip up, (usually more often than we think).

Well why have I deviated from the topic so much?

I truly believe that spending time with Jesus and learning to hear the Holy Spirit's voice are the solution to much discomfort that Christians experience. Trying to do what is right will get you nowhere, because it is mans will power trying to earn God's favour by works... no matter how much we try to line up with the bible and obey God's "rules for living".. it is futile to attempt it in the flesh.


2 Corinthians 3:6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 Why did I mention temptation earlier? Because falling into sin is the main way in which we break our communion with Christ, by grieving the Holy Spirit. The more we learn to trust Him and know His prescence with us at all times the less we will grieve Him. Our worldy desires and passions become less of a restraint on us as we grow more like Christ. Ask God to make you more accutely aware of your sin, and to make you see it as He sees it.. and its effects on your relationship with Him. Daily repentance is essential.

The reason that you are so fixed upon getting a girlfriend may be because Christ is not first in your heart. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not judging you, or assessing your Christian walk... I know this only too well, I wasted years of my life i that very position, so I understand exactly how you feel. It won't change until you fully realise in your heart that Christ must be our only focus... AND put this into practice in a practical way every single day by taking time out to come before Him.. not just pouring out your prayers to Him like a wishlist, but focusing on Him... making Him the reason you come to spend time with Him, not to unload your troubles.

Forgive me if this sounds critical, harsh or judgemental. I don't presume to know your heart, but I do know what does and does not work.. what God requires of us all.. and if I have spoken out of turn then forgive me for that aswell. I truly hope that all of us reading this thread will know Him more personally each day and that we will recognise His voice more and more easily.

Bern